Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zephiel7 05-21-07, 12:30 AM	Just wondering whether the "iron heart surge" maneuver can be used to overcome a status effect like sleep, dominate etc., Thanks!
pmurray@bigpond.com 05-21-07, 12:44 AM	Just wondering whether the "iron heart surge" maneuver can be used to overcome a status effect like sleep, dominate etc., Thanks! According to the book, it overcomes a "condition". The condition summary is in the back of the DMG. http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/conditions.htm As for spell effects ... I'd say yeah. Some say that it wouldn't affect dominate, because you wouldn't want to shake it off, but I'd go with the "deep in your heart, you know something is wrong" theory. Mind you - I'm a player who's character has taken this maneuver :D
runestar 05-21-07, 01:00 AM	You must be able to move to initiate a maneuver. I am not sure you are able to move (at least not freely) while dominated or asleep. It should work if it is the other players who are dominated though.:)
Tempest Stormwind 05-21-07, 01:21 AM	Yes, it could. However, the trouble would be gaining the free will to use it and choosing the domination effect. You'd need to be aware that you are dominated and in control of your body (that is, to be able to move) before you could do it. As for sleep, it could also do it... provided you're able to take actions. Which you aren't while you're asleep. Basically, if you're under a condition and you are able to use IHS (that is, you are able to move and able to take standard actions of your own volition), you can end that condition if you are aware of it and use IHS.
Kouk 05-21-07, 01:48 AM	If you are very paranoid you might just continuously use IHS out of combat. That's what I would do, if there were no house rules against it. As written IHS can end any effect that does something to you. Some errata on it would be nice.
Magon 05-21-07, 02:38 AM	As for sleep, it could also do it... provided you're able to take actions. Which you aren't while you're asleep. luicid dreaming?
Tempest Stormwind 05-21-07, 12:20 PM	luicid dreaming? Still unable to move. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_eye_movement#Physiology_of_REM_sle ep) (Look for "atonia". Note that if you're dreaming, you're in REM.)
Deep Blue 9000 05-21-07, 05:39 PM	What about sleepwalking? Can you initiate Iron Heart Surge while sleepwalking?
Vaelan 05-21-07, 07:35 PM	What about sleepwalking? Can you initiate Iron Heart Surge while sleepwalking? I don't know about you, but ridiculous displays of willpower bordering on supernatural aren't something I expect from a sleepwalker.
Deep Blue 9000 05-21-07, 07:41 PM	How about if you're sleepwalking while dominated and your controller orders you to use Iron Heart Surge?
darkeness 05-21-07, 07:44 PM	Q: Dear Sage, What exactly can or can’t iron heart surge (Tome of Battle p68) remove? --Franco A: Instantaneous effects can’t be removed by iron heart surge. However, any effect with a duration of 1 or more rounds, including permanent-duration spells or effects, may be removed by iron heart surge, nor does iron heart surge restore damage or ability drain. Iron heart surge doesn’t replace lost levels (though it would remove any negative levels resulting from a single spell or effect). It would neutralize a single poison coursing through your system, or a single disease that afflicted you. (Bold added for effect) The answers given have all relied on common sense. IF the sage is considered, ahem, knowledgable on such matters then yes, IHS would remove both Domination and sleep. In my games IHS ends any one ongoing effect when used, but my rulings are often at odds with other DM's here.
Tempest Stormwind 05-21-07, 07:52 PM	How about if you're sleepwalking while dominated and your controller orders you to use Iron Heart Surge? Then you'd still choose to end the effect you were aware of -- in this case, the effect he tells you to end. Assuming you had Lucid Dreaming as well and were able to tell you were dreaming, and able to command your body to move. Darkeness: IHS does NOT remove ALL of those. It CAN remove each of them, if it could target them and if you had the actions to do it. Do people forget it only removes one thing or something?
allenchan 05-21-07, 07:58 PM	Why would you remove an affect if it made you happy and content? You dont want it to go away. In fact, you hope they keep doing it every day and you make sure to voluntarily fail your save, cause they're such a nice person and have never done you wrong. How did you never notice this before? You wanted to kill them! That was foolish. Good thing you killed your pesky party members that had been deceiving you all along.
