Axe Frenzy with Greataxe? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Axe Frenzy with Greataxe? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
satyre
06-25-07, 03:10 PM AXE FRENZY [General, Fighter]
You can strike exceptionally fast with axes.
Prerequisite: Weapon Focus (any One Axe Weapon)
Benefit: You can only get the benefit of this feat with an axe-type weapon you have Weapon Focus in and use in one hand. Make one extra attack with an axe per round at your highest base attack. You suffer a –4 dodge penalty to AC during this round. This requires the full attack action.
Special: This feat works with the dwarven waraxe, greataxe, handaxe, kukiri, and throwing axe.

This feat seems to contradict itself. Can you or can you not use this feat with a greataxe, which is a two-handed weapon?
RobbyPants
06-25-07, 03:25 PM Perhaps if you find a way to use a greataxe in one hand...

That does seem odd. I guess I'd consider the second part somewhat of a typo. I'm also suprised the kukri is in there.
tarkin
06-25-07, 03:45 PM If you are using a weapon designed for someone one size smaller than you, you can use a 2-handed weapon in one hand.

So you can use a halfing sized great axe in one hand, and use this feat with it.

But I do agree, it is strange that they mentioned it.
RobbyPants
06-25-07, 03:57 PM If you are using a weapon designed for someone one size smaller than you, you can use a 2-handed weapon in one hand.

So you can use a halfing sized great axe in one hand, and use this feat with it.
Yeah, that was about the only exception I could think of, and it's not even a good idea. You'd do the same damage as a waraxe, with a penalty to hit! :P

Well, I guess there is the epic Wield Oversized Weapon (or whatever it's called).
satyre
06-25-07, 04:09 PM Hmm, well then, are there any good Greataxe centric feats? My character is a Barbarian/Cleric so the Weapon Specs and whatnot are out of the question. :(
tarkin
06-25-07, 04:28 PM Axespike is for great axe with armor spikes

Extra attack with your armorspikes at -5 (stacks with TWF).
Dnarris
06-25-07, 04:56 PM A large creature can use a large weapon in one hand.
AAB
06-25-07, 04:59 PM A large creature can use a large weapon in one hand.

but he'd be using a large battleaxe, not a medium greataxe. he could, but he'd take something like -2 to attack with it.
Dnarris
06-25-07, 05:04 PM but he'd be using a large battleaxe, not a medium greataxe. he could, but he'd take something like -2 to attack with it.

Okay, I might be confused, but if a large creature can wield a huge greataxe two handed without penalty....why would a large creature take a penalty for using a large greataxe in one hand?
Pentar
06-25-07, 05:21 PM Okay, I might be confused, but if a large creature can wield a huge greataxe two handed without penalty....why would a large creature take a penalty for using a large greataxe in one hand?

Erm
Not really...

A Medium creature needs 2 hands to use a Medium sized Great Axe.
A Large creature could use a Medium sized Great Axe in one hand.
A Large creature would need to use 2 hands to use a Large Great Axe.
Fireclave
06-25-07, 05:30 PM Okay, I might be confused, but if a large creature can wield a huge greataxe two handed without penalty....
A large creature can't use a huge weapon without penalty.

Wielding a weapon greater than your size will always impose a penalty, no matter what your size is. If a character of size X attempts to wield a weapon of size X+1, two things happens: 1) The amount of effort it takes to wield that weapon increases by one step. X+1 light weapons are treated as 1 handed for you, X+1 1 handed weapons are treated as 2H, and you can't even wield X+1 two-handed weapons (unless you have the Monkey Grip feat, see below). 2) You take a -2 penalty to your attacks.

The Monkey Grip feat allows you to wield X+1 sized weapons without increasing the effort to wield them (X+1 light weapons are still light weapons for you, ect), though you still take the -2 penalty to hit.

why would a large creature take a penalty for using a large greataxe in one hand?
A since a greataxe is a 2-handed weapon, large creature must wield it in two hands, not one. He could attempt to wield a medium greataxe in one hand at a -2 penalty to attack rolls.
Aryxbez
06-25-07, 05:35 PM Axe Frenzy? What book is this feat in? I couldn't seem to find it myself. Although the feat is kinda cool and interesting, as feats based on axes is always cool. Since Axes be awesome.
satyre
06-27-07, 09:57 AM Axe Frenzy? What book is this feat in? I couldn't seem to find it myself. Although the feat is kinda cool and interesting, as feats based on axes is always cool. Since Axes be awesome.

