Best skills and feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best skills and feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Stolide
10-30-07, 09:34 AM Thats it, I just want to hear what most people think are the best skills and feats. Just give which are best in general, or for a specific character archetype.
Orenmir
10-30-07, 09:53 AM Generally, I don't think there are any specific skills that are must for every character. It really depends on class, race, ability scores, and flavor.

There are several ways to go when choosing skill ranks.

1. Play to your strengths. Get ranks in skills that you already have high ability mods in.

2. Play to your class. A Rogue typically should have many ranks in Hide, Spot, Listen. A Wizard -- Concentration, Spellcraft, Knowledge-Arcana. You get the idea.

3. Go with flavor. I once played a Fighter with a dump for Charisma; but, I still loaded his Intimidate ranks because I felt he should be....well, intimidating.

Give us some more detail about your character; especially class, race, scores, and flavor.
Orenmir
10-30-07, 09:56 AM Sorry, I spoke entirely of skills and not of feats.

In general, I think Improved Initiative is a good feat for all classes (maybe excluding a sniper - they almost always get the surprise round). If your DM will allow feat re-training, Toughness is good for everybody (then retrain to Improved Toughness at 4th level, or something else). After that, it really depends on class and role of the character in the party.
Eerongal
10-30-07, 10:05 AM Generally, I don't think there are any specific skills that are must for every character. It really depends on class, race, ability scores, and flavor.

There are several ways to go when choosing skill ranks.

1. Play to your strengths. Get ranks in skills that you already have high ability mods in.

2. Play to your class. A Rogue typically should have many ranks in Hide, Spot, Listen. A Wizard -- Concentration, Spellcraft, Knowledge-Arcana. You get the idea.

3. Go with flavor. I once played a Fighter with a dump for Charisma; but, I still loaded his Intimidate ranks because I felt he should be....well, intimidating.

Give us some more detail about your character; especially class, race, scores, and flavor.

i agree, there's no real "best" skills/feats that everyone needs.

However, some of my favorites:

Feats:
Adaptive flanker - If you have reach, and an ally threatens an enemy you threaten, you are flanking. Handy for rogues, but all in all just kinda neat in my opinion.

Divine feats - I play alot of paladins/clerics, so i usually have turn/rebukes and never use them. With these, i do.

Most Reserve feats - May be weak, but adds some longetivity to a caster's day.

Power attack - A basic, simple feat. Almost a must have for most melee. It may be basic and simple, but my god is it good.

Improved toughness - I like HP. That is all.

Diehard - I like fighting to the very end. No falling and laying there dying for me.

Skills:

Perform(dance - any kind) - 'Nuff said. Every character needs at least 1 or 2 points in this, if only to show off :D

Jump - Because if you get it high enough, you can get over anything. Also, falling down everything sucks.

Tumble - Just plain handy.

Bluff - Who needs fighting skills with this?
Stolide
10-30-07, 10:35 AM "Generally, I don't think there are any specific skills that are must for every character. It really depends on class, race, ability scores, and flavor."

I agree but I said...

"Just give which are best in general, or for a specific character archetype."

I knew people were going to say that, but I still wanted some sort of feats you like. Basically like Eerongal's post.

I really like survival as a skill for any class. It gives you a better chance of getting food and water if you ever run out... (I have)
Orenmir
10-30-07, 11:04 AM "Just give which are best in general, or..."

Sorry I didn't answer up to your expectations.
Stolide
10-30-07, 11:07 AM Thats okay, I'm sorry if I came off as rude...

I actually expected people to post the way you did, so thats why I added in that clause.
HARLEYDUDE
10-30-07, 11:47 AM Wow I was going to submit a new thread today to ask advice on what 12th level feat i should take. I am playing a 4th level duskblade/1st level fighter/6th level beast heart (dungenscape PrC). I have a 3/day belt of growth. so i do have reach for the big fights. I also have teamwork feats with my animal companions.(owlbear, worg). My question is where is this feat located? what are the prerequits for it?

