Arcane strike and dual wielding, how does it work? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane strike and dual wielding, how does it work? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
unundindur
01-03-08, 02:05 PM In the feat description it mentions "a weapon", while the text later refer to "all attacks made in that round". In the case of two weapon fighting those are could contradict each other.

It should alos be mentioned that natural weapons and unarmed strikes work, which could lead me to conclude that "a weapon" should be weapons, as natural weapons and unarmed strike can have multiple hitting points of sort.

Thanks for any help.
Tedronai
01-03-08, 02:27 PM The feat, as written applies to your unnarmed attacks, ALL your natural weapons, or ONE (manufactured) melee weapon.
It does not apply to multiple choices from that list, nor does it apply to multiple (manufactured) melee weapons simultaneously (though it could be activated multiple times to arrive at that end).
Spikes01k
01-03-08, 11:26 PM Arcane strike is a highly misunderstood feat.

1. It is no longer a free action, but a swift action. This is covered in the rules compendium. I called WotC about this one.
2. My RoW the bonus to hit applies to both weapons, but the damage dice.
Merestil Haye
01-04-08, 08:05 AM Arcane strike is a highly misunderstood feat.

1. It is no longer a free action, but a swift action. This is covered in the rules compendium. I called WotC about this one.Where does the RC say that?. This discussion is a good reason why Arcane Strike should not be changed.

2. My RoW the bonus to hit applies to both weapons, but the damage dice.The feat applies to one manufactured weapon per activation. If you want to boost two weapons with it in the same round, you have two spend two spells. Being unable to do so is a weakening of the feat by removing an option. (It may not be very useful an option all that often, but it is still there.)
Spikes01k
01-04-08, 08:30 AM Where does the RC say that?. This discussion is a good reason why Arcane Strike should not be changed.

The feat applies to one manufactured weapon per activation. If you want to boost two weapons with it in the same round, you have two spend two spells. Being unable to do so is a weakening of the feat by removing an option. (It may not be very useful an option all that often, but it is still there.)

He said the RC stats that some things that were made before the invention of swift actions were meant to be switched from free two swift. He said that arcane strike is one of them, and I agree.

It makes a lot of sense if you think about it.
Merestil Haye
01-04-08, 10:49 AM He said the RC stats that some things that were made before the invention of swift actions were meant to be switched from free two swift. He said that arcane strike is one of them, and I agree.And I don't.

Before swift actions, there were free actions, and free actions that you could perform only once per turn. Quicken Spell is the obvious example of the latter, because it says so right in the text.

The things that were "meant to be" switched from free actions to swift actions were those free actions that can be performed only once per turn.

Arcane strike says "as a free action" and not "as a free action that you can perform only once on your turn" - consequently it does not fall into the group of things that were "meant to be" converted.

And no, the RC does not abolish free actions altogether. Neither does it issue errata on Arcane Strike. So the feat remains a free action, and not a swift action, to use.
Spikes01k
01-04-08, 11:16 AM And I don't.

Before swift actions, there were free actions, and free actions that you could perform only once per turn. Quicken Spell is the obvious example of the latter, because it says so right in the text.

The things that were "meant to be" switched from free actions to swift actions were those free actions that can be performed only once per turn.

Arcane strike says "as a free action" and not "as a free action that you can perform only once on your turn" - consequently it does not fall into the group of things that were "meant to be" converted.

And no, the RC does not abolish free actions altogether. Neither does it issue errata on Arcane Strike. So the feat remains a free action, and not a swift action, to use.

Call them yourself, if they sat something different, I'll conseed. I got an offica ruling and you don't.
Tedronai
01-04-08, 11:30 AM Call them yourself, if they sat something different, I'll conseed. I got an offica ruling and you don't.

Please provide a link or page number of said ruling, otherwise what you have is hearsay.
unundindur
01-04-08, 12:50 PM Arcane strike is a highly misunderstood feat.

1. It is no longer a free action, but a swift action. This is covered in the rules compendium. I called WotC about this one.
2. My RoW the bonus to hit applies to both weapons, but the damage dice.

What is RoW? And what did you mean by the second sentance :)
Spikes01k
01-04-08, 03:00 PM What is RoW? And what did you mean by the second sentance :)

Run as Written.

The bonus to hit is applied to all attacks for the round from the way I read it.
Spikes01k
01-04-08, 03:00 PM Please provide a link or page number of said ruling, otherwise what you have is hearsay.

