Are there any feats to Flat-Foot an enemy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are there any feats to Flat-Foot an enemy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Red_Wizards_Rock
02-19-08, 03:42 PM I'm trying to find a feat to make an enemy flat-footed, any help is great. Thx a bunch!
dman11235
02-19-08, 03:49 PM There's a skill trick, but no feat. That feat would be too powerful on its own. The other ways are spells, and feats that help you hide.
toucanbuzz
02-19-08, 04:22 PM There's no such feat, though there are several ways to deny someone a Dex bonus, which allows sneak attacks.

Flat-footed is a condition of having not taken an action in combat. Therefore, when the subject is out of combat or believes it is out of combat, it is again flat-footed. I disagree with some "theories" that one can be flat-footed with one enemy but not flat-footed with another. That makes no sense and is a headache for a DM. Either a subject has acted or not acted in combat is the condition to be flat footed.

Anyhow, depending on your class, hiding from your foe so that he thinks you are gone, illusions, invisibility, etc. are all great ways to convince a foe there is no immediate danger and they relax enough to be considered "done" with the encounter.

(The Feat Improved Feint is good for a rogue to deny a dex bonus to an opponent; it's not automatic but a good rogue should be ok pulling it off).
Silvercrys
02-19-08, 04:40 PM Actually, there's a feat called "Flick of the Wrist" in Complete Warrior. It allows you to make an opponent flat-footed for one attack if you quick draw a light weapon. It only works once per encounter though, if I recall correctly.
Orenmir
02-19-08, 04:47 PM Flick of the Wrist works, but only once per round and once per opponent per encounter. There also some other ways to make your opponent lose his dex bonus to AC (which is almost the same as being flat-footed). Feint was mentioned; grappling works too. IMO, best way to make your opponent flat-footed -- win initiative. Improved Initiative, high dex, dex enhancing items, Bracers of Blinding Strike, you get the idea.
Egres
02-19-08, 05:13 PM Try also Raptor's School, in the Complete Warrior, Chord of Distraction in Complete Scondrel, and Surprising Riposte in Drow of the Underdark.
InkBlot
02-19-08, 05:28 PM Flat-footed is a condition of having not taken an action in combat. Therefore, when the subject is out of combat or believes it is out of combat, it is again flat-footed. I disagree with some "theories" that one can be flat-footed with one enemy but not flat-footed with another. That makes no sense and is a headache for a DM. Either a subject has acted or not acted in combat is the condition to be flat footed.

Standing on a slippery surface makes you flat-footed if you don't have at least 5 ranks in balance (PHB p67). It's pretty easy to make a creature flat-footed in the middle of combat by casting grease (a 1st level sorc/wiz spell) on the floor under it's feet.

You're probably confusing being flat-footed with being surprised. All creatures who are surprised are flat footed, but not all creatures that are flat footed are surprised.
Tordak
02-20-08, 08:37 AM There's also mercurial strike (feat, Dragon Compendium), which works in a way similar to flick of wrist.

Low Blow and Improved Low Blow (Forgotten Realms, player's guide to faerun I think) allow you to enter the square of an enemy one size category larger. It provokes an attack of opportunity if you don't have improved low blow, but you get to make an attack and your opponent is flat-footed against it. It's a full round action. You can use it as much as you want.
toucanbuzz
02-20-08, 10:37 AM "Flat-Footed" according to the SRD:

A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, not yet reacting normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

Under "Intiative":

At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.

However, flat-footed is oddly contrasted under the Balance skill which reads balancing as being "flat-footed" when more appropriately it should define it as being denied a Dexterity bonus since you can take turns in combat and still be balancing. (Suppose it is also to negate your ability to take AoO during a balancing act).

Wizards gives me headaches sometimes!

Anyhow, out of the basic rules there are feats, though I let in Flick of the Wrist once and felt it was being abused a bit (player claimed they could throw a dagger for sneak attack damage on an aware opponent with this feat and then pull out a new dagger, wash and repeat...) Suppose that's why I went to the rule 'if I don't own the book, I don't use it.'

Also, heard of a feat called "Quicker than the Eye" which allows a Bluff/Feint and ability to still get your full round attacks so that every attack would be sneak attack if you successfully did the Feint. Not sure which sourcebook.
Novabomb
02-20-08, 10:58 AM Additionally Martial Study: Sapphire Nightmare Blade
Merestil Haye
02-20-08, 04:41 PM Being flat-footed has the following mechanical effects. The creature is denied any Dex bonus to AC.
It cannot take attacks of opportunity.It's possible to produce both these conditions in a few ways; when that happens the creature is labelled as "flat-footed" as a shorthand to indicate both these conditions are true.