Feats:
Adaptive flanker - If you have reach, and an ally threatens an enemy you threaten, you are flanking. Handy for rogues, but all in all just kinda neat in my opinion.

thanks
HD
Eerongal
10-30-07, 11:52 AM Wow I was going to submit a new thread today to ask advice on what 12th level feat i should take. I am playing a 4th level duskblade/1st level fighter/6th level beast heart (dungenscape PrC). I have a 3/day belt of growth. so i do have reach for the big fights. I also have teamwork feats with my animal companions.(owlbear, worg). My question is where is this feat located? what are the prerequits for it?

thanks
HD

PHBII. I'm not sure of the exact requirements, off hand. I'm away from book. But the general benefit of the feat is that it allows you to count as being in any square you threaten for the purpose of flanking.

For example:
C - Character with adaptive flanking
A - Ally
E - Enemy

___
AE_
__C

If character C has adaptive flanking, and standard 5 foot reach, the character counts as standing in the square just above him for flanking purposes, and is thusly flanking with character A. If you have reach (spiked chain anyone?) This is very very helpful.
LSMFT
10-30-07, 12:27 PM One of the best feat/skill combos I've seen recently is knowledge skills/Knowledge Devotion.
Tordak
10-30-07, 12:46 PM Most usefull skills for everybody (not everybody get them as class skill though) : Tumble. Jump is a close second. Spot and listen are also incredibly usefull.

Most usefull feat for everyone : improved initiative. Diehard is probably equally good, in case of accident. I find fearless destiny (races of destiny) to be an extremely valuable feat for humans and half-humans.

For the rest, like it has been said already, it depends on the character you built. Any fighting class (even wizard bent on fighting) can make good use of power attack.
Lokathor
10-30-07, 12:53 PM Skills:
Use Magic Device
Tumble
Use Magic Device
Balance
Diplomacy
Use Magic Device

Feats:
Leadership
Improved Initiative
Power Attack
Sudden Extend Spell
LSMFT
10-30-07, 01:14 PM How does Sudden Extend make your list?
Lokathor
10-30-07, 01:55 PM Sudden Extend is awesome! You never know when one of the 1rnd/lvl spells your 3rd or 4th level dude has might need to last a few extra rounds. And it's not like you can afford to pay the +1 slot level cost while you're in the low-levels anyways.

Lots of other helpful metamagic feats require "any 1 other metamagic", so Sudden Extend can fit the bill. Later on when you want things extended more often, you can pick up a Rod of Extend, or retrain it into the full version.
Orenmir
10-30-07, 02:28 PM And... Balance?

In all my years of playing D&D, I can't remember when I've ever made a balance check.
LSMFT
10-30-07, 02:30 PM I don't know. I agree with all your other mentions.

You do never know when you need another round or two, until you need another round or two. By which time, the spell has already been cast. In most cases, I can really tell which spells I’m going to want to extend, and the +1 adjustment for regular Extend makes a once-per-day version seem wasted.

Though, in the case of Sudden Still or Silent, I can really see the “not knowing when you’ll need it” thing making them valuable.
LSMFT
10-30-07, 02:33 PM And... Balance?That I can see.

I routinely use spells like Grease to force Balance checks and allow SA for a party rogue. So, as a player, I like 5 ranks in Balance to protect myself from the same trick.

A cheap +2 bonus from synergy is nice for Tumblers too.
Stolide
10-30-07, 03:28 PM I like to use grease as well. One of my favorite spells. You can also set it on fire... :evillaugh
Lokathor
10-30-07, 04:29 PM You do never know when you need another round or two, until you need another round or two. By which time, the spell has already been cast. In most cases, I can really tell which spells I’m going to want to extend, and the +1 adjustment for regular Extend makes a once-per-day version seem wasted.

But that's the point, even up to level 5, you can't really spare the slot levels to extend a spell normally because the next higher up slot is still way better than an extended anything.

I guess it depends on if you're using retraining or not.
LSMFT
10-30-07, 04:43 PM I guess it depends on if you're using retraining or not.Yeah, I haven't used them much, though they've been around for a while.