Werebat 05-21-07, 09:05 PM	(Bold added for effect) The answers given have all relied on common sense. IF the sage is considered, ahem, knowledgable on such matters then yes, IHS would remove both Domination and sleep. In my games IHS ends any one ongoing effect when used, but my rulings are often at odds with other DM's here. So it can remove vampirism or lycanthropy, too? What about the condition of "not being Pun-Pun"? - Ron ^*^
Miss_Yersinia 05-21-07, 09:23 PM	(Bold added for effect) The answers given have all relied on common sense. IF the sage is considered, ahem, knowledgable on such matters then yes, IHS would remove both Domination and sleep. But if you're asleep, you cannot take a standard action, which is required for IHS. For domination: Well, it's somewhat DM terrain, but it is definitively applicable, if you're in a Magic Circle, because then you're under a domination effect, but can probably act freely.
navar100 05-21-07, 11:17 PM	So it can remove vampirism or lycanthropy, too? What about the condition of "not being Pun-Pun"? - Ron ^*^ Hi Ron! It's "hadsil"
pmurray@bigpond.com 05-22-07, 12:06 AM	So, apart from hit point loss and ability damage, IHS can basically restore you to perfect health, no matter what. That's ... pretty amazing for an ability that a Warblade can have at level 5 and use at will every second round. Note that it also applies to ability penalties such as from Ray of Enfeeblement.
runestar 05-22-07, 12:23 AM	Yep. Basically, it works on everything it shouldn't, and does not work on stuff it should affect...:rolleyes:
StruckingFuggle 05-22-07, 02:43 AM	Why would you remove an affect if it made you happy and content? You dont want it to go away. In fact, you hope they keep doing it every day and you make sure to voluntarily fail your save, cause they're such a nice person and have never done you wrong. How did you never notice this before? You wanted to kill them! That was foolish. Good thing you killed your pesky party members that had been deceiving you all along. Isn't that more "charm" than "dominate"?
NinjaPenguin 05-22-07, 03:36 AM	Afflicted Lycanthropy is is a disease, albeit a magical one, so, in theory, IHS should be able to remove it. Neat. :)
MOD3004 05-22-07, 03:59 AM	I like that if you can somehow perform Iron Heart Surge while your dead the condition will be removed from you...
LoreKeeper 05-23-07, 03:04 PM	Has there been any definitive verdict by the great masters of FAQ?
darkeness 05-23-07, 03:16 PM	Has there been any definitive verdict by the great masters of FAQ? My earlier posting from the sage is now in FAQ. Take it for what it's worth. IHS is a rather general effect and poorly worded. The question posed to the sage (and in FAQ) was poorly answered IMO.
zephiel7 06-17-07, 01:29 AM	IHS seems rather awesome. Here's another fact! According to maneuver description, IHS can overcome any magical effect targeting you that has a duration of one or more rounds. So that would mean it can also counteract a force cage or wall of force, since a wizard casting that spell on you and your party is technically targeting you. Customer service actually mentions it can shrug away the effects of an antimagic field or a dimension lock spell. Not only for you, but your party too. That's incredibly useful for a third level maneuver.
navar100 06-17-07, 02:59 AM	I suppose this was the intent of the maneuver: If there is some debilitating effect that lasts at least 1 round per level but is not permanent specifically affects you, as opposed to a location being affected and you just happen be there, you can take a standard action to end the effect. Even if said effect normally denies you a standard action, you can still end it and it takes up your standard action for the round. Therefore, if you are suffering from nausea, you can end it. You could not end a Wall of Fire you happen to pass through nor end a Curse.
Zurai 06-17-07, 08:41 AM	Where are people getting the "IHS takes a standard action" stuff from? IHS is an Immediate Action. It can be used at any time (except while flat-footed or helpless) and takes up the swift action for the next round. Not the standard action.
runestar 06-17-07, 09:46 AM	I would like to know where you are getting your swift action clause from... Iron Heart Surge Iron Heart Level: Warblade 3 Prerequisite: One Iron Heart maneuver Initiation Action: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: See text By drawing on your mental strength and physical fortitude, you break free of a debilitating state that might otherwise defeat you. Your fighting spirit, dedication, and training allow you to overcome almost anything to defeat your enemies. When you use this maneuver, select one spell, effect, or other condition currently affecting you and with a duration of 1 or more rounds. That effect ends immediately. You also surge with confidence and vengeance against your enemies, gaining a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls until the end of your next turn.
Ulandorf_TheBlue 06-17-07, 09:51 AM	I figure they got the idea from the ToB since under initiation action of IHS it says "1 standard action".