I got it off of Netbook of Feats. Look it up, since I'm not sure if I'm allowed to put the URL up. ;)

In the end, I decided to go with Savage Critical. It increases your critical multiplier by 1, making my Greataxe crit for x4.

Happy Happy Joy Joy
Aryxbez
06-27-07, 03:11 PM Well I am not sure if there is anything wrong with it, seeing how you just put the feat up, so I am guessing this Netbook of feats is only on the internet? Otherwise I guess this feat is not technically not a legal feat.
satyre
06-27-07, 04:08 PM Netbook of Feats (http://datadeco.com/nbofeats/)

They're published under the OGL. I guess their legality is dependent on your DM. They have a panel of people who review each feat to make sure it is balanced with the rest of the game.
Aryxbez
06-27-07, 04:25 PM Thanks, although since it is internet, I probably won't use it in my games. By the way, I am the DM.
Dnarris
06-28-07, 07:02 AM but he'd be using a large battleaxe, not a medium greataxe. he could, but he'd take something like -2 to attack with it.

I was checking up on weapon size since I wanted to make sure I wasn't confused and it says that large creature can wield a medium great axe in one hand just like it were wielding a large battle axe like you mention.

So, a large creature can still wield a great axe in one hand and still use this feat with it, which was the intention of my post even if it didn't come out that way.

The way it works is that a creature can use a weapon greater than it size and they receive -2 penalty for each size category the weapon is off from their size up or down unless there is an equivalent weapon it can be treated as like a battle axe in the case of a medium great axe.

A large creature could wield a huge one-handed weapon with two-hands with a -2 penalty. Or a large weapon in one-hand without a penalty.
AAB
06-28-07, 12:28 PM I was checking up on weapon size since I wanted to make sure I wasn't confused and it says that large creature can wield a medium great axe in one hand just like it were wielding a large battle axe like you mention.

So, a large creature can still wield a great axe in one hand and still use this feat with it, which was the intention of my post even if it didn't come out that way.

The way it works is that a creature can use a weapon greater than it size and they receive -2 penalty for each size category the weapon is off from their size up or down unless there is an equivalent weapon it can be treated as like a battle axe in the case of a medium great axe.

A large creature could wield a huge one-handed weapon with two-hands with a -2 penalty. Or a large weapon in one-hand without a penalty.

looking through the PHB i couldn't find anything supporting the bolded part above. per the rules, this large creature would still take a -2 penalty to attacks, just like a human would take -2 for using a small greatsword (justify it in your head as the weapon having inappropriately sized grips, for example).

Inappropriately Sized Weapons

A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

i would even go so far as the say the intention of feats like this would, in this example, apply to characters using a greataxe two-handed. if i were DMing i would say that using the weapon in so different a manner than normal (in one instead of two hands) would invalidate the "training" you have for that weapon style feat.
Dnarris
06-28-07, 07:31 PM looking through the PHB i couldn't find anything supporting the bolded part above. per the rules, this large creature would still take a -2 penalty to attacks, just like a human would take -2 for using a small greatsword (justify it in your head as the weapon having inappropriately sized grips, for example).

The bolded part is actually in the DMG on page 28.
AAB
06-28-07, 07:51 PM The bolded part is actually in the DMG on page 28.

yes, but that IS a variant rule, which not everyone uses.
Dnarris
06-28-07, 08:48 PM yes, but that IS a variant rule, which not everyone uses.

Either way it makes sense variant or not. Who says that a medium greataxe wouldn't have the same grip as a large battle axe?

I guess that would be up to the DM...just like whether a variant rule is used or not.

Either way what I've stated is supported by the rules...variant or not.

