Arcane Strike doubt(+ improved) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Strike doubt(+ improved) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
diegosephroth
03-22-07, 06:22 PM It is a great feat indeed for Spell swords and alike. (for those who are not familiar, it is from CW warrior and gives you a +1bonus on attacks and +1d4 damage for every level of the spell you sacrificed for one round)

But what is the kind of damage you gain(this extra d4)? magic damage? physical damage? since I did not know, I house ruled with my PC that has it so that he could choose between 2 energy types(chosen when he acquired the feat) and deal damage from one of those 2 energy types when he activates it. What you think?

2- I was looking forward an improved version of the feat. Any ideas? I thought about increasing damage to 1d8, giving him choice of the 2 remaining energy types(not sonic) and making it last for 2 rounds, not only one(in form of improving the BAB bonus ). Is it too much overpower?
kelvinaw273
03-22-07, 07:18 PM It's raw magical damage. Bypasses everything, just about, or else stacks with the physical damage of the weapon.
CrazyMarv
03-22-07, 07:21 PM It just says that you channel "Arcane Energy" into the weapon to deal more damage. I'm pretty sure it is an unspecified type of energy, so it affects anything you hit. SR, DR, and Energy Resistance/Immunity do not prevent the damage.

That's, that for the first question. As for a stronger version...I'm not too sure. The feat is pretty good as it is now I find.
PhaedrusXY
03-22-07, 08:32 PM What kind of damage does a Magic Missile do? It does that.
deadman1204
03-22-07, 08:55 PM its much more powerful than your taking into account
It lasts the full round - so if you have 3 attacks, a 3rd lvl spell gives an extra 3d4. Plus its unresistable.
PhaedrusXY
03-22-07, 10:25 PM its much more powerful than your taking into account
It lasts the full round - so if you have 3 attacks, a 3rd lvl spell gives an extra 3d4. Plus its unresistable.It also boosts your attack roll, which means it goes wonderfully well with Power Attack (especially if you're using a two-handed weapon). I thought the attack bonus was +2 per spell level sacrificed, also. With 2-handed Power Attack, this translates into a +4 damage bonus per spell level, for a total of 1d4+4 per spell level on each attack. It is very good for gish builds. I don't know why anything else would ever bother taking it, though.
diegosephroth
03-24-07, 02:55 PM I don't know why anything else would ever bother taking it, though.

Arcane Strike + haste + dancing/spellstoring weapon + Tenser's transformation = ONE HUNDRED BILLION DAMAGE?

I have this spellsword/rage mage npc and I'm working on this combo. Seems quiet good.
serow_#R
03-24-07, 09:44 PM You lose access to all your spells during Tensor's Transformation, so how are you doing to Arcane Strike with that?
PhaedrusXY
03-24-07, 09:47 PM You lose access to all your spells during Tensor's Transformation, so how are you doing to Arcane Strike with that?You don't actually cast the spells with Arcane Strike, so I could see some DMs allowing it. (I probably would, but I'm pretty permissive.)

It still sure as hell doesn't add up to 100 billion damage, though, unless you can afford 4 billion dancing swords somehow. :P
paladin2019
03-24-07, 10:58 PM If a damage type is not listed, I would assume it does the same damage as the weapon...unnamed damage. Unless there is something specific in the feat description, I don't see why DR would not apply, nor why incorporealness would be overcome.

But a 3rd level spell sacrificed, a +3 (or +6) to hit and 3d4 extra damage per attack, that's still nice.
PhaedrusXY
03-24-07, 11:02 PM If a damage type is not listed, I would assume it does the same damage as the weapon...unnamed damage. Weapons don't do unnamed damage. Go look at the weapons table. They all have a damage type listed (Piercing/Bludgeoning/Slashing). Also, someone already stated that the feat says it does "Arcane Energy". That sounds more like it would be doing some kind of magical damage, instead of physical (like weapons).
paladin2019
03-24-07, 11:23 PM Weapons don't do unnamed damage. Go look at the weapons table. They all have a damage type listed (Piercing/Bludgeoning/Slashing). Also, someone already stated that the feat says it does "Arcane Energy". That sounds more like it would be doing some kind of magical damage, instead of physical (like weapons).

