Can you use weapon finesse with a 2 handed weapon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can you use weapon finesse with a 2 handed weapon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
StarFyre
08-01-07, 12:42 PM Since shields are allowed with a penalty, what about using a rapier 2 handed instead of 1 handed.

Also, if you have 2 weapon fighting, using 2 weapons but 1 of them has weapon finesse, what would happen then?

Regards,

Sanjay
Grumman
08-01-07, 12:46 PM I'm pretty sure you could wield the rapier 2-handed and still use weapon finesse.
ETA: Looks like I was wrong, then.

Plus, there's the Elven Courtblade, a 2-handed finesse weapon.
SilentOne
08-01-07, 12:47 PM Rapier

You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a rapier sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you. You can’t wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1½ times your Strength bonus to damage.
So really, pointless to do this. You can though.

There are two-handed finessable weapons though (spiked chain, elven courtblade), so it's perfectly fine to finesse with a two-hander.

Two-weapon, so long as you can use weapon finesse you get the benefit. Nothing about TWF says you can no longer do this, so if you've got a shortsword and a longsword, you can finesse the shortsword all you want.

Note: If you have Weapon Finesse, then you have it with all weapons. Only in 3.0 did you need to choose a specific weapon type when you took the feat.
Big_Mac
08-01-07, 12:49 PM Weapon finesse in 3.5 applies to all light weapons, rapier, whip and spiked chain. It does not matter if you are using TWF. So your are using a Spiked shield and a rapier. The rapier + to hit would include you Dex bonus instead of your strength bonus. Your shield would be calculated normally and you would take the normal TWF penalty for not fighting with a light weapon in your off hand.
Spikes01k
08-01-07, 01:09 PM Rapier

You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a rapier sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you. You can’t wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1½ times your Strength bonus to damage.

As far as I know the spike chain and elven court blade are the two best weapons for using two handed and still use Finesse feat.
Nom
08-01-07, 06:31 PM So your Say you are using a Spiked shield and a rapier. The rapier + to hit would include you Dex bonus instead of your strength bonus. Your shield would be calculated normally and you would take the normal TWF penalty for not fighting with a light weapon in your off hand.And you'll suffer the shield's ACP to your attack rolls. Weapon Finesse and heavy shields don't mix well. Light shields and bucklers aren't so bad, since masterwork reduces their ACP to 0.
dknight100
08-01-07, 07:19 PM The general rule is:
you can use weapon finesse on any 'light' weapon, or weapons that specifically state that they can be weapon finessed.
NeueRegel
08-01-07, 09:26 PM I think that it's been decided with some arguement here on the boards that the elven thinblade is both finessable and two-handable. But I'm not trying to open a can of worms here.

Neue
runestar
08-01-07, 10:57 PM I am pretty sure you can wield a rapier 2-handed to benefit from power attack though.:)
Big_Mac
08-02-07, 09:30 AM And you'll suffer the shield's ACP to your attack rolls. Weapon Finesse and heavy shields don't mix well. Light shields and bucklers aren't so bad, since masterwork reduces their ACP to 0.

Why would your suffer ACP if you are proficient with the shield type?
foxtail
08-02-07, 09:41 AM Why would your suffer ACP if you are proficient with the shield type?

Because the Weapon Finesse rules explicitly state so.

With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.

Mithral is your friend, though.
Big_Mac
08-02-07, 09:50 AM Because the Weapon Finesse rules explicitly state so.

Mithral is your friend, though.

Huh! Missed that. Reading comprehension 101 again.
Spikes01k
08-02-07, 02:17 PM I am pretty sure you can wield a rapier 2-handed to benefit from power attack though.:)

Read my post above yours... please. You can not use a rapier two handed... SRD.
KrisTheGreat
08-02-07, 03:24 PM The only weapon that i know of that is two handed and allows the use of the weapon finess is the elven court blade which is in the races of the wild it stats are

1d10 18-20 x2 crit
RobbyPants
08-02-07, 03:58 PM Read my post above yours... please. You can not use a rapier two handed... SRD.
That only states that you can't use it for purposes of adding 1 1/2 x your Str mod. It says nothing about using it two-handed for purposes of adding 2 points of damage per one point of attack sacrificed with Power Attack, which is what Runestar was getting at.

Granted, there's a good chance they didn't intend for that...
Lindwyrm
08-02-07, 10:21 PM I foresee house rule arguements.

