Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cowjuicer 03-04-08, 06:33 PM	I'm running adventures for two players: a fighter and a sorcerer. Since we have no rogue, the fighter took a rank or two in Disable Device at last level-up and the sorcerer took a couple ranks in UMD. Is this allowed by the rules? If it is, I know only rogues can disable magical traps/use magic items. What am I supposed to do when the party is confronted by a magical trap (assuming I haven't changed it to a mechanical one)? Say , " [to the fighter] Oh, you're not a rogue, so the magic trap sets off in your face even though you rolled a nat 20"? In addition: Taking twenty is not allowed on Disable Device/UMD because of the penalties involved in "rolling" twenty times, correct? I'm pretty sure of this. One more thing: What's "gestalt" mean? My questions are marked in bold.Thank you very much.
steventirey1985 03-04-08, 07:30 PM	Any character can take ranks in Use Magic Device and Disable Device. If they encounter a magical trap and try to disarm it, but don't have the trapfinding ability, just say "You can't find a way to disable it". You can't take 20 on Disable Device because there is a penlty for failure (either springing a trap, or thinking you've disabled it but didn't really.) You also can't take 20 on Use Magic Device because of the penalty for failure (on rolling a natural 1, you can't attemp to activate the item again for 24 hours.) I'm not sure what the the exact meaning of the word is, but gestalt characters are a varient rule in Unearthed Arcana. In short, you take 2 different base classes and level up in them at the same time. So for example if you were a gestalt fighter 1/wizard 1 and leveled up, you would become a fighter 2/wizard 2. There's actually more to it than that, but you would have to look it up, I don't remember it all.
rjsilverthorn 03-04-08, 07:52 PM	Well without trapfinding they can't even find a DC20 or higher trap using the Search skill. Trapfinding Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20. Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it. As for gestalt Gestalt Characters In this high-powered campaign variant, characters essentially take two classes at every level, choosing the best aspects of each. The process is similar to multiclassing, except that characters gain the full benefits of each class at each level. if the two classes you choose have aspects that overlap (such as Hit Dice, attack progression, saves, and class features common to more than one class), you choose the better aspect. The gestalt character retains all aspects that don’t overlap. The gestalt character variant is particularly effective if you have three or fewer players in your group, or if your players enjoy multiclassing and want characters with truly prodigious powers. This variant works only if every PC in the campaign uses it, and it results in complicated characters who may overwhelm newer players with an abundance of options. The full rules are here -> http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm
groveborn 03-04-08, 07:53 PM	I'm running adventures for two players: a fighter and a sorcerer. Since we have no rogue, the fighter took a rank or two in Disable Device at last level-up and the sorcerer took a couple ranks in UMD. Is this allowed by the rules? If it is, I know only rogues can disable magical traps/use magic items. What am I supposed to do when the party is confronted by a magical trap (assuming I haven't changed it to a mechanical one)? Say , " [to the fighter] Oh, you're not a rogue, so the magic trap sets off in your face even though you rolled a nat 20"? In addition: Taking twenty is not allowed on Disable Device/UMD because of the penalties involved in "rolling" twenty times, correct? I'm pretty sure of this. One more thing: What's "gestalt" mean? My questions are marked in bold.Thank you very much. Any character may take any skill at all, but if it's not a class skill then it takes 2 skill points per 1 rank. Without the Trapfinding class ability no character may find through searching any trap above DC 20, nor disable any trap with a DC 25. Magic traps are always at least DC 25. Spell casters can usually find the magic of the magic traps, but can't disarm it per se, though they can certainly prevent it from functioning. Fighters are completely useless here. Natural 20, or 1, are neither automatic successes nor failures for skill checks. Gestalt is, as was mentioned, in Unearthed Arcana. This is for high powered campaigns. You take any 2 classes and take all abilities and skills of the best of each and combine them. If you take a fighter/wizard, you get a high BaB, spell casting, familiar, fighter feats, wizard feats, all the class skills, and the best skill points and saves. I'd strongly suggest picking up a copy of that book, as it's 4.0 lite. It has many really nifty ideas.