Arcane energy is an undefined term. The five energy types are acid, cold, electricity, fire and sonic. They all defeat DR and are in turn defeated by specific energy resistances. Without the text of the feat, I would say it simply adds to the damage of the weapon. This is all one source of damage, so it becomes more effective at overcoming DR though.
PhaedrusXY
03-24-07, 11:28 PM Arcane energy is an undefined term. The five energy types are acid, cold, electricity, fire and sonic. They all defeat DR and are in turn defeated by specific energy resistances. Without the text of the feat, I would say it simply adds to the damage of the weapon. This is all one source of damage, so it becomes more effective at overcoming DR though.There are also Force spells, which are not affected by DR or Energy Resistance. Horrid Wilting also does untyped "magic damage". Since the damage is explicitly called something (Arcane Energy), instead of just being left unnamed, and since there are magical effects in the game that do untyped "magic damage", I think the simplest interpretation based on the text is that it does untyped "magic damage".
paladin2019
03-24-07, 11:32 PM There are also Force spells, which are not affected by DR or Energy Resistance. Horrid Wilting also does untyped "magic damage".

Yes, force damage is another type of damage. All spell damage ignores DR. However, unless this feat specifies that it is still a spell damaging the target or is some type of energy of force damage, it should be treated the same as the weapon in the same manner as sneak attack, favored enemy, smiting, etc.
PhaedrusXY
03-24-07, 11:36 PM However, unless this feat specifies that it is still a spell damaging the target or is some type of energy or force damageIt does say that. It says it does "Arcane Energy" damage. It is also fueled by sacrificing a spell, and it doesn't say anything about this just making you temporarily stronger, or making you swing harder.

So I don't think you really have much of an argument, based on the text of the feat. For game balance purposes, or just your opinion, I could understand why you'd argue the way you are. But that isn't really related to what the feat says.
diegosephroth
03-25-07, 12:01 AM uhm... dunno

the spell really does not say anything but "channel arcane energy"
it's just like divine might's "you channel energy"
or smite...and in the end they're treated like extra physical damage
con- you'll suffer from dmg reduction
pros- you can score criticals + stacks with other stuff

the feats are really not that specific so I believe it's up to the DM
I particularly believe giving RAW MAGIC damage to someone for an entire round might end unballanced. Imagine a Dragon with dozens attacks spending a single spell slot and unleashing havok?

So I house rulled that the char gains energy damage equal to the energy from the spell he's burning. If its not an energy spell, the damage he receives is pure physical-as teh weapon.

He's not a sorcerer so I needed not to think about spontaneously casting(altough I believe it could work almost in the same manner- since the sorcerer would need to KNOW spells of a certain energy from a specific level if he wanted all energies ready anytime).

about the other questions

1- You don't actually cast a spell. It does not say yuo need concentration.So you can be raging and still use it.
2- Even if you NEEDED to cast the spell, the rage mage is there for it.
3- Extra rage says in pre requisite that I must have "rage or frenzy class feature". Could I benefit from extra rage with the spell fury from Rage Mage? What about Warrior Cry(It's a kinda of rage in the end)?
paladin2019
03-25-07, 12:12 AM It does say that. It says it does "Arcane Energy" damage. Arcane is not an energy type. Arcane energy does not exist in the rules, merely as fluff in the feat. Therefore, the only other option I see is like smite, favored enemy, sneak attack, etc.

And because the bonus is represented by dice rather than a fixed number, it shouldn't multiply on a critical, either.
stsword
03-26-07, 10:21 PM Arcane is not an energy type. Arcane energy does not exist in the rules, merely as fluff in the feat. Therefore, the only other option I see is like smite, favored enemy, sneak attack, etc.

If attacks cannot be a manifestation of pure magical energy, than just what do Archmages convert their spells into?
starfire311
03-26-07, 11:02 PM If attacks cannot be a manifestation of pure magical energy, than just what do Archmages convert their spells into?

well since they are using their hands to cast the spell errr abilitiy, and hands do bludgeoning damage, then the archmage does bludgeoning damage with his abilities.
warbird106
03-28-07, 08:30 PM I have a duskblade, and this is the combo i use:
True Strike (+20 atk roll)+Arcane Strike+Power Atk (+6 damage)+Shocking Grasp (5d6)+Fullblade 2d8+6=almost impossible to miss 5d6+2d8+12+xd4. Max damage=78
J_Riley
03-29-07, 10:24 AM Where Arcane Strike really gets nuts is in an AoO build, since the bonus applies to ALL attacks in a round and a round is until your next turn.

