Arcane Disciple. Any recommendations? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Disciple. Any recommendations? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FrostWolf
12-15-07, 08:13 AM Good morning. I was flipping my way through Comp. Divine and stumbled onto this fun little feat. Being a person that likes to play with interesting feats (one could say that I have a Feat fetish) I was thinking of giving it to two of my characters. The first is a Duskblade, and the second is a Sorc-6/fighter-1/Abjurant Champ-?/Eldritch Knight-?. The meat of this post is: What Domains are useful for these gents, and what ones should be avoided like the black death? I examined the Duskblade Handbook, but didn't see any recommendations other that taking this feat.

As always, thank you in advance for your time.
Nicholas the Paladin
12-15-07, 08:55 AM I always like the Travel Domai: Longstrider, Fly, Dimension Door, Teleport. Great for any character. Also Healing might be a usefull domain.

You have to remember that these spells use te WIS-mod for it's DC, so you better get spells that don't need a save.

enjoy!
FrostWolf
12-15-07, 10:51 AM Ah. I see. So my duskblade is out of luck. I went warforged, so 11 is his Wis.
Merestil Haye
12-15-07, 12:45 PM Wisdom determines not only the spell's DC (which may well not be a problem if you take a domain focussed on buffing you or your party) but also whether you can cast the spell at all. You require a Wis of 10 + the spell's level (as it appears on the Domain list) in order to prepare or cast one of these Domain spells.

You also need to learn the spells. All the feat does is add the spells to your class spell list; it does not teach you the spells (unless your class is one that knows all spells on your spell list.) Consequently you need to spend resources actually learning the spells. This makes the feat somewhat suboptimal for sorcerers as well, I'm afraid (unless you're prepared to invest significantly in the role the domain steers you to.)
InkBlot
12-15-07, 01:24 PM It would also let him use scrolls, wands, and staves with those domain spells in them, wouldn't it? For the Duskblade, that can be rather nice (especialy if there isn't another full caster in the party).
Merestil Haye
12-15-07, 02:14 PM It would also let him use scrolls, wands, and staves with those domain spells in them, wouldn't it? For the Duskblade, that can be rather nice (especialy if there isn't another full caster in the party).For wands and staves that's an unconditional "yes"; the only qualification is that the spells be on the character's class spell list. The feat adds the spells to the character's class spell list.

For scrolls, there are two additional criteria that need to be met in order to activate the device. First the process to activate a scroll requires that the scroll be of the right type - that is, for an arcane disciple, that the scroll be an arcane scroll of the spell. That might be a bit tricky to come by.
Secondly, the relevant ability needs to be 10 + the level of the spell on the scroll. For the arcane disciple trying to activate a scroll of a spell from his domain, that's Wis.Those factors make activating a scroll just a touch harder.
risner
12-17-07, 01:00 PM It would also let him use scrolls, wands, and staves with those domain spells in them, wouldn't it? For the Duskblade, that can be rather nice (especialy if there isn't another full caster in the party).

Yes with the caveats for Scroll activations still being required.
LSMFT
12-17-07, 02:58 PM You also need to learn the spells. All the feat does is add the spells to your class spell list; it does not teach you the spells (unless your class is one that knows all spells on your spell list.) Consequently you need to spend resources actually learning the spells. This makes the feat somewhat suboptimal for sorcerers as well, I'm afraid (unless you're prepared to invest significantly in the role the domain steers you to.)And, even for classes where the class-list and spells-known are the same, you can still only cast your Domain spell once per day with this feat. (And you don’t get the benefit of an additional domain-slot either.)