The Rules Compendium uses flat-footed in this way when talking about one creature hidden from another. (This is also the case if one creature is invisible and the other has no means of detecting it.)

I don't like it, even though it conveys the status of the combatant in few word, because the phrase has such significant connotations involving speed of reaction. Better to have found another phrase or spelt the two conditions out.
Mr_Teapot
02-20-08, 06:31 PM Additionally Martial Study: Sapphire Nightmare Blade

If you just want to sneak attack, Distracting Ember is better. A swift action that'll make them flanked for the whole round and won't require investing ranks in Concentration (possibly cross-class ranks).

If you need flat-footed specifically, though, it won't help. I think some more higher level maneuvers might also make things flat-footed, but Diamond Nightmare Blade is easy to qualify for as a rogue type.
Suspect_Unusual
02-21-08, 04:47 PM If you just want to sneak attack, Distracting Ember is better. A swift action that'll make them flanked for the whole round and won't require investing ranks in Concentration (possibly cross-class ranks).

If you need flat-footed specifically, though, it won't help. I think some more higher level maneuvers might also make things flat-footed, but Diamond Nightmare Blade is easy to qualify for as a rogue type.

There's Ghost Blade from the Shadow Hand discipline, but that's either 5th or 6th level, and only one attack.
Novabomb
02-21-08, 11:44 PM If you need flat-footed specifically, though, it won't help. I think some more higher level maneuvers might also make things flat-footed, but Diamond Nightmare Blade is easy to qualify for as a rogue type.

Diamond Nightmare Blade does not create the flatfooted condition, Sapphire does however, I do not believe it has preqs (aside from initiator level 1)
Mr_Teapot
02-22-08, 12:29 PM Diamond Nightmare Blade does not create the flatfooted condition, Sapphire does however, I do not believe it has preqs (aside from initiator level 1)