A reach weapon fighter with DEX 16 and Combat Reflexes and no significant other buffs/combos can dish out an additional 12d4 damage

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
diegosephroth 03-22-07, 06:22 PM	It is a great feat indeed for Spell swords and alike. (for those who are not familiar, it is from CW warrior and gives you a +1bonus on attacks and +1d4 damage for every level of the spell you sacrificed for one round) But what is the kind of damage you gain(this extra d4)? magic damage? physical damage? since I did not know, I house ruled with my PC that has it so that he could choose between 2 energy types(chosen when he acquired the feat) and deal damage from one of those 2 energy types when he activates it. What you think? 2- I was looking forward an improved version of the feat. Any ideas? I thought about increasing damage to 1d8, giving him choice of the 2 remaining energy types(not sonic) and making it last for 2 rounds, not only one(in form of improving the BAB bonus ). Is it too much overpower?
kelvinaw273 03-22-07, 07:18 PM	It's raw magical damage. Bypasses everything, just about, or else stacks with the physical damage of the weapon.
CrazyMarv 03-22-07, 07:21 PM	It just says that you channel "Arcane Energy" into the weapon to deal more damage. I'm pretty sure it is an unspecified type of energy, so it affects anything you hit. SR, DR, and Energy Resistance/Immunity do not prevent the damage. That's, that for the first question. As for a stronger version...I'm not too sure. The feat is pretty good as it is now I find.
PhaedrusXY 03-22-07, 08:32 PM	What kind of damage does a Magic Missile do? It does that.
deadman1204 03-22-07, 08:55 PM	its much more powerful than your taking into account It lasts the full round - so if you have 3 attacks, a 3rd lvl spell gives an extra 3d4. Plus its unresistable.
PhaedrusXY 03-22-07, 10:25 PM	its much more powerful than your taking into account It lasts the full round - so if you have 3 attacks, a 3rd lvl spell gives an extra 3d4. Plus its unresistable.It also boosts your attack roll, which means it goes wonderfully well with Power Attack (especially if you're using a two-handed weapon). I thought the attack bonus was +2 per spell level sacrificed, also. With 2-handed Power Attack, this translates into a +4 damage bonus per spell level, for a total of 1d4+4 per spell level on each attack. It is very good for gish builds. I don't know why anything else would ever bother taking it, though.
diegosephroth 03-24-07, 02:55 PM	I don't know why anything else would ever bother taking it, though. Arcane Strike + haste + dancing/spellstoring weapon + Tenser's transformation = ONE HUNDRED BILLION DAMAGE? I have this spellsword/rage mage npc and I'm working on this combo. Seems quiet good.
serow_#R 03-24-07, 09:44 PM	You lose access to all your spells during Tensor's Transformation, so how are you doing to Arcane Strike with that?
PhaedrusXY 03-24-07, 09:47 PM	You lose access to all your spells during Tensor's Transformation, so how are you doing to Arcane Strike with that?You don't actually cast the spells with Arcane Strike, so I could see some DMs allowing it. (I probably would, but I'm pretty permissive.) It still sure as hell doesn't add up to 100 billion damage, though, unless you can afford 4 billion dancing swords somehow. :P
paladin2019 03-24-07, 10:58 PM	If a damage type is not listed, I would assume it does the same damage as the weapon...unnamed damage. Unless there is something specific in the feat description, I don't see why DR would not apply, nor why incorporealness would be overcome. But a 3rd level spell sacrificed, a +3 (or +6) to hit and 3d4 extra damage per attack, that's still nice.
PhaedrusXY 03-24-07, 11:02 PM	If a damage type is not listed, I would assume it does the same damage as the weapon...unnamed damage. Weapons don't do unnamed damage. Go look at the weapons table. They all have a damage type listed (Piercing/Bludgeoning/Slashing). Also, someone already stated that the feat says it does "Arcane Energy". That sounds more like it would be doing some kind of magical damage, instead of physical (like weapons).
paladin2019 03-24-07, 11:23 PM	Weapons don't do unnamed damage. Go look at the weapons table. They all have a damage type listed (Piercing/Bludgeoning/Slashing). Also, someone already stated that the feat says it does "Arcane Energy". That sounds more like it would be doing some kind of magical damage, instead of physical (like weapons). Arcane energy is an undefined term. The five energy types are acid, cold, electricity, fire and sonic. They all defeat DR and are in turn defeated by specific energy resistances. Without the text of the feat, I would say it simply adds to the damage of the weapon. This is all one source of damage, so it becomes more effective at overcoming DR though.
