Archers and Snatch Arrows [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archers and Snatch Arrows [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Enderlaand
02-27-07, 03:09 PM I've read the descriptions of the bow weapons as well as most of the archer related feats that are open content. I've also read the Snatch Arrows feat description.

It seems that the descriptions are pretty specific that you need two hands to use a bow, and that you need a free hand to use snatch arrows, but I can't get it out of my head that an archer should be able to snatch an arrow and then fire it back the next turn.
I guess that basically I don't believe that an archer is always using both hands for the bow.

Can someone help me with this.
tarkin
02-27-07, 03:51 PM It is a free action to switch grips on your weapon.

The DM determines how many you can get, and I see zero problem on letting a player:

1. start off holding the bow in one hand, leaving one free.

2. At the beggining of his turn, changing his grip to be using the bow with bow hands.

3. At the end of his turn, change his grip back to just holding the bow.

As you can not take AoOs anyway, there is no real problem with this strategy.

Notice it leaves one hand free to snatch an arrow.
jadehawk
02-27-07, 05:43 PM I agree,

That being said, the only time a character wielding a two handed weapon would really be unable to snatch arrows in this manner would be if the attacker readied the action to fire when the arrow snatcher had his hands full. Basically if you are firing an arrow at someone who has readied their action to fire theirs at you, his attack would land first (as per the readied action), but for all intents and purposes of snatch arrow, the attacks would be simultaneous, meaning neither characters could snatch the other character's arrow.
Enderlaand
02-28-07, 10:26 AM Thank you both very much. Now for my next question.

Is this worth taking? Is it worth it for a Fighter Archer build to take deflect and snatch arrows?
tarkin
02-28-07, 11:07 AM It is a defensive feat, and suffers from the typical defensive feat problems:

1) It's usefullness depeneds on what the enemey does. If he does not have this method of attack, you can't use the feat, and gain nothing from it.

2) Even if he does have this method, if he sees you do it once, he can swithc to another combat style, again, you lose the value of the feat.

The real value of feats is usually in specialization, where you spend multiple feats/abilities to enhance a specific power. Issues 1 and 2 make this unwise with defensive feats.
mcnoo
02-28-07, 11:10 AM Well, if you're good at keeping out of the way of the hand to hand, then your main worries are going to be ranged weapons. (and spells, but that's everyone's problem)
On the flipside though, if you expect to be ambushed or snuck up upon, landing you toe to toe with a nasty more often than you're shot at, it's always nice to be able to draw an emergency longsword and mosh.

Simply put, yes, it's very handy, but think about how much you want to specialize.
Enderlaand
02-28-07, 11:57 AM So, I guess what you're saying is that if I can get it without spending valuable feats, it'll be cool, but other than that, don't waste my time.

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know.
Lazzar
03-03-07, 08:21 PM If the arrow is fired at you after you loose your arrow, you should be good.

But, I'd say that you lose a move action the next round as, you would interupt your normal reload reflex and and have to spin the arrow around to fire the one you snatched.

Should work. Your hand is free once your arrow is loosed.
paladin2019
03-03-07, 09:23 PM It is a free action to switch grips on your weapon.

The DM determines how many you can get, and I see zero problem on letting a player:

1. start off holding the bow in one hand, leaving one free.

2. At the beggining of his turn, changing his grip to be using the bow with bow hands.

3. At the end of his turn, change his grip back to just holding the bow.

As you can not take AoOs anyway, there is no real problem with this strategy.

IIRC, Deflect Arrows requires Improved Unarmed Strike. Thus, would threaten areas within reach regardless of whether or not both hands were occupied with objects that can't be used as a melee weapon.
HomebrewedMonster
03-03-07, 10:26 PM I believe the reason you are considered to be holding the bow for the entire round because its only 6 seconds long.

Go in your backyard and buy a toy bow at toys'r'us or something and try to shoot the toy bow (no where near the same draw as a real bow) twice in 6 seconds (2nd level ranger or fighter has rapid shot).

