Any way to attain feats other than lvling? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Any way to attain feats other than lvling? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Celcious
03-25-08, 05:26 PM Is there any way to attain feats without lvling? Like going to an academy or training grounds, training with a master or just practiceing by yourself? If there is what is the time frame to learn a new feat, cost in money or exp and should there be a roll of a skill or stat as in Int to see if u learned it after the allotteed amount of time is up? Also should there be an amount cap of feats u can get at any lvl? EX:<Makeing a player age 2 years of training time but giveing them 10 feats at lvl 3 would seem to abit overpowered.> I'm DMing for the first time and was asked this question and I can't find anything about it anywhere.
Tobias_Bluesummers
03-25-08, 05:34 PM Allowing players to gain feats through training might get out of hand. The only way I have seen to getting feats, other than leveling up your character, is obtaining some magic items that give you the feats.

But really, if a character was just going to practice for 2 years, why not just go out and do some creature bashing?
Novabomb
03-25-08, 05:47 PM Yes, im pretty sure the TO board has gotten it up to 500 feats or so (without pun-pun). But as far as actual gaming situation goes...no. There are items that will emulate feats though.
KevReklaw
03-25-08, 05:48 PM i think theres a few templates that just give you feats,like vampire for example,best way other than leveling,or using a magic item,is create a ballanced template that they can gain

down fall to templates are they add to your ECL so lving will be slower
Watsyurname529
03-25-08, 06:03 PM By RAW (Rules-As-Written) there is no way to gain feats other than leveling, class progression (fighter, monk, etc.), templates (vampire, etc.), or magical items (but rarely).

Although, it is up to you whether to decide if you want allow other ways of gaining feats. One such way that I've seen suggested is to allow only certain feats to be "trained" or in a similar manner is low power feats such as the skill feats (Alertness, Sneaky, Skill Focus) among other weak feats. If you do this, take a minute to think about the effect it will have on the game. If the feat starts a feat chain, you really probably shouldn't let that be trained. One last point, if you do allow feat training, make them RP for it such as finding the place, getting accepted, or finding a teacher, etc. Bottom line, you're the DM, it's your call. Ask your players first about it and see what they think too.
Tsuul
03-25-08, 06:47 PM But really, if a character was just going to practice for 2 years, why not just go out and do some creature bashing?Because it is a lot faster to say your character trained for 2 years then it is to actually play the game.

Gold stars for everyone.
Hurray!
StevenO
03-25-08, 07:21 PM Because it is a lot faster to say your character trained for 2 years then it is to actually play the game.

Gold stars for everyone.
Hurray!
It is just as easy to say your character gained X amount of experience over those two years with no significant changes wealth.

Don't be afraid of levelling as levels are the grease that makes the system work. There are plenty of ways to increase a character's power without actually giving them levels but they do start to distort the game's perception. Sure you can take out a Great Wyrm Red Dragon with a party of 12th level characters; do that with a standard four member party created using 25-30 point buy stats and typical wealth and I'd be VERY impressed but do it with a party of eight using best 4d6 of seven times rerolling 1s and 2s stats plus the character wealth of a 20th level character and I'd probably care less.
Mark_Aged
03-25-08, 07:44 PM If feats are what you want, this thread might help. Mostly the 6th post:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=892809
unundindur
03-25-08, 08:05 PM Check out complete scoundrel. In that book you have "locations" that grant feats. The most useful are likely Iron will, and some of the skill focus feats, which can be useful as requirements. The locations work as treasure, but you (or really your GM) should check the book.

:)
Dheran
03-25-08, 09:25 PM If feats are what you want, this thread might help. Mostly the 6th post:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=892809
Thanks for acknowledging my efforts there. I hadn't finished reading Magic Item Compendium when I assembled that list, and the most recent version is here: Magic Items Granting Feats (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/JHtB/feats.html).

Many Cleric domains have feats as their granted power. A fairly long list of domains (100+) is here: Cleric Domain List (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/JHtB/domains.html). Just search for the text "feat". (They're also color-coded.)