PhaedrusXY 03-24-07, 11:28 PM	Arcane energy is an undefined term. The five energy types are acid, cold, electricity, fire and sonic. They all defeat DR and are in turn defeated by specific energy resistances. Without the text of the feat, I would say it simply adds to the damage of the weapon. This is all one source of damage, so it becomes more effective at overcoming DR though.There are also Force spells, which are not affected by DR or Energy Resistance. Horrid Wilting also does untyped "magic damage". Since the damage is explicitly called something (Arcane Energy), instead of just being left unnamed, and since there are magical effects in the game that do untyped "magic damage", I think the simplest interpretation based on the text is that it does untyped "magic damage".
paladin2019 03-24-07, 11:32 PM	There are also Force spells, which are not affected by DR or Energy Resistance. Horrid Wilting also does untyped "magic damage". Yes, force damage is another type of damage. All spell damage ignores DR. However, unless this feat specifies that it is still a spell damaging the target or is some type of energy of force damage, it should be treated the same as the weapon in the same manner as sneak attack, favored enemy, smiting, etc.
PhaedrusXY 03-24-07, 11:36 PM	However, unless this feat specifies that it is still a spell damaging the target or is some type of energy or force damageIt does say that. It says it does "Arcane Energy" damage. It is also fueled by sacrificing a spell, and it doesn't say anything about this just making you temporarily stronger, or making you swing harder. So I don't think you really have much of an argument, based on the text of the feat. For game balance purposes, or just your opinion, I could understand why you'd argue the way you are. But that isn't really related to what the feat says.
diegosephroth 03-25-07, 12:01 AM	uhm... dunno the spell really does not say anything but "channel arcane energy" it's just like divine might's "you channel energy" or smite...and in the end they're treated like extra physical damage con- you'll suffer from dmg reduction pros- you can score criticals + stacks with other stuff the feats are really not that specific so I believe it's up to the DM I particularly believe giving RAW MAGIC damage to someone for an entire round might end unballanced. Imagine a Dragon with dozens attacks spending a single spell slot and unleashing havok? So I house rulled that the char gains energy damage equal to the energy from the spell he's burning. If its not an energy spell, the damage he receives is pure physical-as teh weapon. He's not a sorcerer so I needed not to think about spontaneously casting(altough I believe it could work almost in the same manner- since the sorcerer would need to KNOW spells of a certain energy from a specific level if he wanted all energies ready anytime). about the other questions 1- You don't actually cast a spell. It does not say yuo need concentration.So you can be raging and still use it. 2- Even if you NEEDED to cast the spell, the rage mage is there for it. 3- Extra rage says in pre requisite that I must have "rage or frenzy class feature". Could I benefit from extra rage with the spell fury from Rage Mage? What about Warrior Cry(It's a kinda of rage in the end)?
paladin2019 03-25-07, 12:12 AM	It does say that. It says it does "Arcane Energy" damage. Arcane is not an energy type. Arcane energy does not exist in the rules, merely as fluff in the feat. Therefore, the only other option I see is like smite, favored enemy, sneak attack, etc. And because the bonus is represented by dice rather than a fixed number, it shouldn't multiply on a critical, either.
stsword 03-26-07, 10:21 PM	Arcane is not an energy type. Arcane energy does not exist in the rules, merely as fluff in the feat. Therefore, the only other option I see is like smite, favored enemy, sneak attack, etc. If attacks cannot be a manifestation of pure magical energy, than just what do Archmages convert their spells into?
starfire311 03-26-07, 11:02 PM	If attacks cannot be a manifestation of pure magical energy, than just what do Archmages convert their spells into? well since they are using their hands to cast the spell errr abilitiy, and hands do bludgeoning damage, then the archmage does bludgeoning damage with his abilities.
warbird106 03-28-07, 08:30 PM	I have a duskblade, and this is the combo i use: True Strike (+20 atk roll)+Arcane Strike+Power Atk (+6 damage)+Shocking Grasp (5d6)+Fullblade 2d8+6=almost impossible to miss 5d6+2d8+12+xd4. Max damage=78
J_Riley 03-29-07, 10:24 AM	Where Arcane Strike really gets nuts is in an AoO build, since the bonus applies to ALL attacks in a round and a round is until your next turn. A reach weapon fighter with DEX 16 and Combat Reflexes and no significant other buffs/combos can dish out an additional 12d4 damage