Augement Healing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Augement Healing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Trelel
06-29-07, 08:28 AM I have a snag with the DM and the feat Augment Healing. We each have a different view on what it gives.

It allows +2/per spell lvl to any healing spells you cast.

This also stacks with the +1 bonus for having the Healing Domain.
Does it allow you to exceed the maximum permitted by the PHB spell discirption? I say no, he says yes. Please help!

While I realize that the DM has the final say in all things, he's willing to read this and see what others think.
DrunkDwarf
06-29-07, 08:43 AM I believe, Yes
Shadowfax7
06-29-07, 09:11 AM The bonus derived from the +1 caster level benefit of the Healing domain is subject to the various healing spells' limits, but not the +2/spell level bonus from Augment Healing.
Nezkrul
06-29-07, 09:52 AM a feat's bonus is a feat's bonus. It has nothing to do with the way spells are written. Yes, it adds it no matter what, otherwise there would be almost no reason to ever take augment healing.
Trelel
06-29-07, 10:09 AM a feat's bonus is a feat's bonus. It has nothing to do with the way spells are written. Yes, it adds it no matter what, otherwise there would be almost no reason to ever take augment healing.

Good point... hadn't thought of it like that.

Thank you to everyone who has answered so far.
risner
06-29-07, 10:12 AM Does it allow you to exceed the maximum permitted by the PHB spell discirption? I say no, he says yes. Please help!

I agree with your DM, it doesn't allow you to exceed the amount listed in the spell if the spell has a maximum amount of healing.

The bad news is there isn't likely a FAQ/errata to clarify this issue, so you are stuck with his interpretation.

Even if the spell has a limit on healing, the feat allows you to reach the limit faster/earlier. Also, think of it this way. It is similar to how Extended Lesser Vigors have a maximum of 15 rounds at 20th level because the spell has a limit of 15 rounds and there isn't anything Extend Spell can do to exceed that limit.
Trelel
06-29-07, 10:51 AM Actually I'm the one who thinks it shouldn't exceed the spell total. :P

My thought was: With Healing Domain and Augmentation I'm level 6:
2d8 + 6 (my lvl) and an additional +4 (aug) for a total of 10. That wouldn't exceed the spell limit of +10 at my level however when I reach higher levels I would start exceeding that +10 max and clearly exceed the current max for 1st lvl cure light wounds which is a +5.

His idea is that I blow past the spell limitations. And yes I checked the Errata and other threads and cannot find a ruling for this one so we're looking for a majority ruling on it.
LordBritish2
06-29-07, 10:55 AM Actually there is an answer to this question in the FAQ, it even has some examples explaining the math. I don't have the section right now but I know its there.
Trelel
06-29-07, 11:45 AM Okay, I answered my own question finally after reading the posts and re-reading the material for the umpteenth time. I still do my healing spell up to it's maximum bonus based on my lvl and bonus for the Healing Domain and then add Augment Healing +2/sp lvl after that. :)

Does that sound right?
Shadowfax7
06-29-07, 12:37 PM Does that sound right?As stated in post #3, yes that is right.
Pentar
06-29-07, 12:41 PM Okay, I answered my own question finally after reading the posts and re-reading the material for the umpteenth time. I still do my healing spell up to it's maximum bonus based on my lvl and bonus for the Healing Domain and then add Augment Healing +2/sp lvl after that. :)

Does that sound right?

Yes - it's like any other metamagic augmentation feat. It exceeds and goes beyond the listed spell limit. A Fireball says it does a max of 10d6 damage, but there are feats that let you take it beyond that spell description maximum. Same goes for Augment Healing. The benefit from Augment healing is separate from the benefit of the spell (otherwise the Warmage becomes pretty useless.... :D)
Salla
06-29-07, 12:44 PM It's a weak feat and a useless domain. You might as well combine them to make something that doesn't totally suck. :)
Dark1ord
06-29-07, 02:06 PM It's a weak feat and a useless domain.
oh come now. not if you really want to get as much out of your healing as you can. can be combined with other stuff too.
Priest_of_Doom
06-29-07, 02:37 PM As a DM and a player, I'd allow it to exceed the limits of the spell. Why? Feats should not become obsolete. Skill focus, weapon focus, spell penetration, etc don't. And you get relatively few feats, so making one become obsolete every few levels really takes it's usefulness away.
Dark1ord
06-29-07, 04:46 PM As a DM and a player, I'd allow it to exceed the limits of the spell.
as already stated in this thread, there's no need of "allowing" anything - augment healing is a bonus in addition to the caster level dependent cap...
Salla
06-29-07, 07:38 PM oh come now. not if you really want to get as much out of your healing as you can. can be combined with other stuff too.