And you said that he'd be using a large battle axe not a medium greataxe, he could, but at a -2 penalty. Well, that variant rule treats a medium great axe like it were a large battle axe. The weapons are similar enough that it's reasonable to assume a creature of a larger size could employ the weapon as a different category of a weapon.
AAB
06-29-07, 12:14 AM Either way it makes sense variant or not. Who says that a medium greataxe wouldn't have the same grip as a large battle axe?

think of the diameter of the handles involved. one has to fit in a human's hands. the other has to fit an ogre's hands. the ogre using a medium greataxe would be like a human using an axe with a handle 1" in diameter (an approximation, no math/anything here).
Dnarris
06-29-07, 12:21 AM think of the diameter of the handles involved. one has to fit in a human's hands. the other has to fit an ogre's hands. the ogre using a medium greataxe would be like a human using an axe with a handle 1" in diameter (an approximation, no math/anything here).

Why think of diameter? There's a rule that supports it, it can be a reasonable assumption...there's no need to get any further into detail or physics.

I suppose that's a reason why it's a rule left up to the DM. If I were a DM I'd allow it and obviously you wouldn't if you were the DM.
LoneStranger
06-29-07, 01:23 AM Axe Frenzy is possible with the greataxe, but you need the feat Monkey Grip to pull it off.

You take a -2 to your attack roll to wield a two-handed weapon one-handed (a reason for greater weapon focus I think).
Sigfried Trent
07-03-07, 07:33 PM Hi all!

I'm going to take a look at the wording of the feat and see if I can clear it up. I think the special section is trying to clasify "what is an axe?" since it isn't explicitly defined in the game rules. As you point out however the feat would generaly preclude you using a Great Axe because it requires a one handed weapon.

I believe the one handed requrement is there as a matter of keeping the feat from being unbalancing due to the strenght of two handed weapons in general.

We have a few of these feats that allow an extra attack in some circumstance. My playtesting has shown them to be most appropriate for a high powered game, as a clever player can generaly minimize the down side. On the other hand there are a fair number of standard feats that are of a similar power level in the right circumstance.

We like to pride ourselves on quality and keeping our feats up to date rules wise. But its a big collection and it really helps when our readers send us issues they find. So.. if anyone runs into something that doesn't look right or is unclear, please send us an email about it.