I like to use grease as well. One of my favorite spells. You can also set it on fire... :evillaughNot without a benevolent DM and a houserule or two.
Stolide
10-31-07, 08:28 AM Doesn't it coat everything in grease or oil? Everyone one I have played with assumes that it burns.
Tordak
10-31-07, 09:08 AM It does, but not every 'grease' burns(altough in extreme condition everything 'burns'). Plus it's hard to relate a magic spell to real life and inferred that conjured grease burn, unless you decide so as a DM. If magic was logic, you and I would be throwing fireballs all over the place and flying to work or school, and girls would have see invisibility to dig out those invisible suckers in the locker room.
mkill
10-31-07, 10:03 AM And... Balance?

In all my years of playing D&D, I can't remember when I've ever made a balance check.

Really? My poor cleric in the LG campaign had to make a Balance check every darn fricking adventure. I don't know why, but the LG authors seemed to thing Balance checks are a good idea to spice up an adventure.

Hint: They are not.

It's not fun if the rest of the party is slaughtered by some Hobgoblin Barbarian, while the Fighter and the Cleric (Balance is cross-class skill, nearly no skill points, and heavy armor) lie down drowning in a small stream because they fell from a bridge.

In other adventures, my Cleric fell into manure, into a slave pit, and he almost fell into lava, all because of prescribed Balance checks.

He is level 3 now.
Baldwinthemerciful
10-31-07, 03:01 PM And... Balance?

In all my years of playing D&D, I can't remember when I've ever made a balance check.

The character in my campaign routinely make balance and jump checks.

As far as my favorite skills:

Open Lock
Disable device,
tumble
jump

Feats:

Improved Initiative
Stolide
10-31-07, 03:12 PM Improved initative seems to be a common favorite, Why is that? What makes a bonus to initiative so important. (I know, I just want to hear your views.)
Orenmir
10-31-07, 03:38 PM Improved initative seems to be a common favorite, Why is that? What makes a bonus to initiative so important. (I know, I just want to hear your views.)

Especially at low levels, killing a foe can take as little as one round. If you get to go first, your foe doesn't even get a chance to hit you.

In general, it's always best to go first. You essentially get one more attack on your opponent (because odds are: you'll kill him, not the other way around). It's also good for tactics and manuevering on the combat grid. If you want to see where you opponent goes first, you can always stall one round or drink a potion or do some buffing.

Let's face it... How often do you win the coin toss and choose to kick? Everybody wants to receive.
Eerongal
10-31-07, 03:51 PM Let's face it... How often do you win the coin toss and choose to kick? Everybody wants to receive.

That depends, we still talking about combat, or football?

I want to kick if it's combat :D
LSMFT
10-31-07, 03:53 PM Especially at low levels, killing a foe can take as little as one round. And on the flip side, you can die in as little as one round at low levels too. Acting first is a big deal.
curtis_ownby
10-31-07, 04:41 PM Feats:

Quick Draw is always good for drawing a dagger to throw when they ar just a little to far away.

Combat Exspertise because a litte higher AC is almost always a good thing.

Stone Power because a few temerary hit points if always good.

Skills: Tumble is good for any one at least five ranks to get the bounus to total defence and fighting defenceivly.
Baldwinthemerciful
10-31-07, 07:26 PM With improved initiative, i like to take advantage of going at the top of the order when attacking; especially, if I am playing a rogue type character. When playing a rogue type character I then add Weapon Finesse, so I can use my dexterity modifier on attack rolls.