You can gain up to 2 feats by taking flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) for your character.

unundindur pointed out that magical locations can grant feats, and there are more such locations in Complete Mage. Obviously DM cooperation is required for your character to be able to find these places.

A number of spells will let you temporarily gain feats. The most straightforward of these is Heroics (Spell Compendium), but there are others. Form-altering spells such as Alter Self generally give you any racial bonus feats of the form you assume. (Note that if you start as human you also lose the bonus feat for that race.) Mirror Move (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20000901a) lets you pick up a general feat that you've observed. Second Wind gives you the Endurance feat. Strategic Charge gives you Mobility. Look around; I'm sure you'll find others.
risner
03-26-08, 09:11 AM Is there any way to attain feats without lvling? Like going to an academy or training grounds, training with a master or just practiceing by yourself? If there is what is the time frame to learn a new feat, cost in money or exp and should there be a roll of a skill or stat as in Int to see if u learned it after the allotteed amount of time is up? Also should there be an amount cap of feats u can get at any lvl? EX:<Makeing a player age 2 years of training time but giveing them 10 feats at lvl 3 would seem to abit overpowered.> I'm DMing for the first time and was asked this question and I can't find anything about it anywhere.

Buy one of the select few items with embedded feats.

Take levels of Ardent Dillitante (Planar Handbook) which provides 3 character feats.
key
03-26-08, 11:23 AM Is there any way to attain feats without lvling?
Wishes.
risner
03-26-08, 01:42 PM Wishes.

Only by wishing for a 25k gp item that grants a feat?

Not by RAW, but the DM is free to allow it. I wouldn't for example.
Celcious
03-26-08, 01:42 PM Thanks for all the information. I'll try out makeing a templete see how it works out, and tell them about the other books they need to get if they want the feats from those books.
Nezkrul
03-26-08, 06:20 PM Because it is a lot faster to say your character trained for 2 years then it is to actually play the game.

Um, no, actually, it would be faster to have 4 encounters every day of your party's CR for those 730 days. By my calculations (which are most likely incorrect), you'd be about level 100 by that time.
navar100
03-26-08, 06:54 PM RAW no, but a DM can allow for it in some ways. (Flaws are Unearthed Arcana optional rules exception.)

A Wish/Miracle is one way it might be granted.

A DM might offer it as a story award in lieu of or part of treasure. As a reward for completeing some task, the party's patron for the adventure offers training of a feat as a reward. Player characters just get another feat by DM fiat.

The DM might allow for a magic item to give the benefit of a feat. For example, with my group as part of treasure we found some rings that provide Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, and Iron Will - one Feat to a ring :) . They were unexpected and intriguing. It was cool to have interesting out of the ordinary magic items.
key
03-27-08, 04:10 PM Only by wishing for a 25k gp item that grants a feat?

Not by RAW, but the DM is free to allow it. I wouldn't for example.
RAW:
You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)
It is within both the realm of possibility and RAW to ask for a feat, via a wish, and get exactly what you want. You may not get it, but the OP asked if there were any other ways of attaining feats, not any other guaranteed ways of attaining feats.
Tsuul
03-27-08, 05:11 PM Um, no, actually, it would be faster to have 4 encounters every day of your party's CR for those 730 days. By my calculations (which are most likely incorrect), you'd be about level 100 by that time.I was using play time as the measurement.
risner
03-27-08, 06:58 PM RAW:

It is within both the realm of possibility and RAW to ask for a feat, via a wish, and get exactly what you want. You may not get it, but the OP asked if there were any other ways of attaining feats, not any other guaranteed ways of attaining feats.

Asking for a feat is exactly something that is supposed to be perverted. In other words, you may get that feat and lose one of your other feats to compensate.
Nezkrul
03-27-08, 07:19 PM Asking for a feat is exactly something that is supposed to be perverted. In other words, you may get that feat and lose one of your other feats to compensate.

or turn you into a critter that gets that feat as a bonus feat :devil:
navar100
03-27-08, 11:11 PM Since people like to say that Feats are less powerful than a 9th level spell and Wish can duplicate up to 8th level spells, a character wishing for a feat someone of his level could have had is not asking for something greater than the power of a wish.