This is why you do not have a free hand, its just realistic. BUT, for the fun factor and having a badass character I would make it an opposed attack roll or if you are using action points you'd have to burn one.
Enderlaand
03-04-07, 07:16 AM Thanks, but I have my answer already.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Enderlaand 02-27-07, 03:09 PM	I've read the descriptions of the bow weapons as well as most of the archer related feats that are open content. I've also read the Snatch Arrows feat description. It seems that the descriptions are pretty specific that you need two hands to use a bow, and that you need a free hand to use snatch arrows, but I can't get it out of my head that an archer should be able to snatch an arrow and then fire it back the next turn. I guess that basically I don't believe that an archer is always using both hands for the bow. Can someone help me with this.
tarkin 02-27-07, 03:51 PM	It is a free action to switch grips on your weapon. The DM determines how many you can get, and I see zero problem on letting a player: 1. start off holding the bow in one hand, leaving one free. 2. At the beggining of his turn, changing his grip to be using the bow with bow hands. 3. At the end of his turn, change his grip back to just holding the bow. As you can not take AoOs anyway, there is no real problem with this strategy. Notice it leaves one hand free to snatch an arrow.
jadehawk 02-27-07, 05:43 PM	I agree, That being said, the only time a character wielding a two handed weapon would really be unable to snatch arrows in this manner would be if the attacker readied the action to fire when the arrow snatcher had his hands full. Basically if you are firing an arrow at someone who has readied their action to fire theirs at you, his attack would land first (as per the readied action), but for all intents and purposes of snatch arrow, the attacks would be simultaneous, meaning neither characters could snatch the other character's arrow.
Enderlaand 02-28-07, 10:26 AM	Thank you both very much. Now for my next question. Is this worth taking? Is it worth it for a Fighter Archer build to take deflect and snatch arrows?
tarkin 02-28-07, 11:07 AM	It is a defensive feat, and suffers from the typical defensive feat problems: 1) It's usefullness depeneds on what the enemey does. If he does not have this method of attack, you can't use the feat, and gain nothing from it. 2) Even if he does have this method, if he sees you do it once, he can swithc to another combat style, again, you lose the value of the feat. The real value of feats is usually in specialization, where you spend multiple feats/abilities to enhance a specific power. Issues 1 and 2 make this unwise with defensive feats.
mcnoo 02-28-07, 11:10 AM	Well, if you're good at keeping out of the way of the hand to hand, then your main worries are going to be ranged weapons. (and spells, but that's everyone's problem) On the flipside though, if you expect to be ambushed or snuck up upon, landing you toe to toe with a nasty more often than you're shot at, it's always nice to be able to draw an emergency longsword and mosh. Simply put, yes, it's very handy, but think about how much you want to specialize.
Enderlaand 02-28-07, 11:57 AM	So, I guess what you're saying is that if I can get it without spending valuable feats, it'll be cool, but other than that, don't waste my time. Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know.
Lazzar 03-03-07, 08:21 PM	If the arrow is fired at you after you loose your arrow, you should be good. But, I'd say that you lose a move action the next round as, you would interupt your normal reload reflex and and have to spin the arrow around to fire the one you snatched. Should work. Your hand is free once your arrow is loosed.
paladin2019 03-03-07, 09:23 PM	It is a free action to switch grips on your weapon. The DM determines how many you can get, and I see zero problem on letting a player: 1. start off holding the bow in one hand, leaving one free. 2. At the beggining of his turn, changing his grip to be using the bow with bow hands. 3. At the end of his turn, change his grip back to just holding the bow. As you can not take AoOs anyway, there is no real problem with this strategy. IIRC, Deflect Arrows requires Improved Unarmed Strike. Thus, would threaten areas within reach regardless of whether or not both hands were occupied with objects that can't be used as a melee weapon.
HomebrewedMonster 03-03-07, 10:26 PM	I believe the reason you are considered to be holding the bow for the entire round because its only 6 seconds long. Go in your backyard and buy a toy bow at toys'r'us or something and try to shoot the toy bow (no where near the same draw as a real bow) twice in 6 seconds (2nd level ranger or fighter has rapid shot). This is why you do not have a free hand, its just realistic. BUT, for the fun factor and having a badass character I would make it an opposed attack roll or if you are using action points you'd have to burn one.
Enderlaand 03-04-07, 07:16 AM	Thanks, but I have my answer already.