Call them your self, they will give you what you want. Its not that hard.
dman11235
01-04-08, 03:24 PM Here's how I see Arcane Strike: it is a free action that I houserule a swift action (my reason: it's the definition of a swift action. It takes little time, but requires the expenditure of energy that makes it not a free action). It applies to any and all attacks made in a round where you activate it, including attacks from multiple weapons. This view is supported by the RC claim that it it is a swift action, so it can allow you to apply it to all weapons.
Merestil Haye
01-04-08, 03:32 PM Run as Written.

The bonus to hit is applied to all attacks for the round from the way I read it.The bonus to hit is provided to one manufactured weapon, or all natural weapons, or your unarmed strike, and not to all attacks.

Call them your self, they will give you what you want. Its not that hard.Why should I pay for an international call? The local office is closed for the weekend. In any case, Customer Service are not empowered to give official answers.

Please provide the page reference in the Rules Compendium that you believe supports your case.
wonlee76
01-04-08, 04:01 PM Despite what the RC might say, I would conside Arcane Strike's activation a free action just because CW has errata where they made the switch between Free action to Swift Action (Invisible Blade's feinting ability) but chose not to make that change in the Arcane Strike Feat if I recall correctly.

I agree that RC might be right that some "free actions" were intended as 'swift actions" in the event the book in question came out prior to Swift Actions being invented but that doesn't mean all "free actions" are now "swift actions".
dman11235
01-04-08, 04:20 PM Not only that, but CustServ is not trusted around here too much. They tend to give contradictory answers often.

Also, it does not say "one", it says "a". That's a little more ambiguous.
Merestil Haye
01-04-08, 07:26 PM Not only that, but CustServ is not trusted around here too much. They tend to give contradictory answers often.

Also, it does not say "one", it says "a". That's a little more ambiguous.No, not really. "A" is the indefinite article. It means "one" in that context.

Besides, if it meant all weapons it could just say so and not distinguish between "a weapon" and "natural weapons."
mplindustries
01-04-08, 07:37 PM Ignoring the little squabble about swift/free actions and getting back to the actual question, the feat says that you gain a bonus on "all your attack rolls." This is not contradicted by "a weapon" which, as was pointed out, is not the same as saying "one weapon." For example, you could add the bonus to "a shortsword." Then, when you wield two short swords, you would still get the bonus to both, as each is "a short sword."

