Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lyndis 02-04-08, 11:35 PM	The Animal Devotion feat seems very good. I can choose from a variety of benefits with each use, allowing me to make myself stronger, or faster, or flying, or even able to ability damage with a bite. As a Paladin, you aren't going to use turns to actually hurt undead, so this seems like a very good idea. So, the questions are 1 - Is Animal Devotion worth a feat? 2 - Can I activate it multiple times per round if I have levels in Ruby Knight Vindicator and can use multiple swift actions per round? 3 - On another matter, is the Underdark Knight alternative class feature worth trading in the Special Mount for? It is from Complete Champion, just like the Animal Devotion feat. Faster speed is always good, since your normal speed is reduced in heavy armor. Spike Stones isn't bad I guess. The real gem is the 12th level power that lets you glide through earth as easily as a fish moves through water. Perfect for ambushes if you buy an Ioun stone that makes it so you don't have to breathe or buy a Bottle of Air. I guess that question is really dependant on the campaign, but I've never realyl been abl to use a warhorse in the past. They kind of just get in the way.
dman11235 02-04-08, 11:55 PM	It does say that more than one ability can be active at one time. And yes it is worth a feat. A feat that gives you +8 strength (at later levels)? The other abilities aren't so hot though.Other domain feats are also nice. Knowledge, Air (can be very good), Destruction, Chaos, Law, Plant, Protection, Travel, are all good for domain feats, depending on your goal. Battle Blessing is a must for spell casting Paladins, Touch of Healing can be quite useful, and Holy Warrior if you can get a domain. 3: I'm not sure. I can be worth it, but then so can the mount. I'd say 50/50, depending on the campaign. BTW: CChamp=let's make Paladins useful! Oh wait, it just made clerics ubererer.
Lyndis 02-05-08, 12:37 AM	+8 Sacred bonus no less, so it stacks with Bulls Strength or belt of giant strength. You don't think the Fly option is good? Might be decent to get around difficult terrain, since I am a charger. And yes, Battle Blessing is a must. I am hopefully going to play in a gestalt campaign where I will be a Paladin on one side and a Crusader/Barbarian/Ruby Knight Vindicator on the other. Full paladin spellcasting, all quickened, and I can cast as many spells as I want per round. Then, I charge with Pounce and things die. And if I can't charge, I've got other options. via Maneuvers. By the Way, do yo uthink Holy Sword is a good spell? by the time you get it, your weapon should be better than what it can offer I feel...
dman11235 02-05-08, 01:39 AM	It is good. Make your weapon a +1 with +9 worth of other abilities, and then cast holy sword: it becomes +5 with holy and +9 of other abilities. Add in Bless Weapon and you have some serious hurt for evil things. I don't think fly is a good option because Overland Flight isn't that great in combat...wait, I thought it did something completely different. It is a good option. With this build you are going to need a freaking lot of turn attempts: 1/ extra swift action you want, and 3/each additional time you want to use domain feats per day. Invest heavily in night sticks! EDIT: You'll want to not use the hawk one unless you need to, to conserve uses.
mplindustries 02-05-08, 01:50 AM	Personally, I think Knowledge is the very best devotion feat and all my characters have it since Complete Champion came out. For the less learned, I think Law Devotion requires some serious attention. That is a phenomenal bonus for very little effort. I'd definitely choose that over Animal, assuming I was power attacking (and what Paladin isn't?). As for the alternate feature, Underdark Knight is, I think, definitely worth replacing the mount with, but I'd replace the mount with almost anything. If you want the most bang for your buck, Charging Smite (PHB2) is the ultimate win. Straight Paladin is suddenly viable! Charging Smite + Full Leap Attacking Power Attack + Rhino's Rush (1st level Spell in Spell Compendium) = One-shot almost anything of "appropriate CR." For an example, lets go with a level 10 Paladin, with 18 Strength and Charisma using a +2 Greatsword. And hey, lets get Law Devotion in on it ;) +17 to hit 7(Average of 2d6) + 2 (Enhancement) + 6 (Strength) + 30 (Leaping PA) + 10 (Smite) + 20 (Charging Smite) = 75 damage With Rhino's Rush, thats an average of 150 damage. That drops all CR 10 monsters in the SRD except for the True Dragons and the Colossal Animate Object. And it should bring the Dragons to single digits, meaning it can one shot them, and it will if you can add a few more damage (Collision Greatsword perhaps?)