I'm playing a 4th level elf rogue right now in one low magic campaign and I'm sporting a 20 Dex. but my BAB is +8 and my improved initiative is a +9. Add in a maxed out move silently, tumble, balance, hide, sleight of hand, open locks, listen, spot and search and he makes for fun character to play.
Operation_Shoestring
10-31-07, 08:26 PM TUMBLE. For the love of Pelor, TUMBLE. There's so much you can do with it.
plain
11-03-07, 04:58 AM Agree with tumble..
Especially with a thief acrobat, (bye bye AoO-s... forever... :) )
papawolf2
11-03-07, 09:49 PM one good combo of skills and feats are for thiefs..... Feat:improved feint alows you to feint then attack in the same round....lots of damage. If you want to be realy horrible you use a spiked chain and get the feats: wirl wind attack, and cleave....later improved cleave. this will alow you to sneak attack all enemies around you. To be even worse there is a feat that alows you to wield a larger chain with even greater range. by epic lvl you will clear battle fields. (especialy if you multiclass with fighter). Another is to take the feats maximize and empower and aply it to magic missile. There is another feat that also increases the lvl of the spell so it does even more damage. Basicaly just deck out magic missile as many ways as possible you never miss! Those are a couple of horrible ideas that just keep on killing. Skills important to these are Bluff, spell craft ,and concentration. Of corse it never hurts to have move silent and hide. Well let me know what you think.
papawolf2
11-03-07, 09:50 PM one good combo of skills and feats are for thiefs..... Feat:improved feint alows you to feint then attack in the same round....lots of damage. If you want to be realy horrible you use a spiked chain and get the feats: wirl wind attack, and cleave....later improved cleave. this will alow you to sneak attack all enemies around you. To be even worse there is a feat that alows you to wield a larger chain with even greater range. by epic lvl you will clear battle fields. (especialy if you multiclass with fighter). Another is to take the feats maximize and empower and aply it to magic missile. There is another feat that also increases the lvl of the spell so it does even more damage. Basicaly just deck out magic missile as many ways as possible you never miss! Those are a couple of horrible ideas that just keep on killing. Skills important to these are Bluff, spell craft ,and concentration. Of corse it never hurts to have move silent and hide. Well let me know what you think.
papawolf2
11-03-07, 09:50 PM one good combo of skills and feats are for thiefs..... Feat:improved feint alows you to feint then attack in the same round....lots of damage. If you want to be realy horrible you use a spiked chain and get the feats: wirl wind attack, and cleave....later improved cleave. this will alow you to sneak attack all enemies around you. To be even worse there is a feat that alows you to wield a larger chain with even greater range. by epic lvl you will clear battle fields. (especialy if you multiclass with fighter). Another is to take the feats maximize and empower and aply it to magic missile. There is another feat that also increases the lvl of the spell so it does even more damage. Basicaly just deck out magic missile as many ways as possible you never miss! Those are a couple of horrible ideas that just keep on killing. Skills important to these are Bluff, spell craft ,and concentration. Of corse it never hurts to have move silent and hide. Well let me know what you think.
Arco Versipellis
11-03-07, 11:37 PM Perform, but I am a musician, so I am biased. Seriously, someting like it or profession (gambler) or even tumble can really make a trip to town fun for the party.

Use Magic Device is great skill. Autohypnosis is, too. They can be used to influence combat, but they also carry a lot of flavor with them. Survival is a great one to grab if you can.

Improved Initiative is nice in general. Deadly Precision is my favorite rogue feat, and I like Ironskin Chant.
Operation_Shoestring
11-04-07, 04:28 AM Perform, but I am a musician, so I am biased. Seriously, someting like it or profession (gambler) or even tumble can really make a trip to town fun for the party.

Use Magic Device is great skill. Autohypnosis is, too. They can be used to influence combat, but they also carry a lot of flavor with them. Survival is a great one to grab if you can.

Improved Initiative is nice in general. Deadly Precision is my favorite rogue feat, and I like Ironskin Chant.

We take it or granted that everyone knows that UMD = the god skill.

Perform and Knowledge skills are quite awesome if used well. Especially if your DM is not strict about how he interprets Versatile Performer as regarding skill rank requirements for item use if the former case, and if you play Archivist in the latter.
tomersss
11-04-07, 06:03 AM iron will
Lightning Reflexes
Great Fortitude
these are my best pals.
Oromis_Shurtugal
11-04-07, 06:29 AM I definitely agree with Improved Init. and Improved Toughness and Diehard, but also take (for monks) : Freezing the lifeblood :monk: , extra stunning :monk: , weakening touch :monk: . They are from Complete Warrior and they paralyze foes, allow for more stunning fist uses, and lower STR by 6 on successful touch attack (no save), respectively. Also a druid should DEFINITELY take Natural spell and all casters should get Eschew Materials, Still Spell, and Silent Spell.

Just My :twocents:

:dragon: :dragon: :dragon: :dragon: :dragon: :dragon:
HARLEYDUDE
11-14-07, 11:40 AM I guess it depends on if you're using retraining or not.