You need to have perspective. A PC wizard with Wish continually using Wish to get lots of feats is a problem. A DM fiat of one Feat only from a Wish is not unreasonable. However, as a once in a campaign thing where the party defeats the Great Evil and is offered a Wish/Miracle by a Solar, powerful Patron, a deity, etc., and someone wishes for Great Fortitude, Craft Miscellaneous Magic Item, Greater Weapon Specialization (when he already has Greater Weapon Focus), Extra Rage, or whatever one feat he wants is not going to mean the game is now broken to unplayability.

It's a Wish. It allows for reasonable potent things. Wishing for a feat is not wishing to win D&D. Some DMs need to get over themselves. It's not a sin to say "Yes" to a player's request/wish.
MAdgryphon
03-28-08, 01:19 AM True, but then, they players will go, hey, "Wish = Bonus feat". And once you've said yes once, you've got no precedence to say no. Now, you could then just say no anyways, but it seems like better player relations just to not cross that line at all, y'know?
navar100
03-28-08, 04:03 AM If you have players who can't appreciate the niceness of allowing a bonus feat through a Wish granted as party reward, you have problems far beyond the idea that a Wish granted a feat. DM fiat of only getting one feat via Wish will do.

A Wish is a two-way deal. DM promises not to screw over the character; player promises not to wish to win D&D. It's that simple. Wishing for a feat is then not a problem.
key
03-28-08, 10:28 AM Asking for a feat is exactly something that is supposed to be perverted.
Not everyone shares this opinion.

In other words, you may get that feat and lose one of your other feats to compensate.
Yes, but it's also possible that you get the feat you want with no negative repercussions.
risner
04-01-08, 12:45 AM Not everyone shares this opinion.

Yes, but it's also possible that you get the feat you want with no negative repercussions.

Oh boy do I want to start a feat heavy character in your game.