You can send it to...
Sigfried@gmail.com

or link from the website at
www.datadeco.com/nbofeats

You can just google "feats" as well

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
satyre 06-25-07, 03:10 PM	AXE FRENZY [General, Fighter] You can strike exceptionally fast with axes. Prerequisite: Weapon Focus (any One Axe Weapon) Benefit: You can only get the benefit of this feat with an axe-type weapon you have Weapon Focus in and use in one hand. Make one extra attack with an axe per round at your highest base attack. You suffer a –4 dodge penalty to AC during this round. This requires the full attack action. Special: This feat works with the dwarven waraxe, greataxe, handaxe, kukiri, and throwing axe. This feat seems to contradict itself. Can you or can you not use this feat with a greataxe, which is a two-handed weapon?
RobbyPants 06-25-07, 03:25 PM	Perhaps if you find a way to use a greataxe in one hand... That does seem odd. I guess I'd consider the second part somewhat of a typo. I'm also suprised the kukri is in there.
tarkin 06-25-07, 03:45 PM	If you are using a weapon designed for someone one size smaller than you, you can use a 2-handed weapon in one hand. So you can use a halfing sized great axe in one hand, and use this feat with it. But I do agree, it is strange that they mentioned it.
RobbyPants 06-25-07, 03:57 PM	If you are using a weapon designed for someone one size smaller than you, you can use a 2-handed weapon in one hand. So you can use a halfing sized great axe in one hand, and use this feat with it. Yeah, that was about the only exception I could think of, and it's not even a good idea. You'd do the same damage as a waraxe, with a penalty to hit! :P Well, I guess there is the epic Wield Oversized Weapon (or whatever it's called).
satyre 06-25-07, 04:09 PM	Hmm, well then, are there any good Greataxe centric feats? My character is a Barbarian/Cleric so the Weapon Specs and whatnot are out of the question. :(
tarkin 06-25-07, 04:28 PM	Axespike is for great axe with armor spikes Extra attack with your armorspikes at -5 (stacks with TWF).
Dnarris 06-25-07, 04:56 PM	A large creature can use a large weapon in one hand.
AAB 06-25-07, 04:59 PM	A large creature can use a large weapon in one hand. but he'd be using a large battleaxe, not a medium greataxe. he could, but he'd take something like -2 to attack with it.
Dnarris 06-25-07, 05:04 PM	but he'd be using a large battleaxe, not a medium greataxe. he could, but he'd take something like -2 to attack with it. Okay, I might be confused, but if a large creature can wield a huge greataxe two handed without penalty....why would a large creature take a penalty for using a large greataxe in one hand?
Pentar 06-25-07, 05:21 PM	Okay, I might be confused, but if a large creature can wield a huge greataxe two handed without penalty....why would a large creature take a penalty for using a large greataxe in one hand? Erm Not really... A Medium creature needs 2 hands to use a Medium sized Great Axe. A Large creature could use a Medium sized Great Axe in one hand. A Large creature would need to use 2 hands to use a Large Great Axe.
Fireclave 06-25-07, 05:30 PM	Okay, I might be confused, but if a large creature can wield a huge greataxe two handed without penalty.... A large creature can't use a huge weapon without penalty. Wielding a weapon greater than your size will always impose a penalty, no matter what your size is. If a character of size X attempts to wield a weapon of size X+1, two things happens: 1) The amount of effort it takes to wield that weapon increases by one step. X+1 light weapons are treated as 1 handed for you, X+1 1 handed weapons are treated as 2H, and you can't even wield X+1 two-handed weapons (unless you have the Monkey Grip feat, see below). 2) You take a -2 penalty to your attacks. The Monkey Grip feat allows you to wield X+1 sized weapons without increasing the effort to wield them (X+1 light weapons are still light weapons for you, ect), though you still take the -2 penalty to hit. why would a large creature take a penalty for using a large greataxe in one hand? A since a greataxe is a 2-handed weapon, large creature must wield it in two hands, not one. He could attempt to wield a medium greataxe in one hand at a -2 penalty to attack rolls.
Aryxbez 06-25-07, 05:35 PM	Axe Frenzy? What book is this feat in? I couldn't seem to find it myself. Although the feat is kinda cool and interesting, as feats based on axes is always cool. Since Axes be awesome.
satyre 06-27-07, 09:57 AM	Axe Frenzy? What book is this feat in? I couldn't seem to find it myself. Although the feat is kinda cool and interesting, as feats based on axes is always cool. Since Axes be awesome. I got it off of Netbook of Feats. Look it up, since I'm not sure if I'm allowed to put the URL up. ;) In the end, I decided to go with Savage Critical. It increases your critical multiplier by 1, making my Greataxe crit for x4. Happy Happy Joy Joy
Aryxbez 06-27-07, 03:11 PM	Well I am not sure if there is anything wrong with it, seeing how you just put the feat up, so I am guessing this Netbook of feats is only on the internet? Otherwise I guess this feat is not technically not a legal feat.
satyre 06-27-07, 04:08 PM	Netbook of Feats (http://datadeco.com/nbofeats/) They're published under the OGL. I guess their legality is dependent on your DM. They have a panel of people who review each feat to make sure it is balanced with the rest of the game.
Aryxbez 06-27-07, 04:25 PM	Thanks, although since it is internet, I probably won't use it in my games. By the way, I am the DM.