DeathlessJuan 03-04-08, 07:54 PM	steventirey1985 basically sums everything up pretty well. Gesalt is taking 2 class and combining them into one, gaining all the abilities of both at the same time. Where abilities overlap, you take the best of the two. Ex Fighter / Barbarian, you take d12 for HD, 4+int skills, bonus fighter feat, fighter's proficiencies, barbarian rage, fast movement and would only get +2 fort save (they overlap) ex2 Fighter / Rogue, d10 HD, 8+int skills, +1 BAB, bonus feat, fighter's prof, sneak attack, trapfinding, +2 fort AND +2 reflex saves For more information, read up on the rules here: Gesalt Characters (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) EDIT: Ninja'ed EDIT2: Anyway, my favorite core-only gesalt combo is Bard/Barbarian, best HD, Best saves, best BAB, alignments match, great skills (not best, but great), cast useful spells when not raging and can wear armor (Mithril Breatsplat) and still cast spells.
Cowjuicer 03-04-08, 08:13 PM	Thank you. In particular, that gestalt thing could be useful as there are only two players (we'd have a fighter/rogue and a sorcerer/cleric, probably.) If it's not possible to implement it in the middle of a campaign, then no biggie-a wand of CLW and a chicken on a string should do the trick.:P
rjsilverthorn 03-04-08, 08:23 PM	Thank you. In particular, that gestalt thing could be useful as there are only two players (we'd have a fighter/rogue and a sorcerer/cleric, probably.) If it's not possible to implement it in the middle of a campaign, then no biggie-a wand of CLW and a chicken on a string should do the trick.:P We did gestalt mid-campaign in one of our games and its not overly disruptive, but I will give fair warning that it can make balancing encounters very difficult.
Cowjuicer 03-04-08, 08:45 PM	We did gestalt mid-campaign in one of our games and its not overly disruptive, but I will give fair warning that it can make balancing encounters very difficult. How so? It seems I would just add another monster of a bit lower CR, like so: 14th-level gestalt characters fighting a Displacer Beast Pack Lord would also have to contend with two Displacer Beast who are part of the pack. Does this work? I ususally run published adventures, so I don't make my own encounters up very often (can be fun, though.) If I do, I try and base them around the minis I have (not a whole lot, around 30, but lots of variety.)
rjsilverthorn 03-04-08, 09:48 PM	Well I imagine it will vary depending on what classes the players pick. You might have less trouble given you only have to players. The main problem our group faces is that our offense far outstrips our defense. We can drop some high CR encounters in the first two rounds, while others are near TPKs, because we don't have the HP, the gear or the saves of a higher level party. I know it frustrates the heck our of our DM because he can't really depend on the CR to judge how a fight will work for us.
Cowjuicer 03-04-08, 11:51 PM	Any character may take any skill at all, but if it's not a class skill then it takes 2 skill points per 1 rank. Without the Trapfinding class ability no character may find through searching any trap above DC 20, nor disable any trap with a DC 25. Magic traps are always at least DC 25. Spell casters can usually find the magic of the magic traps, but can't disarm it per se, though they can certainly prevent it from functioning. Fighters are completely useless here. Natural 20, or 1, are neither automatic successes nor failures for skill checks. Gestalt is, as was mentioned, in Unearthed Arcana. This is for high powered campaigns. You take any 2 classes and take all abilities and skills of the best of each and combine them. If you take a fighter/wizard, you get a high BaB, spell casting, familiar, fighter feats, wizard feats, all the class skills, and the best skill points and saves. I'd strongly suggest picking up a copy of that book, as it's 4.0 lite. It has many really nifty ideas. Well, I wouldn't say that----say he rolls a 17 and has 2 ranks in it and a +1 from his ability modifier? He finds the trap. If he rolls well enough and has enough ranks, again, he could disable a trap. I will remind him that he is unable to disable magic traps or find DC 21+ traps. Thank you. Side note: I use the SRD for the stuff from Unearthed Arcana.
Sildatorak 03-05-08, 12:57 AM	Side note: I may purchase UA, or at least page through it in Barnes and Noble for 30 minutes. What exactly does it deal with? I always thought it was an expansion book for mages. Complete Arcane is the expansion for mages, Unearthed Arcana is variant rules, alternate class features, etc. If you like options, it is worth buying. If you prefer to run everything as close to the core books as you can, you probably will detest it.