Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Windspear 09-26-07, 09:24 PM	Is there a feat that allows you to avoid ASF?
runestar 09-26-07, 09:27 PM	Still spell?:P
InkBlot 09-26-07, 11:58 PM	All kidding aside, Still Spell is the simplest and one of the most effective ways to avoid arcane spell failure. Only spells with somatic components suffer spell failure. Also keep in mind that not all spells have somatic components. There are even many spells which are designed to be used in melee combat which lack somatic components. Another way is to simply not wear armor. Cast mage armor every morning and carry a magic mithral shield (mithral shields have 0% ASF). If you need more protection than that then you can cast spells like blur, mirror image, or protection from evil. If you can already ignore spell failure from one kind of armor (e.g., if you're playing a bard), then there is a feat in Complete Arcane which will allow you to ignore spell failure in a heavier category of armor. A bard with this feat can ignore spell failure in medium armor. Mithral armor has reduced spell failure. The Twilight armor enchantment (found in PHBII and a handful of other books) also reduces spell failure, and stacks with mithral's reduction. There's also the Spellsword prestige class, from Complete Warrior, which reduces the spell failure chance of armor you wear. Any gish can easily qualify for it.
StevenO 09-27-07, 12:04 AM	Still spell works although applying it requires a +1 spell slot adjustment to most spells. You could just select spells with out a somatic (S) component to begin with as they aren't subject to ASF. There is a feat somewhere that allow characters who can cast without ASF in one type of armor (ie Bard with Light Armor) to cast in the next level without ASF as well. I've suggested a feat to ignore ASF: Practiced Armored Casting (or something like this) Prereq: Still Spell, Armor Proficiency, (considering adding Combat Casting as well) Benefit: Ignore ASF caused by worn armor you are proficient in. Concept: Your knowledge of Still Spell and Armor has allowed you to simplify your Somatic components such that the armor you have trained in no longer hinders you. You still can't cast (S) spells while grappled or bound like you could with a true Stilled spell.
tarkin 09-27-07, 12:08 PM	That feat is too powerfull. You know about the feats that expand your ability to ignore ASF from light to medium, but you think one feat is ok to expand it from NONE to Heavy? What you describe is an Epic feat at the minimum. A feat that might be reasonable would be something like this: Ignore ASF Pre reqs: Still Spell, Spellcraft 8+ ranks, Dex 13+, Benefit: 3/day you can cast a spell ignoring the ASF chance completely caused by any thing you are wearing. This does not make the spell still, and you still can not cast while grappled, etc.
nightwyrm 09-27-07, 12:19 PM	That feat is too powerfull. Not really. That feat requires you to take feats in armor proficiencies as prereq and the heavier armors all require the lighter armor profs as prereq. So a wizard who wants to use that feat in heavy armor needs: Still spell, light armor prof, med armor prof, heavy armor prof and then that feat.
StevenO 09-27-07, 01:47 PM	That feat is too powerfull. You know about the feats that expand your ability to ignore ASF from light to medium, but you think one feat is ok to expand it from NONE to Heavy? What you describe is an Epic feat at the minimum. A feat that might be reasonable would be something like this: Ignore ASF Pre reqs: Still Spell, Spellcraft 8+ ranks, Dex 13+, Benefit: 3/day you can cast a spell ignoring the ASF chance completely caused by any thing you are wearing. This does not make the spell still, and you still can not cast while grappled, etc. You may be right to an extent. Its effect would be similiar to the epic Feat Automatic Still Spell (prereqs Still Spell, spellcraft 27, 9th level spells) except that are not gaining the full use of Still Spell with my concept. My feat would basically make arcane casting work like divine casting as far as armor is concerned except I'm still requiring proficiency to make it work. I think the effect (no ASF for casting in proficient armor) is fine but will admit the prereqs could stand some fine tuning. After Still Spell and Armor Profiency the next thing I'd consider is adding Combat Casting (if you aren't fighting why would you be casting in armor?) and after that ranks in concentration although spellcraft wouldn't be a poor second skill choice. I would even consider tying the needed Concentration ranks to the Armor Bonus of your armor in the feat's mechanics instead of as a prereq. In the end, my opinion is that if you think just needing Still Spell and Armor feats isn't enough I'd add Combat Casting as a prereq as it had often been considered a poor feat until Abjurant Champion made it a prereq and this idea has been around before that came out. My suggestion is not ONE feat to go from avoiding ASF in No armor to All armor but at least two (or three with CC) for that effect. Battle Caster would take two feats to go from casting in light to heavy as well so adding CC would be logical. One other thing to note is that I don't change required proficiency for armor just because of special materials so casting in Mithral Full Plate would still require Heavy Armor Prof even if some of the newer material printed disagrees. Isn't there also a feat out there someplace that lowers the spell level increase caused by MM? Although it may have "spell still requires a +1 adjustment" and be limited to a single MM feat it still wouldn't make my suggestion so far off as far as power is concerned.