Dnarris 06-28-07, 07:02 AM	but he'd be using a large battleaxe, not a medium greataxe. he could, but he'd take something like -2 to attack with it. I was checking up on weapon size since I wanted to make sure I wasn't confused and it says that large creature can wield a medium great axe in one hand just like it were wielding a large battle axe like you mention. So, a large creature can still wield a great axe in one hand and still use this feat with it, which was the intention of my post even if it didn't come out that way. The way it works is that a creature can use a weapon greater than it size and they receive -2 penalty for each size category the weapon is off from their size up or down unless there is an equivalent weapon it can be treated as like a battle axe in the case of a medium great axe. A large creature could wield a huge one-handed weapon with two-hands with a -2 penalty. Or a large weapon in one-hand without a penalty.
AAB 06-28-07, 12:28 PM	I was checking up on weapon size since I wanted to make sure I wasn't confused and it says that large creature can wield a medium great axe in one hand just like it were wielding a large battle axe like you mention. So, a large creature can still wield a great axe in one hand and still use this feat with it, which was the intention of my post even if it didn't come out that way. The way it works is that a creature can use a weapon greater than it size and they receive -2 penalty for each size category the weapon is off from their size up or down unless there is an equivalent weapon it can be treated as like a battle axe in the case of a medium great axe. A large creature could wield a huge one-handed weapon with two-hands with a -2 penalty. Or a large weapon in one-hand without a penalty. looking through the PHB i couldn't find anything supporting the bolded part above. per the rules, this large creature would still take a -2 penalty to attacks, just like a human would take -2 for using a small greatsword (justify it in your head as the weapon having inappropriately sized grips, for example). Inappropriately Sized Weapons A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies. The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all. i would even go so far as the say the intention of feats like this would, in this example, apply to characters using a greataxe two-handed. if i were DMing i would say that using the weapon in so different a manner than normal (in one instead of two hands) would invalidate the "training" you have for that weapon style feat.
Dnarris 06-28-07, 07:31 PM	looking through the PHB i couldn't find anything supporting the bolded part above. per the rules, this large creature would still take a -2 penalty to attacks, just like a human would take -2 for using a small greatsword (justify it in your head as the weapon having inappropriately sized grips, for example). The bolded part is actually in the DMG on page 28.
AAB 06-28-07, 07:51 PM	The bolded part is actually in the DMG on page 28. yes, but that IS a variant rule, which not everyone uses.
Dnarris 06-28-07, 08:48 PM	yes, but that IS a variant rule, which not everyone uses. Either way it makes sense variant or not. Who says that a medium greataxe wouldn't have the same grip as a large battle axe? I guess that would be up to the DM...just like whether a variant rule is used or not. Either way what I've stated is supported by the rules...variant or not. And you said that he'd be using a large battle axe not a medium greataxe, he could, but at a -2 penalty. Well, that variant rule treats a medium great axe like it were a large battle axe. The weapons are similar enough that it's reasonable to assume a creature of a larger size could employ the weapon as a different category of a weapon.
AAB 06-29-07, 12:14 AM	Either way it makes sense variant or not. Who says that a medium greataxe wouldn't have the same grip as a large battle axe? think of the diameter of the handles involved. one has to fit in a human's hands. the other has to fit an ogre's hands. the ogre using a medium greataxe would be like a human using an axe with a handle 1" in diameter (an approximation, no math/anything here).
Dnarris 06-29-07, 12:21 AM	think of the diameter of the handles involved. one has to fit in a human's hands. the other has to fit an ogre's hands. the ogre using a medium greataxe would be like a human using an axe with a handle 1" in diameter (an approximation, no math/anything here). Why think of diameter? There's a rule that supports it, it can be a reasonable assumption...there's no need to get any further into detail or physics. I suppose that's a reason why it's a rule left up to the DM. If I were a DM I'd allow it and obviously you wouldn't if you were the DM.
LoneStranger 06-29-07, 01:23 AM	Axe Frenzy is possible with the greataxe, but you need the feat Monkey Grip to pull it off. You take a -2 to your attack roll to wield a two-handed weapon one-handed (a reason for greater weapon focus I think).
Sigfried Trent 07-03-07, 07:33 PM	Hi all! I'm going to take a look at the wording of the feat and see if I can clear it up. I think the special section is trying to clasify "what is an axe?" since it isn't explicitly defined in the game rules. As you point out however the feat would generaly preclude you using a Great Axe because it requires a one handed weapon. I believe the one handed requrement is there as a matter of keeping the feat from being unbalancing due to the strenght of two handed weapons in general. We have a few of these feats that allow an extra attack in some circumstance. My playtesting has shown them to be most appropriate for a high powered game, as a clever player can generaly minimize the down side. On the other hand there are a fair number of standard feats that are of a similar power level in the right circumstance. We like to pride ourselves on quality and keeping our feats up to date rules wise. But its a big collection and it really helps when our readers send us issues they find. So.. if anyone runs into something that doesn't look right or is unclear, please send us an email about it. You can send it to... Sigfried@gmail.com or link from the website at www.datadeco.com/nbofeats You can just google "feats" as well