Father Dale 02-05-08, 01:59 AM	Personally I think Charging Smite is the best alternative to having a mount. As said above, combine it with leap attack for extra oomph. Although I'm still partial to the spirited charging paladin on a celestial pegasus.... Holy Sword will override any and all other magical enhancements of a weapon, doesn't matter what they might be. If you cast it on a weapon it does just what the spell says it does and no more. It is a powerful spell though, but fortunately a paladin can prepare different spells everyday, so if you have a great weapon just prepare something else; or, if you know you will need its type of benefits, have it at the ready. Generally though at the level you can cast it you should probably have a pretty darn good weapon anyways, but its nice to have the option to have a +5 holy weapon when you need one.
Lyndis 02-05-08, 02:49 AM	I don't think I need to one shot it...since I get 3 attacks per round from Pounce. granted, not all may hit, but 2 should be enough. And then, that's why I also have an entirePARTY backing me up :D although, after giving this some thought, I decided that it's not worth it to get 7 levels of RKV just to get swift actions from turns. I thiking of a non-initiatior build instead. It's gestalt, and looks like this. 1-4 Cloistered Cleric / Knight (prestige Paladin requires Mounted combat) 5-8 Prestige Paladin / Variant barbarian (Lion + Wolf) 9-11 Divine Oracle / Generic Fighter (Good Reflex) Will take the standars shock trooper, and also Mage Slayer (and Practiced Spellcaster). Lion Barb for Pounce. Wolf barbarian gives me improved trip without combat expertise at Barb level 2. Dm requires us to take 4 levels of a class before letting us get out. Hopefully DM will allow Battle Blessing to work with prestige paladin. Domains can give me EWP: Spiked Chain and Extra Turning. Travel Devotion and Animal Devotion will both ensure I have plenty of things to do with my swift actions. This is what I calla lock-down charger that can cast quickened buffs.
dman11235 02-05-08, 11:22 AM	Without RKV, you are going to take a long time to get set up for everything, and it's not going to be real viable to use tons of domain feats. Also, I guess I just forgot about the fact that Holy Sword overrides everything. Never mind, it's a terrible spell.
Lyndis 02-05-08, 11:15 PM	What buffs do I really need as a paladin anyways? I'm not sure I can convince my DM to let me go RVK with cleric spells and break the game.
jaelis 02-05-08, 11:43 PM	n/m
dman11235 02-06-08, 12:33 PM	The domain feats? Bless Weapon. Divine Favor. Death ward is a possible, as is grt magic weapon, but that one can be cast at the begining of the day. Golden Barding for your mount, but again, begining of day. Silverbeard, Checkmate's Light (it's like grt mg weapon, but easier to get a higher enhancement bonus for a paladin), Shield of Warding, Weapon of the Deity is a possibility and then Righteous Aura and Winged Mount are iffy.
R3quiem 02-09-08, 03:30 PM	Charging Smite + Full Leap Attacking Power Attack + Rhino's Rush (1st level Spell in Spell Compendium) = One-shot almost anything of "appropriate CR." For an example, lets go with a level 10 Paladin, with 18 Strength and Charisma using a +2 Greatsword. And hey, lets get Law Devotion in on it ;) +17 to hit 7(Average of 2d6) + 2 (Enhancement) + 6 (Strength) + 30 (Leaping PA) + 10 (Smite) + 20 (Charging Smite) = 75 damage With Rhino's Rush, thats an average of 150 damage. That drops all CR 10 monsters in the SRD except for the True Dragons and the Colossal Animate Object. And it should bring the Dragons to single digits, meaning it can one shot them, and it will if you can add a few more damage (Collision Greatsword perhaps?) Doesn't the leaping attack feat require 8 ranks in jump? Paladin's don't have jump as a skill, so wouldn't you need a level in fighter or something? Or is there another way you are getting the necessary jump skill?
mplindustries 02-09-08, 03:49 PM	Doesn't the leaping attack feat require 8 ranks in jump? Paladin's don't have jump as a skill, so wouldn't you need a level in fighter or something? Or is there another way you are getting the necessary jump skill? Well, it was an arbitrary example, but yeah, I tend to forget class skills because I hate them and don't use them. Charging Smite isn't any less awesome though. I will never understand why paladin's apparently can't jump, and fighters can't interact with people in a way that isn't intimidating, etc. Oh well.