Salla 09-27-07, 01:56 PM	Not really. That feat requires you to take feats in armor proficiencies as prereq and the heavier armors all require the lighter armor profs as prereq. So a wizard who wants to use that feat in heavy armor needs: Still spell, light armor prof, med armor prof, heavy armor prof and then that feat. Or 'Still spell and one level of Fighter, Paladin, Crusader ...' As a side note, a 4th level Duskblade with Battlecaster can cast spells in Heavy Armor while carrying a Light Shield and suffer no ASF.
dman11235 09-27-07, 02:38 PM	Actually, all you need is the proficiency, which can be achieved with a variety of means, including one level dips. So I agree with Tarkin. That feat is too powerful. Besides, the feat already exists in Battle Caster to some extent, and is an epic feat in automatic still spell. @StevenO: That feat is an epic feat and reduces the cost of metamagic by one to a minimum of one. Here it is. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMetamagic)
Nephlite 09-27-07, 02:39 PM	Or 'Still spell and one level of Fighter, Paladin, Crusader ...' As a side note, a 4th level Duskblade with Battlecaster can cast spells in Heavy Armor while carrying a Light Shield and suffer no ASF. However, without feat Somatic Weapon: he can't cast somatic spells because he must have a free hand with a weapon and shield in hands.
QOShea 09-27-07, 02:47 PM	Either Somatic Weapon or Locked Gauntlet.
StevenO 09-27-07, 07:58 PM	Actually, all you need is the proficiency, which can be achieved with a variety of means, including one level dips. So I agree with Tarkin. That feat is too powerful. Besides, the feat already exists in Battle Caster to some extent, and is an epic feat in automatic still spell. @StevenO: That feat is an epic feat and reduces the cost of metamagic by one to a minimum of one. Here it is. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMetamagic) I am thinking there is a more recent, and much more limited, method of reducing the spell modifier due to metamagic but then I'm not normally an acrane caster as don't pay much attention to those things. I don't think my feat is too powerful, especially if you add Combat Casting to the prereqs. Yes, you'll probably get all the armor feats you need from a dip into another class but that SHOULD set a character back at least one of those all important casting levels arcanists loath to give up. I also agree that Battle Caster already performs a similiar function and if it use was expanded such that in offered a step zero armor to light armor all of this thread type could go away. The primary reason to take Still Spell may be to avoid ASF but if it becomes Automatic then its other uses also become much more valuable as it keeps many spells available when they may not be. I don't know what 4e may do to armored wizards but with 3.5 allowing them to spend a couple feats and probably needing a dip into another class just so they can cast spells with the same freedom of clerics shouldn't be game breaking. Armor may be the most cost effecient way of getting a good AC but with enough DEX and a little magic it isn't too difficult to find that the "tin can" may actually be easier to hurt than the "guy in a bathrobe."
