Bardic Knowledge 60 =? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bardic Knowledge 60 =? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pascalnz
12-11-07, 02:28 PM I have a high level character that can get his Bardic knowledge check around 60 most of the time. I was just wondering what level of knowledge that could get him. considering a dc 30 check can give info like a famous wizards childhood nickname , or the history of a petty magic item.
Would you perhaps know the history of a petty non magic item.. everyones name? everyones history you ever see? would such knowledge eventually make you go mad, you couldn't look at anythign without knowing who made it and why and if their mum makes good cupcakes and what recipie , and who invented that etc etc.
any thoughts appreciated
InkBlot
12-11-07, 04:33 PM I can't see how it would make you go mad. It's not like this information is being forcibly pumped into his mind. This isn't Call Of Cthulu. Using bardic knowledge is an active ability. You have to make the check. Your character has to think for a second, "what was it I heard about Mrs. Robinson? Oh yeah. That incident. Wait.... why do I know that?"

How did you get your modifier that high? It's Bard level + Int modifier. If you're playing in an Epic game, then somebody in your group should have a copy of the Epic Level Handbook. Have you looked in there? If there's nothing on epic bardic knowledge, perhaps you could figure something out from epic Knowledge or epic Gather Information checks.
Jaxgaret
12-11-07, 05:13 PM Knowledge does not possess an epic usage.

This doesn't apply directly to Bardic Knowledge, of course.

But it is funny :)
Meep222
12-18-07, 03:59 PM I really hate the way Bardic Knowledge (and by extension, anything that fuctions like it) works. If there is no knowledge to gather, or noone who knows anything about it, how are you able to gather the knowledge? For example, something happens 10,000 years ago, and you get a 30 knowledge check, could you get information on that event if there was no record of it? But anything abot 40-50 would be feasable to find out if you had a source of information.
pascalnz
12-18-07, 05:42 PM as long as there has been some record of it somewhere, or even if people know something about it even if the don't actually realise what it means is enough for bardic knowledge.
I do have the epic level handbook but sadly it contains no info on it.. hence coming to the boards.
the character is level 27 and has a +15 int modifier and took levels of loremaster, ardentte dilletant, and a level of bard all of these classes have a variant of bardic knowledge which stacks. also you gain synergy form knowledge history and there is a feat and an item and an ability form exemplar that all add to the bardic knowledge check.

I also popped this question on the op board:P.
as for having a source of knowledge, getting your check higher presumes you have gone out and studied in ancient libraries talked to other historians etc etc to gain that much more knowledge. heck a thigh enoguh levels it's concievable that a bard or someone with good enoguh perform or jsut a good enough reason conversed with gods in thier off time .
Edymnion
12-18-07, 06:22 PM I really hate the way Bardic Knowledge (and by extension, anything that fuctions like it) works. If there is no knowledge to gather, or noone who knows anything about it, how are you able to gather the knowledge? For example, something happens 10,000 years ago, and you get a 30 knowledge check, could you get information on that event if there was no record of it? But anything abot 40-50 would be feasable to find out if you had a source of information.No, you can't get information on something where there is no information available. It doesn't matter how many ranks in Knowledge (Useless Movie Trivia) you have, you don't know who the the star of the movie script I'm writing in a notebook and haven't shown to anyone is.

There is such a thing as an impossible skill check, where you simply cannot make the check, no matter how high your bonus is. For example, no amount of Knowledge (Local) in Eberron is ever going to tell you where an inn in Waterdeep is.
JulesCARV
12-18-07, 07:10 PM Basically, I'd think of it as the equivalent of having access to pretty much the whole Library of Congress and the internet in your mind, with the relevant information pretty much immediately within grasp, plus a very good intuitive ability to distinguish true information from false information. (e.g., you can pull up an extraordinarily thorough mental Wikipedia entry on Waterdeep, and you can see where people have put in biased information, and know that it's biased while still seeing it (after all, knowing what lies and falsehoods people commonly say or believe is frequently useful, so long as you know that they're lies and falsehoods).)
Jaxgaret
12-19-07, 12:41 AM For example, no amount of Knowledge (Local) in Eberron is ever going to tell you where an inn in Waterdeep is.

