Arcane Thesis and Improved Metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Thesis and Improved Metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dragon221284
11-27-07, 07:45 AM Could I reduce with Arcane Thesis and Improved Metamagic (!) the cost for e.g. empowered Spell (+2) to zero? Arcane Thesis says YES (you could reduce the cost below zero!) and Improved Metamagic says NO….

Thx for help
runestar
11-27-07, 09:36 AM To be honest, I can't say for sure now.

While the errata for arcane thesis makes no mention of the feat not allowing you to reduce a slot adjustment to zero, nothing explicitly allows this either, and does not appear to contradict an earlier FAQ ruling stating that you may not reduce a slot adjustment to zero or less.

Still, I would give it the benefit of a doubt.:P
NoldorForce
11-27-07, 10:20 AM Yes. You just apply Improved Metamagic before Arcane Thesis.As a general guideline, whenever the rules don’t stipulate an order of operations for special effects (such as spells or special abilities), you should apply them in the order that’s most beneficial to the “controller” of the effect.And the FAQ ruling made no mention of the ability to reduce an adjustment to nothing - it simply stated (as was placed in the errata) that you couldn't go under the original spell level.
BloodAdvocateReincarnated
11-27-07, 09:35 PM The same could be accomplished by Metaschool Focus found in complete mage. Basically it reduced the cost of applying metamagic feat to spells of a specific school

...This reminds me of a particularly munchin character I once made using the Halruuan Adept from Shinning South (get an ability which reduces the cost of a specific metamagic feat)...

I normally DM, but after a peculiar debacle with some of my PC's is showed them that it can be frustrating to DM for munchkin's if all they care about is power and optimisation and no story.

Anyway, yes it can be as mentioned above and in more than one way. As I DM i would be very wary about allowing this tough (but for Arcane Thesis tough I wouldnt mind since it's just one spell)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dragon221284 11-27-07, 07:45 AM	Could I reduce with Arcane Thesis and Improved Metamagic (!) the cost for e.g. empowered Spell (+2) to zero? Arcane Thesis says YES (you could reduce the cost below zero!) and Improved Metamagic says NO…. Thx for help
runestar 11-27-07, 09:36 AM	To be honest, I can't say for sure now. While the errata for arcane thesis makes no mention of the feat not allowing you to reduce a slot adjustment to zero, nothing explicitly allows this either, and does not appear to contradict an earlier FAQ ruling stating that you may not reduce a slot adjustment to zero or less. Still, I would give it the benefit of a doubt.:P
NoldorForce 11-27-07, 10:20 AM	Yes. You just apply Improved Metamagic before Arcane Thesis.As a general guideline, whenever the rules don’t stipulate an order of operations for special effects (such as spells or special abilities), you should apply them in the order that’s most beneficial to the “controller” of the effect.And the FAQ ruling made no mention of the ability to reduce an adjustment to nothing - it simply stated (as was placed in the errata) that you couldn't go under the original spell level.
BloodAdvocateReincarnated 11-27-07, 09:35 PM	The same could be accomplished by Metaschool Focus found in complete mage. Basically it reduced the cost of applying metamagic feat to spells of a specific school ...This reminds me of a particularly munchin character I once made using the Halruuan Adept from Shinning South (get an ability which reduces the cost of a specific metamagic feat)... I normally DM, but after a peculiar debacle with some of my PC's is showed them that it can be frustrating to DM for munchkin's if all they care about is power and optimisation and no story. Anyway, yes it can be as mentioned above and in more than one way. As I DM i would be very wary about allowing this tough (but for Arcane Thesis tough I wouldnt mind since it's just one spell)