Armed Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Armed Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wolfshade
09-28-07, 03:56 AM Is there a feat that allows monks do use their unarmed damage instead of weapon damage when wielding a weapon?
Bopple
09-28-07, 04:20 AM Simple Weapon Proficiency(gauntlet) does it, though it's gauntlet-only.
concerro
09-28-07, 06:17 AM No, there is not a way to do unarmed damage with a weapon, and since that gauntlet is on is hand, and monks can attack with any other body parts that does not help either. The best thing to do is take versatile strike from PHB2.

correction--->The scorpion kama (MiC, Gharryn's Monastic Array) 201
Bopple
09-28-07, 02:27 PM 'You can make attacks with any of your body parts' != 'You must make use of all of your body parts'
If you were right, stuffs like kensai would mean nothing for monks.

And FAQ ruled it works. It is officially allowed.
dman11235
09-28-07, 03:16 PM No feat, but Scorpion Kama works, as does Versatile Unarmed Strike from PHBII if all you want is different damage types (P, B, S). And if you want to enhance your fists, buy an Amulet of Natural Attacks (SS).
Orenmir
09-28-07, 04:00 PM ...or Greater Magic Fang with Permanancy.
dman11235
09-28-07, 04:07 PM Yeah, but that can be dispelled. And greater magic weapon (fang) can't get you other things like speed, or psychokinetic, or wounding and such.
deathbane
09-28-07, 04:09 PM 'You can make attacks with any of your body parts' != 'You must make use of all of your body parts'
If you were right, stuffs like kensai would mean nothing for monks.

And FAQ ruled it works. It is officially allowed.

What is officially allowed? If you are saying that a weapon deals unarmed damage then you are mistaken, however you can use monk weapons as part of a flurry.

If the kensai is a PrC then that does not count because the OP asked for a feat not a PrC.
Bopple
09-28-07, 11:30 PM What is officially allowed? If you are saying that a weapon deals unarmed damage then you are mistaken, however you can use monk weapons as part of a flurry.
You'd better read carefully, before saying someone is 'mistaken'.
I said you can use your unarmed damage dice, if you have SWP(gauntlet) and use a gauntlet. And it is officially allowed in FAQ.

If the kensai is a PrC then that does not count because the OP asked for a feat not a PrC.
I was arguing about logic with concerro, with that.
The_Unseen_Illusion
09-29-07, 03:11 AM Yes, its rather disappointing that a monk does more damage with a kick/punch rather than with a sai or nunchuks or something that would hurt more. Can you imagine: Oh no! Its a man with a knife!!! *runs opposite direction* OH MY GOD!!! ITS AN UNARMED MONK!! *runs toward man with knife*
EjoThims
09-29-07, 03:14 AM I said you can use your unarmed damage dice, if you have SWP(gauntlet) and use a gauntlet. And it is officially allowed in FAQ.

Actually, the FAQ states that it wouldn't be unreasonable for a DM to allow it, not that that is how it works by default.

The FAQ is saying that it would be a good houserule.

But a good houserule =/= the rules.
Bopple
09-29-07, 03:54 AM Hmm.. there was the answer in the earlier FAQ documents. but i can't find it in the latest FAQ...weird..
maybe they have decided to retract their earlier answer...
Bopple
09-29-07, 06:22 AM Here I found;

Can a monk treat an attack with a gauntlet as an unarmed strike?
A monk could wear such an item and treat it as an unarmed strike (since the Player's Handbook says that "a strike with a gauntlet is... considered an unarmed attack"), although the damage dealt by the gauntlet would always be considered lethal damage (as noted in the gauntlet entry) and the monk would suffer nonproficiency penalty (since the gauntlet is a simple weapon). The monk could even use gauntlet attacks as part of a flurry of blows.

It does not step forward to say anything about unarmed damage, but if you can use flurry as monk unarmed strike, I don't see any reason you wouldn't be able to use monk unarmed damage dice.
dman11235
09-29-07, 01:24 PM It doesn't explicitly state that, but I believe they meant to include that it does deal unarmed damage, whatever that value may be, as the entry states that it does that. No FAQ needed for that.
The_Shaman
09-29-07, 01:48 PM Here I found;

It does not step forward to say anything about unarmed damage, but if you can use flurry as monk unarmed strike, I don't see any reason you wouldn't be able to use monk unarmed damage dice.