Depends on what kind of campaign you're running :)

Some DMs overlap multiple Material Planes in the game world or connect them together via the Astral Plane or places like Sigil.
Wheldrake
12-19-07, 01:11 AM Lies, damn lies, and statistics!
MnemonicSV
12-19-07, 01:27 AM No, you can't get information on something where there is no information available. It doesn't matter how many ranks in Knowledge (Useless Movie Trivia) you have, you don't know who the the star of the movie script I'm writing in a notebook and haven't shown to anyone is.

There is such a thing as an impossible skill check, where you simply cannot make the check, no matter how high your bonus is. For example, no amount of Knowledge (Local) in Eberron is ever going to tell you where an inn in Waterdeep is.

At epic level... I'm not so sure. Using the example given above, one could theoretically make an epic level bardic knowledge check to discover the star of that unseen movie script. He need merely be able to gleen who would write such a movie, what he knows of you, and then what he suspects you to name the star. With a DC way up in the hundreds, I suppose he could make it (his presumptions are accurate: he successfully correlated and extrapolated from what little he did actually know). Some of that isn't so much knowledge gained, as knowledge presumed, but at epic level, shouldn't that be possible? Couldn't an epic level bard make a "wild guess" and have it actually be accurate to some extent?

Of course, would that all be one check, or would that be a series of "nested" checks? For example, If a bard wanted to discover the name of his friend's neighbour's uncle's second cousin twice removed; Is that all in one check, or is that three checks? Perhaps epic-level usage allows you to do all that in one check.

Just tossing some ideas about. :)
Jaxgaret
12-19-07, 01:58 AM At epic level... I'm not so sure. Using the example given above, one could theoretically make an epic level bardic knowledge check to discover the star of that unseen movie script. He need merely be able to gleen who would write such a movie, what he knows of you, and then what he suspects you to name the star. With a DC way up in the hundreds, I suppose he could make it (his presumptions are accurate: he successfully correlated and extrapolated from what little he did actually know). Some of that isn't so much knowledge gained, as knowledge presumed, but at epic level, shouldn't that be possible? Couldn't an epic level bard make a "wild guess" and have it actually be accurate to some extent?

Of course, would that all be one check, or would that be a series of "nested" checks? For example, If a bard wanted to discover the name of his friend's neighbour's uncle's second cousin twice removed; Is that all in one check, or is that three checks? Perhaps epic-level usage allows you to do all that in one check.

Just tossing some ideas about. :)

Good ideas, Mnemonic.

One thing to remember is something that this article (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html) explained quite well: high level characters are absolutely ridiculous in the things that they can accomplish.

A 5th level character is verging on world-class RL abilities. A 10th level character can basically surpass anything anyone in the real world can do.

Thus, a very high, Epic-type Bardic Knowledge check does indeed pass into the realm of just knowing so much sheer stuff that you can start putting 2 and 2 together, and all sorts of imaginary numbers and hypotheticals, and perhaps you can figure something out that seems 'impossible' to know.
MnemonicSV
12-19-07, 03:08 AM One thing to remember is something that this article (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html) explained quite well: high level characters are absolutely ridiculous in the things that they can accomplish.

That was an excellent read. Thanks for linking it! :)
Quack_Moo
12-19-07, 04:59 AM That was an excellent read. Thanks for linking it! :)

Seconded.

Anyway, the kinds of things that an epic level character can accomplish can make the DM cry. Epic level characters are awesome (the real definition, not the common use). If an epic level rogue can use Escape Artist to pass through a Wall of Force then I think it's safe to assume that a Bardic Knowledge check of 60 is actually divination; Clairsentience and Pre-and-post-sentience should be achievable at that level.

You are the Kwisatz Haderach.
Jaxgaret
12-19-07, 02:28 PM That was an excellent read. Thanks for linking it! :)

Seconded.

You're quite welcome. Spread the good word.

You are the Kwisatz Haderach.

No, please, you're perhaps going just a bit too far in praising my gloriousness.

(Kidding)

:)
CryoSilver
12-19-07, 03:28 PM Reading that article filled me with the kind of joy I usually reserve for opening a new bottle of 18 year old scotch, or going to a metal concert where they're handing out free towels to wipe the emo blood off your curb-stompin' boots.