However, it is contradicted by the example given, during which it mentions getting the bonuses with a single melee weapon. In general, the rule is to use the text when text and tables or text and examples contradict. So, I'd probably lean towards letting it work on everything for the round.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
unundindur 01-03-08, 02:05 PM	In the feat description it mentions "a weapon", while the text later refer to "all attacks made in that round". In the case of two weapon fighting those are could contradict each other. It should alos be mentioned that natural weapons and unarmed strikes work, which could lead me to conclude that "a weapon" should be weapons, as natural weapons and unarmed strike can have multiple hitting points of sort. Thanks for any help.
Tedronai 01-03-08, 02:27 PM	The feat, as written applies to your unnarmed attacks, ALL your natural weapons, or ONE (manufactured) melee weapon. It does not apply to multiple choices from that list, nor does it apply to multiple (manufactured) melee weapons simultaneously (though it could be activated multiple times to arrive at that end).
Spikes01k 01-03-08, 11:26 PM	Arcane strike is a highly misunderstood feat. 1. It is no longer a free action, but a swift action. This is covered in the rules compendium. I called WotC about this one. 2. My RoW the bonus to hit applies to both weapons, but the damage dice.
Merestil Haye 01-04-08, 08:05 AM	Arcane strike is a highly misunderstood feat. 1. It is no longer a free action, but a swift action. This is covered in the rules compendium. I called WotC about this one.Where does the RC say that?. This discussion is a good reason why Arcane Strike should not be changed. 2. My RoW the bonus to hit applies to both weapons, but the damage dice.The feat applies to one manufactured weapon per activation. If you want to boost two weapons with it in the same round, you have two spend two spells. Being unable to do so is a weakening of the feat by removing an option. (It may not be very useful an option all that often, but it is still there.)
Spikes01k 01-04-08, 08:30 AM	Where does the RC say that?. This discussion is a good reason why Arcane Strike should not be changed. The feat applies to one manufactured weapon per activation. If you want to boost two weapons with it in the same round, you have two spend two spells. Being unable to do so is a weakening of the feat by removing an option. (It may not be very useful an option all that often, but it is still there.) He said the RC stats that some things that were made before the invention of swift actions were meant to be switched from free two swift. He said that arcane strike is one of them, and I agree. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it.
Merestil Haye 01-04-08, 10:49 AM	He said the RC stats that some things that were made before the invention of swift actions were meant to be switched from free two swift. He said that arcane strike is one of them, and I agree.And I don't. Before swift actions, there were free actions, and free actions that you could perform only once per turn. Quicken Spell is the obvious example of the latter, because it says so right in the text. The things that were "meant to be" switched from free actions to swift actions were those free actions that can be performed only once per turn. Arcane strike says "as a free action" and not "as a free action that you can perform only once on your turn" - consequently it does not fall into the group of things that were "meant to be" converted. And no, the RC does not abolish free actions altogether. Neither does it issue errata on Arcane Strike. So the feat remains a free action, and not a swift action, to use.
Spikes01k 01-04-08, 11:16 AM	And I don't. Before swift actions, there were free actions, and free actions that you could perform only once per turn. Quicken Spell is the obvious example of the latter, because it says so right in the text. The things that were "meant to be" switched from free actions to swift actions were those free actions that can be performed only once per turn. Arcane strike says "as a free action" and not "as a free action that you can perform only once on your turn" - consequently it does not fall into the group of things that were "meant to be" converted. And no, the RC does not abolish free actions altogether. Neither does it issue errata on Arcane Strike. So the feat remains a free action, and not a swift action, to use. Call them yourself, if they sat something different, I'll conseed. I got an offica ruling and you don't.
Tedronai 01-04-08, 11:30 AM	Call them yourself, if they sat something different, I'll conseed. I got an offica ruling and you don't. Please provide a link or page number of said ruling, otherwise what you have is hearsay.
unundindur 01-04-08, 12:50 PM	Arcane strike is a highly misunderstood feat. 1. It is no longer a free action, but a swift action. This is covered in the rules compendium. I called WotC about this one. 2. My RoW the bonus to hit applies to both weapons, but the damage dice. What is RoW? And what did you mean by the second sentance :)
Spikes01k 01-04-08, 03:00 PM	What is RoW? And what did you mean by the second sentance :) Run as Written. The bonus to hit is applied to all attacks for the round from the way I read it.
Spikes01k 01-04-08, 03:00 PM	Please provide a link or page number of said ruling, otherwise what you have is hearsay. Call them your self, they will give you what you want. Its not that hard.
dman11235 01-04-08, 03:24 PM	Here's how I see Arcane Strike: it is a free action that I houserule a swift action (my reason: it's the definition of a swift action. It takes little time, but requires the expenditure of energy that makes it not a free action). It applies to any and all attacks made in a round where you activate it, including attacks from multiple weapons. This view is supported by the RC claim that it it is a swift action, so it can allow you to apply it to all weapons.
Merestil Haye 01-04-08, 03:32 PM	Run as Written. The bonus to hit is applied to all attacks for the round from the way I read it.The bonus to hit is provided to one manufactured weapon, or all natural weapons, or your unarmed strike, and not to all attacks. Call them your self, they will give you what you want. Its not that hard.Why should I pay for an international call? The local office is closed for the weekend. In any case, Customer Service are not empowered to give official answers. Please provide the page reference in the Rules Compendium that you believe supports your case.
wonlee76 01-04-08, 04:01 PM	Despite what the RC might say, I would conside Arcane Strike's activation a free action just because CW has errata where they made the switch between Free action to Swift Action (Invisible Blade's feinting ability) but chose not to make that change in the Arcane Strike Feat if I recall correctly. I agree that RC might be right that some "free actions" were intended as 'swift actions" in the event the book in question came out prior to Swift Actions being invented but that doesn't mean all "free actions" are now "swift actions".
dman11235 01-04-08, 04:20 PM	Not only that, but CustServ is not trusted around here too much. They tend to give contradictory answers often. Also, it does not say "one", it says "a". That's a little more ambiguous.
Merestil Haye 01-04-08, 07:26 PM	Not only that, but CustServ is not trusted around here too much. They tend to give contradictory answers often. Also, it does not say "one", it says "a". That's a little more ambiguous.No, not really. "A" is the indefinite article. It means "one" in that context. Besides, if it meant all weapons it could just say so and not distinguish between "a weapon" and "natural weapons."
mplindustries 01-04-08, 07:37 PM	Ignoring the little squabble about swift/free actions and getting back to the actual question, the feat says that you gain a bonus on "all your attack rolls." This is not contradicted by "a weapon" which, as was pointed out, is not the same as saying "one weapon." For example, you could add the bonus to "a shortsword." Then, when you wield two short swords, you would still get the bonus to both, as each is "a short sword." However, it is contradicted by the example given, during which it mentions getting the bonuses with a single melee weapon. In general, the rule is to use the text when text and tables or text and examples contradict. So, I'd probably lean towards letting it work on everything for the round.