One extra point of healing and no additional spell access is not worth blowing a Domain on, IMHO. :)
Dark1ord
06-29-07, 08:32 PM One extra point of healing and no additional spell access is not worth blowing a Domain on, IMHO. :)
10 extra, with heal/mass heal (until you reach the cap, of course). 2-18 extra, with augment healing (which was also a part of that consideration). and as I mentioned, other ways exist for improving healing - stack away. :)
navar100
06-29-07, 09:46 PM The other benefit of Healing domain is one of strategy. A cleric cannot convert a domain spell to a cure spell. By preparing a Healing domain spell, that's one more normal spell slot that can be cast as the prepared spell and still have some healin ability.

Still, I agree it's one of the weak domains. Before Complete Divine I would advocate that the domain ability be changed to Lay On Hands as a paladin, but since Complete Divine I advocate the ability be changed to getting Augment Healing feat as a bonus feat.

My DM house rules it to letting the +1 to caster level exceed the spell's caster level limit by 1.
Salla
06-30-07, 12:28 AM My DM house rules it to letting the +1 to caster level exceed the spell's caster level limit by 1.

That's not a house rule, that's how it works.
Gnarl
06-30-07, 03:42 AM It's a weak feat and a useless domain. You might as well combine them to make something that doesn't totally suck. :)

The feat is not that weak. It's quite good with Close Wounds and with the Mass Cure spells.
Dark1ord
06-30-07, 07:08 AM The other benefit of Healing domain is one of strategy. A cleric cannot convert a domain spell to a cure spell. By preparing a Healing domain spell, that's one more normal spell slot that can be cast as the prepared spell and still have some healin ability.