I've been saying for as long as I've been posting here that there is almost no one in a non-D&D world that cannot be easily represented by a character of 5th level or lower.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pascalnz 12-11-07, 02:28 PM	I have a high level character that can get his Bardic knowledge check around 60 most of the time. I was just wondering what level of knowledge that could get him. considering a dc 30 check can give info like a famous wizards childhood nickname , or the history of a petty magic item. Would you perhaps know the history of a petty non magic item.. everyones name? everyones history you ever see? would such knowledge eventually make you go mad, you couldn't look at anythign without knowing who made it and why and if their mum makes good cupcakes and what recipie , and who invented that etc etc. any thoughts appreciated
InkBlot 12-11-07, 04:33 PM	I can't see how it would make you go mad. It's not like this information is being forcibly pumped into his mind. This isn't Call Of Cthulu. Using bardic knowledge is an active ability. You have to make the check. Your character has to think for a second, "what was it I heard about Mrs. Robinson? Oh yeah. That incident. Wait.... why do I know that?" How did you get your modifier that high? It's Bard level + Int modifier. If you're playing in an Epic game, then somebody in your group should have a copy of the Epic Level Handbook. Have you looked in there? If there's nothing on epic bardic knowledge, perhaps you could figure something out from epic Knowledge or epic Gather Information checks.
Jaxgaret 12-11-07, 05:13 PM	Knowledge does not possess an epic usage. This doesn't apply directly to Bardic Knowledge, of course. But it is funny :)
Meep222 12-18-07, 03:59 PM	I really hate the way Bardic Knowledge (and by extension, anything that fuctions like it) works. If there is no knowledge to gather, or noone who knows anything about it, how are you able to gather the knowledge? For example, something happens 10,000 years ago, and you get a 30 knowledge check, could you get information on that event if there was no record of it? But anything abot 40-50 would be feasable to find out if you had a source of information.
pascalnz 12-18-07, 05:42 PM	as long as there has been some record of it somewhere, or even if people know something about it even if the don't actually realise what it means is enough for bardic knowledge. I do have the epic level handbook but sadly it contains no info on it.. hence coming to the boards. the character is level 27 and has a +15 int modifier and took levels of loremaster, ardentte dilletant, and a level of bard all of these classes have a variant of bardic knowledge which stacks. also you gain synergy form knowledge history and there is a feat and an item and an ability form exemplar that all add to the bardic knowledge check. I also popped this question on the op board:P. as for having a source of knowledge, getting your check higher presumes you have gone out and studied in ancient libraries talked to other historians etc etc to gain that much more knowledge. heck a thigh enoguh levels it's concievable that a bard or someone with good enoguh perform or jsut a good enough reason conversed with gods in thier off time .
Edymnion 12-18-07, 06:22 PM	I really hate the way Bardic Knowledge (and by extension, anything that fuctions like it) works. If there is no knowledge to gather, or noone who knows anything about it, how are you able to gather the knowledge? For example, something happens 10,000 years ago, and you get a 30 knowledge check, could you get information on that event if there was no record of it? But anything abot 40-50 would be feasable to find out if you had a source of information.No, you can't get information on something where there is no information available. It doesn't matter how many ranks in Knowledge (Useless Movie Trivia) you have, you don't know who the the star of the movie script I'm writing in a notebook and haven't shown to anyone is. There is such a thing as an impossible skill check, where you simply cannot make the check, no matter how high your bonus is. For example, no amount of Knowledge (Local) in Eberron is ever going to tell you where an inn in Waterdeep is.
JulesCARV 12-18-07, 07:10 PM	Basically, I'd think of it as the equivalent of having access to pretty much the whole Library of Congress and the internet in your mind, with the relevant information pretty much immediately within grasp, plus a very good intuitive ability to distinguish true information from false information. (e.g., you can pull up an extraordinarily thorough mental Wikipedia entry on Waterdeep, and you can see where people have put in biased information, and know that it's biased while still seeing it (after all, knowing what lies and falsehoods people commonly say or believe is frequently useful, so long as you know that they're lies and falsehoods).)
Jaxgaret 12-19-07, 12:41 AM	For example, no amount of Knowledge (Local) in Eberron is ever going to tell you where an inn in Waterdeep is. Depends on what kind of campaign you're running :) Some DMs overlap multiple Material Planes in the game world or connect them together via the Astral Plane or places like Sigil.