Zaranthan 09-28-07, 10:33 AM	I am thinking there is a more recent, and much more limited, method of reducing the spell modifier due to metamagic but then I'm not normally an acrane caster as don't pay much attention to those things. Arcane Thesis reduces the adjustment for ONE spell that you have Spell Mastery with. Easy Metamagic is in Dragon Magazine (and if you think anything in THERE is balanced, have fun). I don't think my feat is too powerful, especially if you add Combat Casting to the prereqs. Yes, you'll probably get all the armor feats you need from a dip into another class but that SHOULD set a character back at least one of those all important casting levels arcanists loath to give up. I also agree that Battle Caster already performs a similiar function and if it use was expanded such that in offered a step zero armor to light armor all of this thread type could go away. The primary reason to take Still Spell may be to avoid ASF but if it becomes Automatic then its other uses also become much more valuable as it keeps many spells available when they may not be. Giving up one level of spellcasting is pretty much bog standard for gish builds. I don't even consider it a meaningful setback when making characters. House ruling Battle Caster to bring you from none to light would certainly be much fairer, though still rather powerful. I don't know what 4e may do to armored wizards but with 3.5 allowing them to spend a couple feats and probably needing a dip into another class just so they can cast spells with the same freedom of clerics shouldn't be game breaking. Armor may be the most cost effecient way of getting a good AC but with enough DEX and a little magic it isn't too difficult to find that the "tin can" may actually be easier to hurt than the "guy in a bathrobe." Did you just say that Wizards should be made more powerful? Yeesh, I want to play in your spellcaster-stomping world.
StevenO 09-28-07, 01:51 PM	Given some of the other things I see proposed and supported on these board my feat suggestion certainly isn't too powerful. Strong, perhaps but then I'm also glad I don't see its detractors promoting the suggestion that Weapon Finesse either has its +1 BAB prereq drops or "even better" be allowed freely on all qualifing weapons. These boards are all full of "houserule" suggestions. Way back when I first mentioned my feat here (post #4) I also included the RAW ways to avoid ASF although I could have include those PrCs that reduce ASF by X% and also mentioned the Twilight armor property. As house rules go I don't think this it too bad for a feat. As for spellcasters, in a game I'd run spellcaster may be powerful because I'd run 28 PB which some say favors casters. It does however limit possible abuses from multiple ability scores.
dman11235 09-28-07, 03:13 PM	Um, some of the other things proposed and "supported" aren't balanced at all. I know I haven't said anything on a few threads for homebrews because they were so overpowered that it was unworkable. And then other people said they were fine.
Windspear 09-28-07, 03:47 PM	Iīm looking for smoething for a fighter/sorcerer/eldrich knight. That means from none to light, and I donīt want to throw in a bard level.
Merestil Haye 09-28-07, 04:43 PM	Iīm looking for smoething for a fighter/sorcerer/eldrich knight. That means from none to light, and I donīt want to throw in a bard level.Bard wouldn't work anyway. Armoured spellcasting applies only to spells of the class that has armoured spellcasting as a class ability. If you are a bard/sorcerer wearing armour that imposes ASF, all your Sorcerer spells suffer from it. Sub Epic there's Still Spell, Twilight Mithral Chain Shirts or the no-armour-at-all option. There's also a bunch of class abilities - play a Warmage (or Beguiler) instead of a Sorcerer and get Armoured Mage, or use Complete Mage's alternate class feature for fighters (but that is limited in the level of spell it affects). Alternatively list out spells with no somatic component and never worry about ASF even in mountain plate with a tower shield.
StevenO 09-28-07, 07:48 PM	Um, some of the other things proposed and "supported" aren't balanced at all. I know I haven't said anything on a few threads for homebrews because they were so overpowered that it was unworkable. And then other people said they were fine. I know some some of things proposed are so crazy and I often try to avoid them. It is scary when some of those appear to get a number of "believers" who begin to think that they "must be right" because there are only one or two posts contrary to the idea. It may lure some into thinking fairness is a trait of democracy which I'd say is NOT the truth. I'd need to do some checking but another obscure way to avoid ASF may be to get a level (or more) in the Geomancer PrC. Of course that requires some divine casting and has other complications but it can eliminate ASF.