Where are retraining rules listed? I haven't heard about them. does it allow to switch out feats?
HD

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stolide 10-30-07, 09:34 AM	Thats it, I just want to hear what most people think are the best skills and feats. Just give which are best in general, or for a specific character archetype.
Orenmir 10-30-07, 09:53 AM	Generally, I don't think there are any specific skills that are must for every character. It really depends on class, race, ability scores, and flavor. There are several ways to go when choosing skill ranks. 1. Play to your strengths. Get ranks in skills that you already have high ability mods in. 2. Play to your class. A Rogue typically should have many ranks in Hide, Spot, Listen. A Wizard -- Concentration, Spellcraft, Knowledge-Arcana. You get the idea. 3. Go with flavor. I once played a Fighter with a dump for Charisma; but, I still loaded his Intimidate ranks because I felt he should be....well, intimidating. Give us some more detail about your character; especially class, race, scores, and flavor.
Orenmir 10-30-07, 09:56 AM	Sorry, I spoke entirely of skills and not of feats. In general, I think Improved Initiative is a good feat for all classes (maybe excluding a sniper - they almost always get the surprise round). If your DM will allow feat re-training, Toughness is good for everybody (then retrain to Improved Toughness at 4th level, or something else). After that, it really depends on class and role of the character in the party.
Eerongal 10-30-07, 10:05 AM	Generally, I don't think there are any specific skills that are must for every character. It really depends on class, race, ability scores, and flavor. There are several ways to go when choosing skill ranks. 1. Play to your strengths. Get ranks in skills that you already have high ability mods in. 2. Play to your class. A Rogue typically should have many ranks in Hide, Spot, Listen. A Wizard -- Concentration, Spellcraft, Knowledge-Arcana. You get the idea. 3. Go with flavor. I once played a Fighter with a dump for Charisma; but, I still loaded his Intimidate ranks because I felt he should be....well, intimidating. Give us some more detail about your character; especially class, race, scores, and flavor. i agree, there's no real "best" skills/feats that everyone needs. However, some of my favorites: Feats: Adaptive flanker - If you have reach, and an ally threatens an enemy you threaten, you are flanking. Handy for rogues, but all in all just kinda neat in my opinion. Divine feats - I play alot of paladins/clerics, so i usually have turn/rebukes and never use them. With these, i do. Most Reserve feats - May be weak, but adds some longetivity to a caster's day. Power attack - A basic, simple feat. Almost a must have for most melee. It may be basic and simple, but my god is it good. Improved toughness - I like HP. That is all. Diehard - I like fighting to the very end. No falling and laying there dying for me. Skills: Perform(dance - any kind) - 'Nuff said. Every character needs at least 1 or 2 points in this, if only to show off :D Jump - Because if you get it high enough, you can get over anything. Also, falling down everything sucks. Tumble - Just plain handy. Bluff - Who needs fighting skills with this?
Stolide 10-30-07, 10:35 AM	"Generally, I don't think there are any specific skills that are must for every character. It really depends on class, race, ability scores, and flavor." I agree but I said... "Just give which are best in general, or for a specific character archetype." I knew people were going to say that, but I still wanted some sort of feats you like. Basically like Eerongal's post. I really like survival as a skill for any class. It gives you a better chance of getting food and water if you ever run out... (I have)
Orenmir 10-30-07, 11:04 AM	"Just give which are best in general, or..." Sorry I didn't answer up to your expectations.
Stolide 10-30-07, 11:07 AM	Thats okay, I'm sorry if I came off as rude... I actually expected people to post the way you did, so thats why I added in that clause.
HARLEYDUDE 10-30-07, 11:47 AM	Wow I was going to submit a new thread today to ask advice on what 12th level feat i should take. I am playing a 4th level duskblade/1st level fighter/6th level beast heart (dungenscape PrC). I have a 3/day belt of growth. so i do have reach for the big fights. I also have teamwork feats with my animal companions.(owlbear, worg). My question is where is this feat located? what are the prerequits for it? Feats: Adaptive flanker - If you have reach, and an ally threatens an enemy you threaten, you are flanking. Handy for rogues, but all in all just kinda neat in my opinion. thanks HD