R3quiem 02-09-08, 04:18 PM	Well, it was an arbitrary example, but yeah, I tend to forget class skills because I hate them and don't use them. Charging Smite isn't any less awesome though. I will never understand why paladin's apparently can't jump, and fighters can't interact with people in a way that isn't intimidating, etc. Oh well. Ok, I see. How do stacking rules work in this example? Sometimes I get confused as to what things will double and which do not. Does Rhino's rush really double EVERYTHING in the charge, including the smite and the leaping power attack damage? I'm interested because I may use the idea for a paladin but I want to know how it works.
mplindustries 02-09-08, 04:55 PM	Ok, I see. How do stacking rules work in this example? Sometimes I get confused as to what things will double and which do not. Does Rhino's rush really double EVERYTHING in the charge, including the smite and the leaping power attack damage? I'm interested because I may use the idea for a paladin but I want to know how it works. It doubles everything that isn't expressed in bonus dice. So, it would double smite and power attack and strength and base weapon dice, etc. It would not double Sneak Attack or anything of that nature. If you score a critical hit for x2 damage when you use a rhino's rush, the multipliers add, so you would not do x4, but rather x3. So, yes, it really does work that way. Charging Smite is great. Oh, but remember that Rhino's Rush only works on the first attack on a charge, so pouncing doesn't help. Well, no, it helps, just not quite as much.
justicar347 02-16-08, 04:54 PM	The Animal Devotion feat seems very good. I can choose from a variety of benefits with each use, allowing me to make myself stronger, or faster, or flying, or even able to ability damage with a bite. As a Paladin, you aren't going to use turns to actually hurt undead, so this seems like a very good idea. So, the questions are 1 - Is Animal Devotion worth a feat? 2 - Can I activate it multiple times per round if I have levels in Ruby Knight Vindicator and can use multiple swift actions per round? 3 - On another matter, is the Underdark Knight alternative class feature worth trading in the Special Mount for? It is from Complete Champion, just like the Animal Devotion feat. Faster speed is always good, since your normal speed is reduced in heavy armor. Spike Stones isn't bad I guess. The real gem is the 12th level power that lets you glide through earth as easily as a fish moves through water. Perfect for ambushes if you buy an Ioun stone that makes it so you don't have to breathe or buy a Bottle of Air. I guess that question is really dependant on the campaign, but I've never realyl been abl to use a warhorse in the past. They kind of just get in the way. I'm just wondering why a Paladin has animal devotion, but then does not want a special mount. Just a though.
dman11235 02-16-08, 05:06 PM	I'm just wondering why a Paladin has animal devotion, but then does not want a special mount. Just a though. Shhh. Why does that Cleric of Pelor have Animal Devotion? Or any other devotion for that matter besides healing, strength, sun, and good? Because those are all not worth it, save for Sun against undead.
Lyndis 02-17-08, 05:58 PM	I actually ended up keeping a mount. It's a Juvenile Fang Dragon instead of a horse, and it gets none of the Paladin special mount bonuses.
dman11235 02-17-08, 06:16 PM	But it's a dragon. That deals con damage. That's pretty nice. EDIT: what level are you? Also, try to up the DC of the breath weapon as much as possible. That con damage is delicious.
Lyndis 02-18-08, 01:46 AM	How do I up it? I don't know how it would advance or gain HD. If I get to chosoe one of its later feats I'll take ability focus I guess. I'm level 11 myself.
dman11235 02-18-08, 12:38 PM	Up its con, Ability Focus. There might be another way to do it in SS or Draconomicon.