The rulings have been going back and forth on that one. It's annoying, really - almost makes me wish they'd come with a Rules Compendium and call it a day. Anyway, for more enhancements on the old knuckles, check the Necklace of) Natural Attacks (Savage Species) or the Bracers of Striking (Magic of Fa'd erun.

Back to the OP... the only thing I remember is the Drunken master ability, but I doubt you'd find enchanted improvised weapon or the like. Still, going around with a +3 holy speed adamantine tankard will probably be worth any amount of whining to the DM.
Nizo
09-29-07, 01:54 PM Look into the prc Shou Disciple in Unapproachable East (Forgotten Realms book) I think it grants the ability to use any weapon at 5th level. But of course then you are armed again and thus lose some of the good feats like roundabout kick.
The_Shaman
09-29-07, 02:00 PM That's somewhat true: Shou Disciple allows you to flurry with any melee weapon... That's why it's a great setup for the drunken master, and you can flurry with improvised weapons, doing your unarmed damage with a bonus. One option would be monk 6/SD 5 (greater flurry)/ Drunken Master 9, although I hate it how it costs you that 4th attack from BAB 16+. Use a monk belt and SUS/monk tattoo/whatever to get the unarmed damage of a lvl 20 monk, and you're set.
Pentegarn
09-30-07, 07:06 PM All this talk about rules, and FAQs. Why? Since 3.0 the games is completely bogged down in rules. I've seen rules contradict one another from one book to another. As to this topic there's been talk of rules and rule retraction. It's D&D people. If you are confused about a rule, and can't find a clear ruling, consult your DM. No matter what the rules state, your DM has the final word. I've been playing for 20 years now and I can't think of one DM I've played with that gone strictly by the rules. That's the beauty of D&D.

Personally, as a DM, I allow monks to use their unarmed damage as long as they're using a "monk" classified weapon that can be used with a Flurry of Blows. As far as the damage is concerned, I let the player decide between the weapon's listed die and bonuses, or his unarmed die and bonuses. In this way a player can benefit from a monk weapon in it's allowing him to do different types of damage. Such as Slashing, Piercing, Fire, Ice, etc. If the type of damage done by are particular source has to be specific (ie. X amount of fire damage), I allow the monks attack to do a up to the maximum amount of that type of damage that the weapon would have allowed. Remember, a Flurry of Blows is meant to be an overall attack using the monk's fists, feet, elbows, knees, weapon, etc. So in my games, I rule that weapon as just part of the flurry.

In general I use the rules of the game, mixed with some optional and variant rules from other sources such as the Unearthed Arcana. Ultimately it's up to your DM. I like to work with my players when it comes to rules. I listen to their suggestions and make my own before ruling that a rule will be change/modified. It just provides for a better game imo. But that's my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth.
mathew99
09-30-07, 10:22 PM y would you want to have a weapon as a monk anyways?

You can just take feats, or items that would let you do slashing & piercing damage,
The guantlets of talon for example.(Complete Divine)
unusualsuspect
10-01-07, 08:42 PM y would you want to have a weapon as a monk anyways?

You can just take feats, or items that would let you do slashing & piercing damage,
The guantlets of talon for example.(Complete Divine)

Amulet of Mighty Fists +5: 150000 gp.

Gauntlet +5: 50000 gp.

Yeah, I can't think of a reason either.
Fireclave
10-01-07, 11:56 PM Amulet of Mighty Fists +5: 150000 gp.

Gauntlet +5: 50000 gp.

Yeah, I can't think of a reason either.
Necklace of Natural Attacks +5: 50600gp.

Yeah, me neither :P
dman11235
10-02-07, 12:00 AM Amulet of Natural Attacks +10 200,600. +10 weapon 200,000. Flavor. There are reasons, but not very good ones.
unusualsuspect
10-02-07, 12:14 AM 1. I tend to avoid 3e materials, because though technically legal, it doesn't really cover a majority of games. Consider my comment to have "In 3.5" as a preface.