Wheldrake 12-19-07, 01:11 AM	Lies, damn lies, and statistics!
MnemonicSV 12-19-07, 01:27 AM	No, you can't get information on something where there is no information available. It doesn't matter how many ranks in Knowledge (Useless Movie Trivia) you have, you don't know who the the star of the movie script I'm writing in a notebook and haven't shown to anyone is. There is such a thing as an impossible skill check, where you simply cannot make the check, no matter how high your bonus is. For example, no amount of Knowledge (Local) in Eberron is ever going to tell you where an inn in Waterdeep is. At epic level... I'm not so sure. Using the example given above, one could theoretically make an epic level bardic knowledge check to discover the star of that unseen movie script. He need merely be able to gleen who would write such a movie, what he knows of you, and then what he suspects you to name the star. With a DC way up in the hundreds, I suppose he could make it (his presumptions are accurate: he successfully correlated and extrapolated from what little he did actually know). Some of that isn't so much knowledge gained, as knowledge presumed, but at epic level, shouldn't that be possible? Couldn't an epic level bard make a "wild guess" and have it actually be accurate to some extent? Of course, would that all be one check, or would that be a series of "nested" checks? For example, If a bard wanted to discover the name of his friend's neighbour's uncle's second cousin twice removed; Is that all in one check, or is that three checks? Perhaps epic-level usage allows you to do all that in one check. Just tossing some ideas about. :)
Jaxgaret 12-19-07, 01:58 AM	At epic level... I'm not so sure. Using the example given above, one could theoretically make an epic level bardic knowledge check to discover the star of that unseen movie script. He need merely be able to gleen who would write such a movie, what he knows of you, and then what he suspects you to name the star. With a DC way up in the hundreds, I suppose he could make it (his presumptions are accurate: he successfully correlated and extrapolated from what little he did actually know). Some of that isn't so much knowledge gained, as knowledge presumed, but at epic level, shouldn't that be possible? Couldn't an epic level bard make a "wild guess" and have it actually be accurate to some extent? Of course, would that all be one check, or would that be a series of "nested" checks? For example, If a bard wanted to discover the name of his friend's neighbour's uncle's second cousin twice removed; Is that all in one check, or is that three checks? Perhaps epic-level usage allows you to do all that in one check. Just tossing some ideas about. :) Good ideas, Mnemonic. One thing to remember is something that this article (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html) explained quite well: high level characters are absolutely ridiculous in the things that they can accomplish. A 5th level character is verging on world-class RL abilities. A 10th level character can basically surpass anything anyone in the real world can do. Thus, a very high, Epic-type Bardic Knowledge check does indeed pass into the realm of just knowing so much sheer stuff that you can start putting 2 and 2 together, and all sorts of imaginary numbers and hypotheticals, and perhaps you can figure something out that seems 'impossible' to know.
MnemonicSV 12-19-07, 03:08 AM	One thing to remember is something that this article (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html) explained quite well: high level characters are absolutely ridiculous in the things that they can accomplish. That was an excellent read. Thanks for linking it! :)
Quack_Moo 12-19-07, 04:59 AM	That was an excellent read. Thanks for linking it! :) Seconded. Anyway, the kinds of things that an epic level character can accomplish can make the DM cry. Epic level characters are awesome (the real definition, not the common use). If an epic level rogue can use Escape Artist to pass through a Wall of Force then I think it's safe to assume that a Bardic Knowledge check of 60 is actually divination; Clairsentience and Pre-and-post-sentience should be achievable at that level. You are the Kwisatz Haderach.
Jaxgaret 12-19-07, 02:28 PM	That was an excellent read. Thanks for linking it! :) Seconded. You're quite welcome. Spread the good word. You are the Kwisatz Haderach. No, please, you're perhaps going just a bit too far in praising my gloriousness. (Kidding) :)
CryoSilver 12-19-07, 03:28 PM	Reading that article filled me with the kind of joy I usually reserve for opening a new bottle of 18 year old scotch, or going to a metal concert where they're handing out free towels to wipe the emo blood off your curb-stompin' boots. I've been saying for as long as I've been posting here that there is almost no one in a non-D&D world that cannot be easily represented by a character of 5th level or lower.