IMHO, this is one of those feats you really only want to take when it fills some pressing need, like taking the Healing Domain because no one else in the party can use a wand of CLW. I’ve also heard of people using it to gain a needed spell for a PrC prerequisite. Other than that, not really worth it under most circumstances.
Nicholas the Paladin
12-18-07, 02:50 AM IMHO, this is one of those feats you really only want to take when it fills some pressing need, like taking the Healing Domain because no one else in the party can use a wand of CLW. I’ve also heard of people using it to gain a needed spell for a PrC prerequisite. Other than that, not really worth it under most circumstances. OUr party doens't have a healer as of late (player dropped cleric and took Swashb), so this feat could indeed be a nice thing. But we feel that it's not really 'fair' to make another character take a feat, that takes up a valuable feat slot from one person while it benefits the whole party.

As a Beguiler I'd like to take the 'Travel' domain, since I have a fixed spell-list and I'd like have to have some flexibility for myself (Fly and Dimension Door are great for that). Besides that, 'Locate object' is a spell that really fits the Beguiler-theme in my view.
Tordak
12-18-07, 09:53 AM The way I see it, you're looking to be a fighter/blaster for your group. Instead of sorcerer, altough you get more versatility, you should go with warmage if allowed. Since you have access to all your class list spells, you'll gain acces to all spell (provided you have sufficient wisdom). War, healing, protection, strengh are all quite good for that role. I'm not sure Warmage have a lot of abjuration spell, which might rule out the abjurent champion (I think they do though, cause you're not much of a war mage if you can protect yourself).

Edit : I just reread your post and realised you already have your characters, sorry. Yeah, I don't think it's that useful in your situation.

PS : I didn't see that feat, do you also get the domain's power?
Merestil Haye
12-18-07, 10:09 AM As a Beguiler I'd like to take the 'Travel' domain, since I have a fixed spell-list and I'd like have to have some flexibility for myself (Fly and Dimension Door are great for that). Besides that, 'Locate object' is a spell that really fits the Beguiler-theme in my view.The Travel domain sounds good for a choice. Also the Beguiler suffers less from MAD than the Warmage, because your spellcasting doesn't depend on Charisma at all (although a higher than average Cha will give you an edge in Charisma checks if they ever come up.)