2. Between the two slots, I'd rather my monk have the neck slot open than his hand slot open.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wolfshade 09-28-07, 03:56 AM	Is there a feat that allows monks do use their unarmed damage instead of weapon damage when wielding a weapon?
Bopple 09-28-07, 04:20 AM	Simple Weapon Proficiency(gauntlet) does it, though it's gauntlet-only.
concerro 09-28-07, 06:17 AM	No, there is not a way to do unarmed damage with a weapon, and since that gauntlet is on is hand, and monks can attack with any other body parts that does not help either. The best thing to do is take versatile strike from PHB2. correction--->The scorpion kama (MiC, Gharryn's Monastic Array) 201
Bopple 09-28-07, 02:27 PM	'You can make attacks with any of your body parts' != 'You must make use of all of your body parts' If you were right, stuffs like kensai would mean nothing for monks. And FAQ ruled it works. It is officially allowed.
dman11235 09-28-07, 03:16 PM	No feat, but Scorpion Kama works, as does Versatile Unarmed Strike from PHBII if all you want is different damage types (P, B, S). And if you want to enhance your fists, buy an Amulet of Natural Attacks (SS).
Orenmir 09-28-07, 04:00 PM	...or Greater Magic Fang with Permanancy.
dman11235 09-28-07, 04:07 PM	Yeah, but that can be dispelled. And greater magic weapon (fang) can't get you other things like speed, or psychokinetic, or wounding and such.
deathbane 09-28-07, 04:09 PM	'You can make attacks with any of your body parts' != 'You must make use of all of your body parts' If you were right, stuffs like kensai would mean nothing for monks. And FAQ ruled it works. It is officially allowed. What is officially allowed? If you are saying that a weapon deals unarmed damage then you are mistaken, however you can use monk weapons as part of a flurry. If the kensai is a PrC then that does not count because the OP asked for a feat not a PrC.
Bopple 09-28-07, 11:30 PM	What is officially allowed? If you are saying that a weapon deals unarmed damage then you are mistaken, however you can use monk weapons as part of a flurry. You'd better read carefully, before saying someone is 'mistaken'. I said you can use your unarmed damage dice, if you have SWP(gauntlet) and use a gauntlet. And it is officially allowed in FAQ. If the kensai is a PrC then that does not count because the OP asked for a feat not a PrC. I was arguing about logic with concerro, with that.
The_Unseen_Illusion 09-29-07, 03:11 AM	Yes, its rather disappointing that a monk does more damage with a kick/punch rather than with a sai or nunchuks or something that would hurt more. Can you imagine: Oh no! Its a man with a knife!!! runs opposite direction OH MY GOD!!! ITS AN UNARMED MONK!! runs toward man with knife
EjoThims 09-29-07, 03:14 AM	I said you can use your unarmed damage dice, if you have SWP(gauntlet) and use a gauntlet. And it is officially allowed in FAQ. Actually, the FAQ states that it wouldn't be unreasonable for a DM to allow it, not that that is how it works by default. The FAQ is saying that it would be a good houserule. But a good houserule =/= the rules.
Bopple 09-29-07, 03:54 AM	Hmm.. there was the answer in the earlier FAQ documents. but i can't find it in the latest FAQ...weird.. maybe they have decided to retract their earlier answer...
Bopple 09-29-07, 06:22 AM	Here I found; Can a monk treat an attack with a gauntlet as an unarmed strike? A monk could wear such an item and treat it as an unarmed strike (since the Player's Handbook says that "a strike with a gauntlet is... considered an unarmed attack"), although the damage dealt by the gauntlet would always be considered lethal damage (as noted in the gauntlet entry) and the monk would suffer nonproficiency penalty (since the gauntlet is a simple weapon). The monk could even use gauntlet attacks as part of a flurry of blows. It does not step forward to say anything about unarmed damage, but if you can use flurry as monk unarmed strike, I don't see any reason you wouldn't be able to use monk unarmed damage dice.
dman11235 09-29-07, 01:24 PM	It doesn't explicitly state that, but I believe they meant to include that it does deal unarmed damage, whatever that value may be, as the entry states that it does that. No FAQ needed for that.