Still, I agree it's one of the weak domains. Before Complete Divine I would advocate that the domain ability be changed to Lay On Hands as a paladin, but since Complete Divine I advocate the ability be changed to getting Augment Healing feat as a bonus feat.
if you allow domain spontaneity, or better, spontaneous domain casting (PH2), you get spontaneous (Mass) Heal...
That's not a house rule, that's how it works.
the CL bonus from healing doesn't let you exceed caps, no. it justs makes you one ahead until you reach the cap.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Trelel 06-29-07, 08:28 AM	I have a snag with the DM and the feat Augment Healing. We each have a different view on what it gives. It allows +2/per spell lvl to any healing spells you cast. This also stacks with the +1 bonus for having the Healing Domain. Does it allow you to exceed the maximum permitted by the PHB spell discirption? I say no, he says yes. Please help! While I realize that the DM has the final say in all things, he's willing to read this and see what others think.
DrunkDwarf 06-29-07, 08:43 AM	I believe, Yes
Shadowfax7 06-29-07, 09:11 AM	The bonus derived from the +1 caster level benefit of the Healing domain is subject to the various healing spells' limits, but not the +2/spell level bonus from Augment Healing.
Nezkrul 06-29-07, 09:52 AM	a feat's bonus is a feat's bonus. It has nothing to do with the way spells are written. Yes, it adds it no matter what, otherwise there would be almost no reason to ever take augment healing.
Trelel 06-29-07, 10:09 AM	a feat's bonus is a feat's bonus. It has nothing to do with the way spells are written. Yes, it adds it no matter what, otherwise there would be almost no reason to ever take augment healing. Good point... hadn't thought of it like that. Thank you to everyone who has answered so far.
risner 06-29-07, 10:12 AM	Does it allow you to exceed the maximum permitted by the PHB spell discirption? I say no, he says yes. Please help! I agree with your DM, it doesn't allow you to exceed the amount listed in the spell if the spell has a maximum amount of healing. The bad news is there isn't likely a FAQ/errata to clarify this issue, so you are stuck with his interpretation. Even if the spell has a limit on healing, the feat allows you to reach the limit faster/earlier. Also, think of it this way. It is similar to how Extended Lesser Vigors have a maximum of 15 rounds at 20th level because the spell has a limit of 15 rounds and there isn't anything Extend Spell can do to exceed that limit.
Trelel 06-29-07, 10:51 AM	Actually I'm the one who thinks it shouldn't exceed the spell total. :P My thought was: With Healing Domain and Augmentation I'm level 6: 2d8 + 6 (my lvl) and an additional +4 (aug) for a total of 10. That wouldn't exceed the spell limit of +10 at my level however when I reach higher levels I would start exceeding that +10 max and clearly exceed the current max for 1st lvl cure light wounds which is a +5. His idea is that I blow past the spell limitations. And yes I checked the Errata and other threads and cannot find a ruling for this one so we're looking for a majority ruling on it.
LordBritish2 06-29-07, 10:55 AM	Actually there is an answer to this question in the FAQ, it even has some examples explaining the math. I don't have the section right now but I know its there.
Trelel 06-29-07, 11:45 AM	Okay, I answered my own question finally after reading the posts and re-reading the material for the umpteenth time. I still do my healing spell up to it's maximum bonus based on my lvl and bonus for the Healing Domain and then add Augment Healing +2/sp lvl after that. :) Does that sound right?
Shadowfax7 06-29-07, 12:37 PM	Does that sound right?As stated in post #3, yes that is right.
Pentar 06-29-07, 12:41 PM	Okay, I answered my own question finally after reading the posts and re-reading the material for the umpteenth time. I still do my healing spell up to it's maximum bonus based on my lvl and bonus for the Healing Domain and then add Augment Healing +2/sp lvl after that. :) Does that sound right? Yes - it's like any other metamagic augmentation feat. It exceeds and goes beyond the listed spell limit. A Fireball says it does a max of 10d6 damage, but there are feats that let you take it beyond that spell description maximum. Same goes for Augment Healing. The benefit from Augment healing is separate from the benefit of the spell (otherwise the Warmage becomes pretty useless.... :D)
Salla 06-29-07, 12:44 PM	It's a weak feat and a useless domain. You might as well combine them to make something that doesn't totally suck. :)
Dark1ord 06-29-07, 02:06 PM	It's a weak feat and a useless domain. oh come now. not if you really want to get as much out of your healing as you can. can be combined with other stuff too.
Priest_of_Doom 06-29-07, 02:37 PM	As a DM and a player, I'd allow it to exceed the limits of the spell. Why? Feats should not become obsolete. Skill focus, weapon focus, spell penetration, etc don't. And you get relatively few feats, so making one become obsolete every few levels really takes it's usefulness away.
Dark1ord 06-29-07, 04:46 PM	As a DM and a player, I'd allow it to exceed the limits of the spell. as already stated in this thread, there's no need of "allowing" anything - augment healing is a bonus in addition to the caster level dependent cap...
Salla 06-29-07, 07:38 PM	oh come now. not if you really want to get as much out of your healing as you can. can be combined with other stuff too. One extra point of healing and no additional spell access is not worth blowing a Domain on, IMHO. :)
Dark1ord 06-29-07, 08:32 PM	One extra point of healing and no additional spell access is not worth blowing a Domain on, IMHO. :) 10 extra, with heal/mass heal (until you reach the cap, of course). 2-18 extra, with augment healing (which was also a part of that consideration). and as I mentioned, other ways exist for improving healing - stack away. :)
navar100 06-29-07, 09:46 PM	The other benefit of Healing domain is one of strategy. A cleric cannot convert a domain spell to a cure spell. By preparing a Healing domain spell, that's one more normal spell slot that can be cast as the prepared spell and still have some healin ability. Still, I agree it's one of the weak domains. Before Complete Divine I would advocate that the domain ability be changed to Lay On Hands as a paladin, but since Complete Divine I advocate the ability be changed to getting Augment Healing feat as a bonus feat. My DM house rules it to letting the +1 to caster level exceed the spell's caster level limit by 1.
Salla 06-30-07, 12:28 AM	My DM house rules it to letting the +1 to caster level exceed the spell's caster level limit by 1. That's not a house rule, that's how it works.
Gnarl 06-30-07, 03:42 AM	It's a weak feat and a useless domain. You might as well combine them to make something that doesn't totally suck. :) The feat is not that weak. It's quite good with Close Wounds and with the Mass Cure spells.
Dark1ord 06-30-07, 07:08 AM	The other benefit of Healing domain is one of strategy. A cleric cannot convert a domain spell to a cure spell. By preparing a Healing domain spell, that's one more normal spell slot that can be cast as the prepared spell and still have some healin ability. Still, I agree it's one of the weak domains. Before Complete Divine I would advocate that the domain ability be changed to Lay On Hands as a paladin, but since Complete Divine I advocate the ability be changed to getting Augment Healing feat as a bonus feat. if you allow domain spontaneity, or better, spontaneous domain casting (PH2), you get spontaneous (Mass) Heal... That's not a house rule, that's how it works. the CL bonus from healing doesn't let you exceed caps, no. it justs makes you one ahead until you reach the cap.