PS : I didn't see that feat, do you also get the domain's power?No, just the spells added to your spell list.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostWolf 12-15-07, 08:13 AM	Good morning. I was flipping my way through Comp. Divine and stumbled onto this fun little feat. Being a person that likes to play with interesting feats (one could say that I have a Feat fetish) I was thinking of giving it to two of my characters. The first is a Duskblade, and the second is a Sorc-6/fighter-1/Abjurant Champ-?/Eldritch Knight-?. The meat of this post is: What Domains are useful for these gents, and what ones should be avoided like the black death? I examined the Duskblade Handbook, but didn't see any recommendations other that taking this feat. As always, thank you in advance for your time.
Nicholas the Paladin 12-15-07, 08:55 AM	I always like the Travel Domai: Longstrider, Fly, Dimension Door, Teleport. Great for any character. Also Healing might be a usefull domain. You have to remember that these spells use te WIS-mod for it's DC, so you better get spells that don't need a save. enjoy!
FrostWolf 12-15-07, 10:51 AM	Ah. I see. So my duskblade is out of luck. I went warforged, so 11 is his Wis.
Merestil Haye 12-15-07, 12:45 PM	Wisdom determines not only the spell's DC (which may well not be a problem if you take a domain focussed on buffing you or your party) but also whether you can cast the spell at all. You require a Wis of 10 + the spell's level (as it appears on the Domain list) in order to prepare or cast one of these Domain spells. You also need to learn the spells. All the feat does is add the spells to your class spell list; it does not teach you the spells (unless your class is one that knows all spells on your spell list.) Consequently you need to spend resources actually learning the spells. This makes the feat somewhat suboptimal for sorcerers as well, I'm afraid (unless you're prepared to invest significantly in the role the domain steers you to.)
InkBlot 12-15-07, 01:24 PM	It would also let him use scrolls, wands, and staves with those domain spells in them, wouldn't it? For the Duskblade, that can be rather nice (especialy if there isn't another full caster in the party).
Merestil Haye 12-15-07, 02:14 PM	It would also let him use scrolls, wands, and staves with those domain spells in them, wouldn't it? For the Duskblade, that can be rather nice (especialy if there isn't another full caster in the party).For wands and staves that's an unconditional "yes"; the only qualification is that the spells be on the character's class spell list. The feat adds the spells to the character's class spell list. For scrolls, there are two additional criteria that need to be met in order to activate the device. First the process to activate a scroll requires that the scroll be of the right type - that is, for an arcane disciple, that the scroll be an arcane scroll of the spell. That might be a bit tricky to come by. Secondly, the relevant ability needs to be 10 + the level of the spell on the scroll. For the arcane disciple trying to activate a scroll of a spell from his domain, that's Wis.Those factors make activating a scroll just a touch harder.
risner 12-17-07, 01:00 PM	It would also let him use scrolls, wands, and staves with those domain spells in them, wouldn't it? For the Duskblade, that can be rather nice (especialy if there isn't another full caster in the party). Yes with the caveats for Scroll activations still being required.
LSMFT 12-17-07, 02:58 PM	You also need to learn the spells. All the feat does is add the spells to your class spell list; it does not teach you the spells (unless your class is one that knows all spells on your spell list.) Consequently you need to spend resources actually learning the spells. This makes the feat somewhat suboptimal for sorcerers as well, I'm afraid (unless you're prepared to invest significantly in the role the domain steers you to.)And, even for classes where the class-list and spells-known are the same, you can still only cast your Domain spell once per day with this feat. (And you don’t get the benefit of an additional domain-slot either.) IMHO, this is one of those feats you really only want to take when it fills some pressing need, like taking the Healing Domain because no one else in the party can use a wand of CLW. I’ve also heard of people using it to gain a needed spell for a PrC prerequisite. Other than that, not really worth it under most circumstances.
Nicholas the Paladin 12-18-07, 02:50 AM	IMHO, this is one of those feats you really only want to take when it fills some pressing need, like taking the Healing Domain because no one else in the party can use a wand of CLW. I’ve also heard of people using it to gain a needed spell for a PrC prerequisite. Other than that, not really worth it under most circumstances. OUr party doens't have a healer as of late (player dropped cleric and took Swashb), so this feat could indeed be a nice thing. But we feel that it's not really 'fair' to make another character take a feat, that takes up a valuable feat slot from one person while it benefits the whole party. As a Beguiler I'd like to take the 'Travel' domain, since I have a fixed spell-list and I'd like have to have some flexibility for myself (Fly and Dimension Door are great for that). Besides that, 'Locate object' is a spell that really fits the Beguiler-theme in my view.
Tordak 12-18-07, 09:53 AM	The way I see it, you're looking to be a fighter/blaster for your group. Instead of sorcerer, altough you get more versatility, you should go with warmage if allowed. Since you have access to all your class list spells, you'll gain acces to all spell (provided you have sufficient wisdom). War, healing, protection, strengh are all quite good for that role. I'm not sure Warmage have a lot of abjuration spell, which might rule out the abjurent champion (I think they do though, cause you're not much of a war mage if you can protect yourself). Edit : I just reread your post and realised you already have your characters, sorry. Yeah, I don't think it's that useful in your situation. PS : I didn't see that feat, do you also get the domain's power?
Merestil Haye 12-18-07, 10:09 AM	As a Beguiler I'd like to take the 'Travel' domain, since I have a fixed spell-list and I'd like have to have some flexibility for myself (Fly and Dimension Door are great for that). Besides that, 'Locate object' is a spell that really fits the Beguiler-theme in my view.The Travel domain sounds good for a choice. Also the Beguiler suffers less from MAD than the Warmage, because your spellcasting doesn't depend on Charisma at all (although a higher than average Cha will give you an edge in Charisma checks if they ever come up.) PS : I didn't see that feat, do you also get the domain's power?No, just the spells added to your spell list.