Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dragonman1979 04-28-07, 01:52 AM	Lets say I had a druid that sought to learn the Dragon Wild Shape feat. The prerequisites are Wis 19, Knowledge (Nature) 15 ranks, and a wild shape ability already. Let's say that my druid has the knowledge nature down, and he has the wild shape ability, but a wisdom score of 17. If he were to find a magic item that raised his Wis to 19, could he learn this feat? If the magic item were lost or destroyed after he learned it, would he be able to use it at Wis 17? The rules say he has to have Wis 19 to learn it, not use it :)
runestar 04-28-07, 02:05 AM	Yes, he would, though it may run into some complications when you try to use the feat. If dragon wildshape follows the new wildshape errata, this means your amulet of wis melds into your new form, thus causing your wis to fall and disqualifying you for said feat. I am not sure what impact that may have though, but I think you can work around that by casting owl's wisdom prior to wildshaping.
Derren S. 04-28-07, 02:41 AM	Owls Wisdom and with it the dragon wild shape would only last some minutes, so it would be a pure combat wildshape (not really an disadvantage) A related question, why does dragon wild shape need Kn. nature and not Kn: arcana?
Vaelan 04-28-07, 04:23 AM	Owls Wisdom and with it the dragon wild shape would only last some minutes, so it would be a pure combat wildshape (not really an disadvantage) There is no reason for the effect to end. Not meeting the prereqs for a feat means you can't use the feat, but you've already used it so nothing woudl happen. A related question, why does dragon wild shape need Kn. nature and not Kn: arcana? Because Druids don't get Knowledge: Arcana.
Derren S. 04-28-07, 11:03 AM	Yes, but Kn: arcana is used for dragon lore, not Kn: nature. So how would Kn: nature help you with wildshaping into a dragon when it does not give you any knowledge about dragons? Druids are able to take cross class skills and they can also multiclass.
The_Shaman 04-28-07, 01:44 PM	There are those tomes that boost a character's stat permanently... Perhaps the druid could get a +2 one?
Vaelan 04-28-07, 04:38 PM	Yes, but Kn: arcana is used for dragon lore, not Kn: nature. I am aware of that. It does not change the fact that the Knowledge: Nature requirement is there because it is a feat meant for Druids. Druids are able to take cross class skills and they can also multiclass.Druids are able to take cross class skills and they can also multiclass. The feat was meant to be used by high-level Druids. If they made it Knowledge: Arcana it would have to be a low rank as it is not a class skill. If they made it a low rank, you could multiclass or take feats that add class skills to get it early. If they kept it at a high rank, people would have to multiclass to take it. It isn't powerful enough to warrant that from a balance perspective and from a design perspective, making people multiclass to get a feat that only applies to one class feature is really rather silly. The way I see it, they took the least ridiculous of two ridiculous options.
runestar 04-28-07, 11:30 PM	15 ranks of knowledge arcana would require a druid to take either the education feat(not a core feat), or be at least lv30. By that time, you might as well take the superior "dragon wildshape" epic feat instead. Having to multiclass just to qualify for said feat also does not make sense from a thematic POV. Why should a druid have to deviate from his training to become more of a druid then he is? In game terms, this means "Why must he multiclass out of a druid to qualify for a druid-only feat?":confused: They are already unfairly screwed over by the heirophant prc and its stupid "knowledge religion: 15 ranks" requirement. Please don't exacerbate it...:weep:
Drachasor 04-28-07, 11:37 PM	I believe the Magic Item Compendium has an upgraded version of the Wildling Clasp. (I've heard this is the case). Get that and a +2 (or more) wisdom item, and you definitely won't have problems. -Drachasor
Drachasor 04-28-07, 11:43 PM	Yes, but Kn: arcana is used for dragon lore, not Kn: nature. So how would Kn: nature help you with wildshaping into a dragon when it does not give you any knowledge about dragons? Druids are able to take cross class skills and they can also multiclass. The knowledge stuff is a little messy though. Afterall, monstrous humanoids fit into knowledge(nature) and so do animals. Magical beasts don't (even though many are largely like animals), nor do humanoids (even though many live relatively 'natural' lives. Honestly, is a Dragon so unnatural? The prerequisites seem fine to me, imho. -Drachasor
Derren S. 04-29-07, 04:31 AM	You use Kn: arcana for knowledge about dragons. That is a fact. That druids can wildshape into dragons because they have great knowledge about nature and and know nothing about dragons is pure nonsense. Even if they didn't want to force the druid to multiclass (imo not that bad) they could have changed the requirements into something which makes more sense than this.
runestar 04-29-07, 07:03 AM	That druids can wildshape into dragons because they have great knowledge about nature and and know nothing about dragons is pure nonsense. Even if they didn't want to force the druid to multiclass (imo not that bad) they could have changed the requirements into something which makes more sense than this. And what is your recommendation?
Cuthics 05-10-07, 04:24 PM	the way i see dragons live in nature and are part of the cycle of thing even though that puts them at the top of the food chain they still play a role with nature
wonlee76 05-10-07, 04:37 PM	Regarding the pre-req of Knowledge (Nature), I would just say it could be simply an application of Knowledge (Nature) to modify the Wildshape ability. It has nothing to do with a druid's knowledge of dragons but rather an application to modify a druid's own ability which in this case I would say falls in the Knowledge (Nature) category.