40+ feats in a ECL 20 game.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Celcious 03-25-08, 05:26 PM	Is there any way to attain feats without lvling? Like going to an academy or training grounds, training with a master or just practiceing by yourself? If there is what is the time frame to learn a new feat, cost in money or exp and should there be a roll of a skill or stat as in Int to see if u learned it after the allotteed amount of time is up? Also should there be an amount cap of feats u can get at any lvl? EX:<Makeing a player age 2 years of training time but giveing them 10 feats at lvl 3 would seem to abit overpowered.> I'm DMing for the first time and was asked this question and I can't find anything about it anywhere.
Tobias_Bluesummers 03-25-08, 05:34 PM	Allowing players to gain feats through training might get out of hand. The only way I have seen to getting feats, other than leveling up your character, is obtaining some magic items that give you the feats. But really, if a character was just going to practice for 2 years, why not just go out and do some creature bashing?
Novabomb 03-25-08, 05:47 PM	Yes, im pretty sure the TO board has gotten it up to 500 feats or so (without pun-pun). But as far as actual gaming situation goes...no. There are items that will emulate feats though.
KevReklaw 03-25-08, 05:48 PM	i think theres a few templates that just give you feats,like vampire for example,best way other than leveling,or using a magic item,is create a ballanced template that they can gain down fall to templates are they add to your ECL so lving will be slower
Watsyurname529 03-25-08, 06:03 PM	By RAW (Rules-As-Written) there is no way to gain feats other than leveling, class progression (fighter, monk, etc.), templates (vampire, etc.), or magical items (but rarely). Although, it is up to you whether to decide if you want allow other ways of gaining feats. One such way that I've seen suggested is to allow only certain feats to be "trained" or in a similar manner is low power feats such as the skill feats (Alertness, Sneaky, Skill Focus) among other weak feats. If you do this, take a minute to think about the effect it will have on the game. If the feat starts a feat chain, you really probably shouldn't let that be trained. One last point, if you do allow feat training, make them RP for it such as finding the place, getting accepted, or finding a teacher, etc. Bottom line, you're the DM, it's your call. Ask your players first about it and see what they think too.
Tsuul 03-25-08, 06:47 PM	But really, if a character was just going to practice for 2 years, why not just go out and do some creature bashing?Because it is a lot faster to say your character trained for 2 years then it is to actually play the game. Gold stars for everyone. Hurray!
StevenO 03-25-08, 07:21 PM	Because it is a lot faster to say your character trained for 2 years then it is to actually play the game. Gold stars for everyone. Hurray! It is just as easy to say your character gained X amount of experience over those two years with no significant changes wealth. Don't be afraid of levelling as levels are the grease that makes the system work. There are plenty of ways to increase a character's power without actually giving them levels but they do start to distort the game's perception. Sure you can take out a Great Wyrm Red Dragon with a party of 12th level characters; do that with a standard four member party created using 25-30 point buy stats and typical wealth and I'd be VERY impressed but do it with a party of eight using best 4d6 of seven times rerolling 1s and 2s stats plus the character wealth of a 20th level character and I'd probably care less.
Mark_Aged 03-25-08, 07:44 PM	If feats are what you want, this thread might help. Mostly the 6th post: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=892809
unundindur 03-25-08, 08:05 PM	Check out complete scoundrel. In that book you have "locations" that grant feats. The most useful are likely Iron will, and some of the skill focus feats, which can be useful as requirements. The locations work as treasure, but you (or really your GM) should check the book. :)
Dheran 03-25-08, 09:25 PM	If feats are what you want, this thread might help. Mostly the 6th post: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=892809 Thanks for acknowledging my efforts there. I hadn't finished reading Magic Item Compendium when I assembled that list, and the most recent version is here: Magic Items Granting Feats (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/JHtB/feats.html). Many Cleric domains have feats as their granted power. A fairly long list of domains (100+) is here: Cleric Domain List (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/JHtB/domains.html). Just search for the text "feat". (They're also color-coded.) You can gain up to 2 feats by taking flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) for your character. unundindur pointed out that magical locations can grant feats, and there are more such locations in Complete Mage. Obviously DM cooperation is required for your character to be able to find these places. A number of spells will let you temporarily gain feats. The most straightforward of these is Heroics (Spell Compendium), but there are others. Form-altering spells such as Alter Self generally give you any racial bonus feats of the form you assume. (Note that if you start as human you also lose the bonus feat for that race.) Mirror Move (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20000901a) lets you pick up a general feat that you've observed. Second Wind gives you the Endurance feat. Strategic Charge gives you Mobility. Look around; I'm sure you'll find others.