Yeah, that was just me getting the Nightmare Blade maneuvers confused. I should have written Sapphire, since I was talking about the same maneuver you were.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Red_Wizards_Rock 02-19-08, 03:42 PM	I'm trying to find a feat to make an enemy flat-footed, any help is great. Thx a bunch!
dman11235 02-19-08, 03:49 PM	There's a skill trick, but no feat. That feat would be too powerful on its own. The other ways are spells, and feats that help you hide.
toucanbuzz 02-19-08, 04:22 PM	There's no such feat, though there are several ways to deny someone a Dex bonus, which allows sneak attacks. Flat-footed is a condition of having not taken an action in combat. Therefore, when the subject is out of combat or believes it is out of combat, it is again flat-footed. I disagree with some "theories" that one can be flat-footed with one enemy but not flat-footed with another. That makes no sense and is a headache for a DM. Either a subject has acted or not acted in combat is the condition to be flat footed. Anyhow, depending on your class, hiding from your foe so that he thinks you are gone, illusions, invisibility, etc. are all great ways to convince a foe there is no immediate danger and they relax enough to be considered "done" with the encounter. (The Feat Improved Feint is good for a rogue to deny a dex bonus to an opponent; it's not automatic but a good rogue should be ok pulling it off).
Silvercrys 02-19-08, 04:40 PM	Actually, there's a feat called "Flick of the Wrist" in Complete Warrior. It allows you to make an opponent flat-footed for one attack if you quick draw a light weapon. It only works once per encounter though, if I recall correctly.
Orenmir 02-19-08, 04:47 PM	Flick of the Wrist works, but only once per round and once per opponent per encounter. There also some other ways to make your opponent lose his dex bonus to AC (which is almost the same as being flat-footed). Feint was mentioned; grappling works too. IMO, best way to make your opponent flat-footed -- win initiative. Improved Initiative, high dex, dex enhancing items, Bracers of Blinding Strike, you get the idea.
Egres 02-19-08, 05:13 PM	Try also Raptor's School, in the Complete Warrior, Chord of Distraction in Complete Scondrel, and Surprising Riposte in Drow of the Underdark.
InkBlot 02-19-08, 05:28 PM	Flat-footed is a condition of having not taken an action in combat. Therefore, when the subject is out of combat or believes it is out of combat, it is again flat-footed. I disagree with some "theories" that one can be flat-footed with one enemy but not flat-footed with another. That makes no sense and is a headache for a DM. Either a subject has acted or not acted in combat is the condition to be flat footed. Standing on a slippery surface makes you flat-footed if you don't have at least 5 ranks in balance (PHB p67). It's pretty easy to make a creature flat-footed in the middle of combat by casting grease (a 1st level sorc/wiz spell) on the floor under it's feet. You're probably confusing being flat-footed with being surprised. All creatures who are surprised are flat footed, but not all creatures that are flat footed are surprised.
Tordak 02-20-08, 08:37 AM	There's also mercurial strike (feat, Dragon Compendium), which works in a way similar to flick of wrist. Low Blow and Improved Low Blow (Forgotten Realms, player's guide to faerun I think) allow you to enter the square of an enemy one size category larger. It provokes an attack of opportunity if you don't have improved low blow, but you get to make an attack and your opponent is flat-footed against it. It's a full round action. You can use it as much as you want.
toucanbuzz 02-20-08, 10:37 AM	"Flat-Footed" according to the SRD: A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, not yet reacting normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity. Under "Intiative": At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. However, flat-footed is oddly contrasted under the Balance skill which reads balancing as being "flat-footed" when more appropriately it should define it as being denied a Dexterity bonus since you can take turns in combat and still be balancing. (Suppose it is also to negate your ability to take AoO during a balancing act). Wizards gives me headaches sometimes! Anyhow, out of the basic rules there are feats, though I let in Flick of the Wrist once and felt it was being abused a bit (player claimed they could throw a dagger for sneak attack damage on an aware opponent with this feat and then pull out a new dagger, wash and repeat...) Suppose that's why I went to the rule 'if I don't own the book, I don't use it.' Also, heard of a feat called "Quicker than the Eye" which allows a Bluff/Feint and ability to still get your full round attacks so that every attack would be sneak attack if you successfully did the Feint. Not sure which sourcebook.
Novabomb 02-20-08, 10:58 AM	Additionally Martial Study: Sapphire Nightmare Blade
Merestil Haye 02-20-08, 04:41 PM	Being flat-footed has the following mechanical effects. The creature is denied any Dex bonus to AC. It cannot take attacks of opportunity.It's possible to produce both these conditions in a few ways; when that happens the creature is labelled as "flat-footed" as a shorthand to indicate both these conditions are true. The Rules Compendium uses flat-footed in this way when talking about one creature hidden from another. (This is also the case if one creature is invisible and the other has no means of detecting it.) I don't like it, even though it conveys the status of the combatant in few word, because the phrase has such significant connotations involving speed of reaction. Better to have found another phrase or spelt the two conditions out.
Mr_Teapot 02-20-08, 06:31 PM	Additionally Martial Study: Sapphire Nightmare Blade If you just want to sneak attack, Distracting Ember is better. A swift action that'll make them flanked for the whole round and won't require investing ranks in Concentration (possibly cross-class ranks). If you need flat-footed specifically, though, it won't help. I think some more higher level maneuvers might also make things flat-footed, but Diamond Nightmare Blade is easy to qualify for as a rogue type.
Suspect_Unusual 02-21-08, 04:47 PM	If you just want to sneak attack, Distracting Ember is better. A swift action that'll make them flanked for the whole round and won't require investing ranks in Concentration (possibly cross-class ranks). If you need flat-footed specifically, though, it won't help. I think some more higher level maneuvers might also make things flat-footed, but Diamond Nightmare Blade is easy to qualify for as a rogue type. There's Ghost Blade from the Shadow Hand discipline, but that's either 5th or 6th level, and only one attack.
Novabomb 02-21-08, 11:44 PM	If you need flat-footed specifically, though, it won't help. I think some more higher level maneuvers might also make things flat-footed, but Diamond Nightmare Blade is easy to qualify for as a rogue type. Diamond Nightmare Blade does not create the flatfooted condition, Sapphire does however, I do not believe it has preqs (aside from initiator level 1)
Mr_Teapot 02-22-08, 12:29 PM	Diamond Nightmare Blade does not create the flatfooted condition, Sapphire does however, I do not believe it has preqs (aside from initiator level 1) Yeah, that was just me getting the Nightmare Blade maneuvers confused. I should have written Sapphire, since I was talking about the same maneuver you were.