The_Shaman 09-29-07, 01:48 PM	Here I found; It does not step forward to say anything about unarmed damage, but if you can use flurry as monk unarmed strike, I don't see any reason you wouldn't be able to use monk unarmed damage dice. The rulings have been going back and forth on that one. It's annoying, really - almost makes me wish they'd come with a Rules Compendium and call it a day. Anyway, for more enhancements on the old knuckles, check the Necklace of) Natural Attacks (Savage Species) or the Bracers of Striking (Magic of Fa'd erun. Back to the OP... the only thing I remember is the Drunken master ability, but I doubt you'd find enchanted improvised weapon or the like. Still, going around with a +3 holy speed adamantine tankard will probably be worth any amount of whining to the DM.
Nizo 09-29-07, 01:54 PM	Look into the prc Shou Disciple in Unapproachable East (Forgotten Realms book) I think it grants the ability to use any weapon at 5th level. But of course then you are armed again and thus lose some of the good feats like roundabout kick.
The_Shaman 09-29-07, 02:00 PM	That's somewhat true: Shou Disciple allows you to flurry with any melee weapon... That's why it's a great setup for the drunken master, and you can flurry with improvised weapons, doing your unarmed damage with a bonus. One option would be monk 6/SD 5 (greater flurry)/ Drunken Master 9, although I hate it how it costs you that 4th attack from BAB 16+. Use a monk belt and SUS/monk tattoo/whatever to get the unarmed damage of a lvl 20 monk, and you're set.
Pentegarn 09-30-07, 07:06 PM	All this talk about rules, and FAQs. Why? Since 3.0 the games is completely bogged down in rules. I've seen rules contradict one another from one book to another. As to this topic there's been talk of rules and rule retraction. It's D&D people. If you are confused about a rule, and can't find a clear ruling, consult your DM. No matter what the rules state, your DM has the final word. I've been playing for 20 years now and I can't think of one DM I've played with that gone strictly by the rules. That's the beauty of D&D. Personally, as a DM, I allow monks to use their unarmed damage as long as they're using a "monk" classified weapon that can be used with a Flurry of Blows. As far as the damage is concerned, I let the player decide between the weapon's listed die and bonuses, or his unarmed die and bonuses. In this way a player can benefit from a monk weapon in it's allowing him to do different types of damage. Such as Slashing, Piercing, Fire, Ice, etc. If the type of damage done by are particular source has to be specific (ie. X amount of fire damage), I allow the monks attack to do a up to the maximum amount of that type of damage that the weapon would have allowed. Remember, a Flurry of Blows is meant to be an overall attack using the monk's fists, feet, elbows, knees, weapon, etc. So in my games, I rule that weapon as just part of the flurry. In general I use the rules of the game, mixed with some optional and variant rules from other sources such as the Unearthed Arcana. Ultimately it's up to your DM. I like to work with my players when it comes to rules. I listen to their suggestions and make my own before ruling that a rule will be change/modified. It just provides for a better game imo. But that's my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth.
mathew99 09-30-07, 10:22 PM	y would you want to have a weapon as a monk anyways? You can just take feats, or items that would let you do slashing & piercing damage, The guantlets of talon for example.(Complete Divine)
unusualsuspect 10-01-07, 08:42 PM	y would you want to have a weapon as a monk anyways? You can just take feats, or items that would let you do slashing & piercing damage, The guantlets of talon for example.(Complete Divine) Amulet of Mighty Fists +5: 150000 gp. Gauntlet +5: 50000 gp. Yeah, I can't think of a reason either.
Fireclave 10-01-07, 11:56 PM	Amulet of Mighty Fists +5: 150000 gp. Gauntlet +5: 50000 gp. Yeah, I can't think of a reason either. Necklace of Natural Attacks +5: 50600gp. Yeah, me neither :P
dman11235 10-02-07, 12:00 AM	Amulet of Natural Attacks +10 200,600. +10 weapon 200,000. Flavor. There are reasons, but not very good ones.
unusualsuspect 10-02-07, 12:14 AM	1. I tend to avoid 3e materials, because though technically legal, it doesn't really cover a majority of games. Consider my comment to have "In 3.5" as a preface. 2. Between the two slots, I'd rather my monk have the neck slot open than his hand slot open.