risner 03-26-08, 09:11 AM	Is there any way to attain feats without lvling? Like going to an academy or training grounds, training with a master or just practiceing by yourself? If there is what is the time frame to learn a new feat, cost in money or exp and should there be a roll of a skill or stat as in Int to see if u learned it after the allotteed amount of time is up? Also should there be an amount cap of feats u can get at any lvl? EX:<Makeing a player age 2 years of training time but giveing them 10 feats at lvl 3 would seem to abit overpowered.> I'm DMing for the first time and was asked this question and I can't find anything about it anywhere. Buy one of the select few items with embedded feats. Take levels of Ardent Dillitante (Planar Handbook) which provides 3 character feats.
key 03-26-08, 11:23 AM	Is there any way to attain feats without lvling? Wishes.
risner 03-26-08, 01:42 PM	Wishes. Only by wishing for a 25k gp item that grants a feat? Not by RAW, but the DM is free to allow it. I wouldn't for example.
Celcious 03-26-08, 01:42 PM	Thanks for all the information. I'll try out makeing a templete see how it works out, and tell them about the other books they need to get if they want the feats from those books.
Nezkrul 03-26-08, 06:20 PM	Because it is a lot faster to say your character trained for 2 years then it is to actually play the game. Um, no, actually, it would be faster to have 4 encounters every day of your party's CR for those 730 days. By my calculations (which are most likely incorrect), you'd be about level 100 by that time.
navar100 03-26-08, 06:54 PM	RAW no, but a DM can allow for it in some ways. (Flaws are Unearthed Arcana optional rules exception.) A Wish/Miracle is one way it might be granted. A DM might offer it as a story award in lieu of or part of treasure. As a reward for completeing some task, the party's patron for the adventure offers training of a feat as a reward. Player characters just get another feat by DM fiat. The DM might allow for a magic item to give the benefit of a feat. For example, with my group as part of treasure we found some rings that provide Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, and Iron Will - one Feat to a ring :) . They were unexpected and intriguing. It was cool to have interesting out of the ordinary magic items.
key 03-27-08, 04:10 PM	Only by wishing for a 25k gp item that grants a feat? Not by RAW, but the DM is free to allow it. I wouldn't for example. RAW: You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.) It is within both the realm of possibility and RAW to ask for a feat, via a wish, and get exactly what you want. You may not get it, but the OP asked if there were any other ways of attaining feats, not any other guaranteed ways of attaining feats.
Tsuul 03-27-08, 05:11 PM	Um, no, actually, it would be faster to have 4 encounters every day of your party's CR for those 730 days. By my calculations (which are most likely incorrect), you'd be about level 100 by that time.I was using play time as the measurement.
risner 03-27-08, 06:58 PM	RAW: It is within both the realm of possibility and RAW to ask for a feat, via a wish, and get exactly what you want. You may not get it, but the OP asked if there were any other ways of attaining feats, not any other guaranteed ways of attaining feats. Asking for a feat is exactly something that is supposed to be perverted. In other words, you may get that feat and lose one of your other feats to compensate.
Nezkrul 03-27-08, 07:19 PM	Asking for a feat is exactly something that is supposed to be perverted. In other words, you may get that feat and lose one of your other feats to compensate. or turn you into a critter that gets that feat as a bonus feat :devil:
navar100 03-27-08, 11:11 PM	Since people like to say that Feats are less powerful than a 9th level spell and Wish can duplicate up to 8th level spells, a character wishing for a feat someone of his level could have had is not asking for something greater than the power of a wish. You need to have perspective. A PC wizard with Wish continually using Wish to get lots of feats is a problem. A DM fiat of one Feat only from a Wish is not unreasonable. However, as a once in a campaign thing where the party defeats the Great Evil and is offered a Wish/Miracle by a Solar, powerful Patron, a deity, etc., and someone wishes for Great Fortitude, Craft Miscellaneous Magic Item, Greater Weapon Specialization (when he already has Greater Weapon Focus), Extra Rage, or whatever one feat he wants is not going to mean the game is now broken to unplayability. It's a Wish. It allows for reasonable potent things. Wishing for a feat is not wishing to win D&D. Some DMs need to get over themselves. It's not a sin to say "Yes" to a player's request/wish.
MAdgryphon 03-28-08, 01:19 AM	True, but then, they players will go, hey, "Wish = Bonus feat". And once you've said yes once, you've got no precedence to say no. Now, you could then just say no anyways, but it seems like better player relations just to not cross that line at all, y'know?
navar100 03-28-08, 04:03 AM	If you have players who can't appreciate the niceness of allowing a bonus feat through a Wish granted as party reward, you have problems far beyond the idea that a Wish granted a feat. DM fiat of only getting one feat via Wish will do. A Wish is a two-way deal. DM promises not to screw over the character; player promises not to wish to win D&D. It's that simple. Wishing for a feat is then not a problem.
key 03-28-08, 10:28 AM	Asking for a feat is exactly something that is supposed to be perverted. Not everyone shares this opinion. In other words, you may get that feat and lose one of your other feats to compensate. Yes, but it's also possible that you get the feat you want with no negative repercussions.
risner 04-01-08, 12:45 AM	Not everyone shares this opinion. Yes, but it's also possible that you get the feat you want with no negative repercussions. Oh boy do I want to start a feat heavy character in your game. 40+ feats in a ECL 20 game.