Eerongal 10-30-07, 11:52 AM	Wow I was going to submit a new thread today to ask advice on what 12th level feat i should take. I am playing a 4th level duskblade/1st level fighter/6th level beast heart (dungenscape PrC). I have a 3/day belt of growth. so i do have reach for the big fights. I also have teamwork feats with my animal companions.(owlbear, worg). My question is where is this feat located? what are the prerequits for it? thanks HD PHBII. I'm not sure of the exact requirements, off hand. I'm away from book. But the general benefit of the feat is that it allows you to count as being in any square you threaten for the purpose of flanking. For example: C - Character with adaptive flanking A - Ally E - Enemy ___ AE_ __C If character C has adaptive flanking, and standard 5 foot reach, the character counts as standing in the square just above him for flanking purposes, and is thusly flanking with character A. If you have reach (spiked chain anyone?) This is very very helpful.
LSMFT 10-30-07, 12:27 PM	One of the best feat/skill combos I've seen recently is knowledge skills/Knowledge Devotion.
Tordak 10-30-07, 12:46 PM	Most usefull skills for everybody (not everybody get them as class skill though) : Tumble. Jump is a close second. Spot and listen are also incredibly usefull. Most usefull feat for everyone : improved initiative. Diehard is probably equally good, in case of accident. I find fearless destiny (races of destiny) to be an extremely valuable feat for humans and half-humans. For the rest, like it has been said already, it depends on the character you built. Any fighting class (even wizard bent on fighting) can make good use of power attack.
Lokathor 10-30-07, 12:53 PM	Skills: Use Magic Device Tumble Use Magic Device Balance Diplomacy Use Magic Device Feats: Leadership Improved Initiative Power Attack Sudden Extend Spell
LSMFT 10-30-07, 01:14 PM	How does Sudden Extend make your list?
Lokathor 10-30-07, 01:55 PM	Sudden Extend is awesome! You never know when one of the 1rnd/lvl spells your 3rd or 4th level dude has might need to last a few extra rounds. And it's not like you can afford to pay the +1 slot level cost while you're in the low-levels anyways. Lots of other helpful metamagic feats require "any 1 other metamagic", so Sudden Extend can fit the bill. Later on when you want things extended more often, you can pick up a Rod of Extend, or retrain it into the full version.
Orenmir 10-30-07, 02:28 PM	And... Balance? In all my years of playing D&D, I can't remember when I've ever made a balance check.
LSMFT 10-30-07, 02:30 PM	I don't know. I agree with all your other mentions. You do never know when you need another round or two, until you need another round or two. By which time, the spell has already been cast. In most cases, I can really tell which spells I’m going to want to extend, and the +1 adjustment for regular Extend makes a once-per-day version seem wasted. Though, in the case of Sudden Still or Silent, I can really see the “not knowing when you’ll need it” thing making them valuable.
LSMFT 10-30-07, 02:33 PM	And... Balance?That I can see. I routinely use spells like Grease to force Balance checks and allow SA for a party rogue. So, as a player, I like 5 ranks in Balance to protect myself from the same trick. A cheap +2 bonus from synergy is nice for Tumblers too.
Stolide 10-30-07, 03:28 PM	I like to use grease as well. One of my favorite spells. You can also set it on fire... :evillaugh
Lokathor 10-30-07, 04:29 PM	You do never know when you need another round or two, until you need another round or two. By which time, the spell has already been cast. In most cases, I can really tell which spells I’m going to want to extend, and the +1 adjustment for regular Extend makes a once-per-day version seem wasted. But that's the point, even up to level 5, you can't really spare the slot levels to extend a spell normally because the next higher up slot is still way better than an extended anything. I guess it depends on if you're using retraining or not.
LSMFT 10-30-07, 04:43 PM	I guess it depends on if you're using retraining or not.Yeah, I haven't used them much, though they've been around for a while. I like to use grease as well. One of my favorite spells. You can also set it on fire... :evillaughNot without a benevolent DM and a houserule or two.
Stolide 10-31-07, 08:28 AM	Doesn't it coat everything in grease or oil? Everyone one I have played with assumes that it burns.
