Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Part-Human2 07-03-07, 02:25 AM	Can a Druid take a feat which prerequites are met on while in Wild Shape form (for example, Multiattack or Improved Natural Attack)? How about taking a PrC which prerequisites are met only while Wild Shaped (for example War Hulks (MiniHB) have to be Large)? Opinions welcome but written official rules/rulings preferred.
Dnarris 07-03-07, 02:32 AM	Yes, you can take feats that have prereqs that aren't always usuable such as improved natural attack for druids. However, a PrC I would seriously doubt it as there's more to a PrC than a feat.
tui 07-03-07, 04:20 PM	How about taking a PrC which prerequisites are met only while Wild Shaped (for example War Hulks (MiniHB) have to be Large)? CW (page 16) allows you to qualify for prestige classes with items. If you can do that, I think you should definitely be able to do it with Wild Shape... although of course you'd only get the benefits of the PrC while in the form of a creature that qualifies you for the PrC. On the other hand, most DMs I've played with house-rule that items don't qualify you for PrCs... so YMMV.
Dnarris 07-03-07, 05:18 PM	CW (page 16) allows you to qualify for prestige classes with items. If you can do that, I think you should definitely be able to do it with Wild Shape... although of course you'd only get the benefits of the PrC while in the form of a creature that qualifies you for the PrC. On the other hand, most DMs I've played with house-rule that items don't qualify you for PrCs... so YMMV. Dropping entire levels while not wild shaped seems to be a little much....loss of bab, loss of hd, loss of abilities, loss of even attribute points added to your character, because you won't be the same level......I just don't think it works. I mean......imagine you're a level 20 druid....and you have 10 levels of a prestige class you only qualify for while wildshaped.....some spell or effect forces you out of wildshape while your fighting a powerful BBEG your level or higher and then all of a sudden your a level 10 druid ready to be squished. Of course now you got to stop the game and recalulate your spells per day, hit points, bab, what abilities you have now if you already haven't done all that crap. And what if while in your PrC you have 10 wildshapes (just as an example) and you used all 7 of them just switching forms to other large creatures and then you go back to your level 10 form and you lose those extra wildshapes you had, because you don't qualify for them anymore? I just think there's too many mechanics that won't work properly for using wildshape to meet a size prereq for a PrC to actually be something that would be intended by the rules. Losing a feat or two isn't a big deal as long as you can also live with out any feat they might be a prereq before...., but an entire PrC just disappearing when you aren't in a large form seems a little much.
tui 07-03-07, 06:18 PM	Dropping entire levels while not wild shaped seems to be a little much....loss of bab, loss of hd, loss of abilities, loss of even attribute points added to your character, because you won't be the same level......I just don't think it works. Yep, I totally get what you're saying. Would you say the same about qualifying for PrCs with magic items? They can be taken off or even sundered... You'll have to address some of those other questions if you have a spellcaster that gets hit with permanent ability damage or something. It isn't pretty trying to figure out what you can still do, while still in the midst of a combat. If you allow access to a PrC through an item or something like Wild Shape, it would be wise for the player to keep two character sheets -- one with the PrC and one without -- just in case something like what you suggested happens.
was_fired 07-03-07, 06:49 PM	Eh losing a PrC justs means you no longer qualify for it. When that happens you keep your BaB, HD, skills, and saving throws, but lose all special features granted by the class. It's no different than when a paladin becomes evil, a monk becomes chaotic, or a blackguard becomes good.
StevenO 07-03-07, 07:11 PM	Eh losing a PrC justs means you no longer qualify for it. When that happens you keep your BaB, HD, skills, and saving throws, but lose all special features granted by the class. It's no different than when a paladin becomes evil, a monk becomes chaotic, or a blackguard becomes good. Not exactly great examples. A chaotic monk still keeps (almost?) all of its class features but can no longer advance. A lawful Barbarian can no longer rage but that is the only thing it loses while a Bard loses nothing except for advancement. Using a Blackguard is not good because it is also a PrC and becoming "good" would void one if its prereqs just like losing a magic item to qualify. There is nothing wrong with taking feats you can only use part time. As for meeting PrC prereqs, I'll typically require a character to qualify for it without outside help although there are exceptions. If even if you lose you PrC prereqs you always keep the BAB, base Saves, HD/hp, and skills gained; generally you lose everything else unless specified otherwise although many DMs will allow retention of some (even most) features.
Dnarris 07-03-07, 10:19 PM	Yep, I totally get what you're saying. Would you say the same about qualifying for PrCs with magic items? They can be taken off or even sundered... You'll have to address some of those other questions if you have a spellcaster that gets hit with permanent ability damage or something. It isn't pretty trying to figure out what you can still do, while still in the midst of a combat. If you allow access to a PrC through an item or something like Wild Shape, it would be wise for the player to keep two character sheets -- one with the PrC and one without -- just in case something like what you suggested happens. I'd probably be a bit more strict myself when qualifying for PrCs.....I'd have to say that the same would probably go for magic items that let you qualify for PrCs. If you were to keep the level, bab, and all that....I'd definitely say other benefits obtained from that class such as special defenses, abilities, attack, etc. would be lost until the prereq was restored.
The_Apologist 07-04-07, 11:39 AM	You can qualify for feats or PrCs with items, special abilities, etc. Like others have said, you keep your BAB, HD, Saves and Skills but lose all special abilities. And if you're smart, you know that that class is in a precarious position, and you'll keep a copy of your character sheet that has your less-uber version.