Tordak 10-31-07, 09:08 AM	It does, but not every 'grease' burns(altough in extreme condition everything 'burns'). Plus it's hard to relate a magic spell to real life and inferred that conjured grease burn, unless you decide so as a DM. If magic was logic, you and I would be throwing fireballs all over the place and flying to work or school, and girls would have see invisibility to dig out those invisible suckers in the locker room.
mkill 10-31-07, 10:03 AM	And... Balance? In all my years of playing D&D, I can't remember when I've ever made a balance check. Really? My poor cleric in the LG campaign had to make a Balance check every darn fricking adventure. I don't know why, but the LG authors seemed to thing Balance checks are a good idea to spice up an adventure. Hint: They are not. It's not fun if the rest of the party is slaughtered by some Hobgoblin Barbarian, while the Fighter and the Cleric (Balance is cross-class skill, nearly no skill points, and heavy armor) lie down drowning in a small stream because they fell from a bridge. In other adventures, my Cleric fell into manure, into a slave pit, and he almost fell into lava, all because of prescribed Balance checks. He is level 3 now.
Baldwinthemerciful 10-31-07, 03:01 PM	And... Balance? In all my years of playing D&D, I can't remember when I've ever made a balance check. The character in my campaign routinely make balance and jump checks. As far as my favorite skills: Open Lock Disable device, tumble jump Feats: Improved Initiative
Stolide 10-31-07, 03:12 PM	Improved initative seems to be a common favorite, Why is that? What makes a bonus to initiative so important. (I know, I just want to hear your views.)
Orenmir 10-31-07, 03:38 PM	Improved initative seems to be a common favorite, Why is that? What makes a bonus to initiative so important. (I know, I just want to hear your views.) Especially at low levels, killing a foe can take as little as one round. If you get to go first, your foe doesn't even get a chance to hit you. In general, it's always best to go first. You essentially get one more attack on your opponent (because odds are: you'll kill him, not the other way around). It's also good for tactics and manuevering on the combat grid. If you want to see where you opponent goes first, you can always stall one round or drink a potion or do some buffing. Let's face it... How often do you win the coin toss and choose to kick? Everybody wants to receive.
Eerongal 10-31-07, 03:51 PM	Let's face it... How often do you win the coin toss and choose to kick? Everybody wants to receive. That depends, we still talking about combat, or football? I want to kick if it's combat :D
LSMFT 10-31-07, 03:53 PM	Especially at low levels, killing a foe can take as little as one round. And on the flip side, you can die in as little as one round at low levels too. Acting first is a big deal.
curtis_ownby 10-31-07, 04:41 PM	Feats: Quick Draw is always good for drawing a dagger to throw when they ar just a little to far away. Combat Exspertise because a litte higher AC is almost always a good thing. Stone Power because a few temerary hit points if always good. Skills: Tumble is good for any one at least five ranks to get the bounus to total defence and fighting defenceivly.
Baldwinthemerciful 10-31-07, 07:26 PM	With improved initiative, i like to take advantage of going at the top of the order when attacking; especially, if I am playing a rogue type character. When playing a rogue type character I then add Weapon Finesse, so I can use my dexterity modifier on attack rolls. I'm playing a 4th level elf rogue right now in one low magic campaign and I'm sporting a 20 Dex. but my BAB is +8 and my improved initiative is a +9. Add in a maxed out move silently, tumble, balance, hide, sleight of hand, open locks, listen, spot and search and he makes for fun character to play.
Operation_Shoestring 10-31-07, 08:26 PM	TUMBLE. For the love of Pelor, TUMBLE. There's so much you can do with it.
plain 11-03-07, 04:58 AM	Agree with tumble.. Especially with a thief acrobat, (bye bye AoO-s... forever... :) )
papawolf2 11-03-07, 09:49 PM	one good combo of skills and feats are for thiefs..... Feat:improved feint alows you to feint then attack in the same round....lots of damage. If you want to be realy horrible you use a spiked chain and get the feats: wirl wind attack, and cleave....later improved cleave. this will alow you to sneak attack all enemies around you. To be even worse there is a feat that alows you to wield a larger chain with even greater range. by epic lvl you will clear battle fields. (especialy if you multiclass with fighter). Another is to take the feats maximize and empower and aply it to magic missile. There is another feat that also increases the lvl of the spell so it does even more damage. Basicaly just deck out magic missile as many ways as possible you never miss! Those are a couple of horrible ideas that just keep on killing. Skills important to these are Bluff, spell craft ,and concentration. Of corse it never hurts to have move silent and hide. Well let me know what you think.
papawolf2 11-03-07, 09:50 PM	one good combo of skills and feats are for thiefs..... Feat:improved feint alows you to feint then attack in the same round....lots of damage. If you want to be realy horrible you use a spiked chain and get the feats: wirl wind attack, and cleave....later improved cleave. this will alow you to sneak attack all enemies around you. To be even worse there is a feat that alows you to wield a larger chain with even greater range. by epic lvl you will clear battle fields. (especialy if you multiclass with fighter). Another is to take the feats maximize and empower and aply it to magic missile. There is another feat that also increases the lvl of the spell so it does even more damage. Basicaly just deck out magic missile as many ways as possible you never miss! Those are a couple of horrible ideas that just keep on killing. Skills important to these are Bluff, spell craft ,and concentration. Of corse it never hurts to have move silent and hide. Well let me know what you think.
papawolf2 11-03-07, 09:50 PM	one good combo of skills and feats are for thiefs..... Feat:improved feint alows you to feint then attack in the same round....lots of damage. If you want to be realy horrible you use a spiked chain and get the feats: wirl wind attack, and cleave....later improved cleave. this will alow you to sneak attack all enemies around you. To be even worse there is a feat that alows you to wield a larger chain with even greater range. by epic lvl you will clear battle fields. (especialy if you multiclass with fighter). Another is to take the feats maximize and empower and aply it to magic missile. There is another feat that also increases the lvl of the spell so it does even more damage. Basicaly just deck out magic missile as many ways as possible you never miss! Those are a couple of horrible ideas that just keep on killing. Skills important to these are Bluff, spell craft ,and concentration. Of corse it never hurts to have move silent and hide. Well let me know what you think.
Arco Versipellis 11-03-07, 11:37 PM	Perform, but I am a musician, so I am biased. Seriously, someting like it or profession (gambler) or even tumble can really make a trip to town fun for the party. Use Magic Device is great skill. Autohypnosis is, too. They can be used to influence combat, but they also carry a lot of flavor with them. Survival is a great one to grab if you can. Improved Initiative is nice in general. Deadly Precision is my favorite rogue feat, and I like Ironskin Chant.
Operation_Shoestring 11-04-07, 04:28 AM	Perform, but I am a musician, so I am biased. Seriously, someting like it or profession (gambler) or even tumble can really make a trip to town fun for the party. Use Magic Device is great skill. Autohypnosis is, too. They can be used to influence combat, but they also carry a lot of flavor with them. Survival is a great one to grab if you can. Improved Initiative is nice in general. Deadly Precision is my favorite rogue feat, and I like Ironskin Chant. We take it or granted that everyone knows that UMD = the god skill. Perform and Knowledge skills are quite awesome if used well. Especially if your DM is not strict about how he interprets Versatile Performer as regarding skill rank requirements for item use if the former case, and if you play Archivist in the latter.
tomersss 11-04-07, 06:03 AM	iron will Lightning Reflexes Great Fortitude these are my best pals.
Oromis_Shurtugal 11-04-07, 06:29 AM	I definitely agree with Improved Init. and Improved Toughness and Diehard, but also take (for monks) : Freezing the lifeblood :monk: , extra stunning :monk: , weakening touch :monk: . They are from Complete Warrior and they paralyze foes, allow for more stunning fist uses, and lower STR by 6 on successful touch attack (no save), respectively. Also a druid should DEFINITELY take Natural spell and all casters should get Eschew Materials, Still Spell, and Silent Spell. Just My :twocents: :dragon: :dragon: :dragon: :dragon: :dragon: :dragon:
HARLEYDUDE 11-14-07, 11:40 AM	I guess it depends on if you're using retraining or not. Where are retraining rules listed? I haven't heard about them. does it allow to switch out feats? HD