I'd say that I'd house rule that any weapon that can't be wielded two handed for 1.5*Str can't be used with power attack. That's a House Rule, though not a RAW reading.
Aryxbez
08-03-07, 11:58 PM Actually you can already powerattack with a rapier 2-handed if you wanted to. As it applies to wielding a weapon in 2 hands in general and is a one-handed weapon thus can powerattack for the +2 for -1 penalty.

In fact there was a thread all about this, which it was my answer that was given to you. So Lindwyrm, your powerattack house rule is an actual RAW as you call it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
StarFyre 08-01-07, 12:42 PM	Since shields are allowed with a penalty, what about using a rapier 2 handed instead of 1 handed. Also, if you have 2 weapon fighting, using 2 weapons but 1 of them has weapon finesse, what would happen then? Regards, Sanjay
Grumman 08-01-07, 12:46 PM	I'm pretty sure you could wield the rapier 2-handed and still use weapon finesse. ETA: Looks like I was wrong, then. Plus, there's the Elven Courtblade, a 2-handed finesse weapon.
SilentOne 08-01-07, 12:47 PM	Rapier You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a rapier sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you. You can’t wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1½ times your Strength bonus to damage. So really, pointless to do this. You can though. There are two-handed finessable weapons though (spiked chain, elven courtblade), so it's perfectly fine to finesse with a two-hander. Two-weapon, so long as you can use weapon finesse you get the benefit. Nothing about TWF says you can no longer do this, so if you've got a shortsword and a longsword, you can finesse the shortsword all you want. Note: If you have Weapon Finesse, then you have it with all weapons. Only in 3.0 did you need to choose a specific weapon type when you took the feat.
Big_Mac 08-01-07, 12:49 PM	Weapon finesse in 3.5 applies to all light weapons, rapier, whip and spiked chain. It does not matter if you are using TWF. So your are using a Spiked shield and a rapier. The rapier + to hit would include you Dex bonus instead of your strength bonus. Your shield would be calculated normally and you would take the normal TWF penalty for not fighting with a light weapon in your off hand.
Spikes01k 08-01-07, 01:09 PM	Rapier You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a rapier sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you. You can’t wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1½ times your Strength bonus to damage. As far as I know the spike chain and elven court blade are the two best weapons for using two handed and still use Finesse feat.
Nom 08-01-07, 06:31 PM	So your Say you are using a Spiked shield and a rapier. The rapier + to hit would include you Dex bonus instead of your strength bonus. Your shield would be calculated normally and you would take the normal TWF penalty for not fighting with a light weapon in your off hand.And you'll suffer the shield's ACP to your attack rolls. Weapon Finesse and heavy shields don't mix well. Light shields and bucklers aren't so bad, since masterwork reduces their ACP to 0.
dknight100 08-01-07, 07:19 PM	The general rule is: you can use weapon finesse on any 'light' weapon, or weapons that specifically state that they can be weapon finessed.
NeueRegel 08-01-07, 09:26 PM	I think that it's been decided with some arguement here on the boards that the elven thinblade is both finessable and two-handable. But I'm not trying to open a can of worms here. Neue
runestar 08-01-07, 10:57 PM	I am pretty sure you can wield a rapier 2-handed to benefit from power attack though.:)
Big_Mac 08-02-07, 09:30 AM	And you'll suffer the shield's ACP to your attack rolls. Weapon Finesse and heavy shields don't mix well. Light shields and bucklers aren't so bad, since masterwork reduces their ACP to 0. Why would your suffer ACP if you are proficient with the shield type?
foxtail 08-02-07, 09:41 AM	Why would your suffer ACP if you are proficient with the shield type? Because the Weapon Finesse rules explicitly state so. With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls. Mithral is your friend, though.
Big_Mac 08-02-07, 09:50 AM	Because the Weapon Finesse rules explicitly state so. Mithral is your friend, though. Huh! Missed that. Reading comprehension 101 again.
Spikes01k 08-02-07, 02:17 PM	I am pretty sure you can wield a rapier 2-handed to benefit from power attack though.:) Read my post above yours... please. You can not use a rapier two handed... SRD.
KrisTheGreat 08-02-07, 03:24 PM	The only weapon that i know of that is two handed and allows the use of the weapon finess is the elven court blade which is in the races of the wild it stats are 1d10 18-20 x2 crit
RobbyPants 08-02-07, 03:58 PM	Read my post above yours... please. You can not use a rapier two handed... SRD. That only states that you can't use it for purposes of adding 1 1/2 x your Str mod. It says nothing about using it two-handed for purposes of adding 2 points of damage per one point of attack sacrificed with Power Attack, which is what Runestar was getting at. Granted, there's a good chance they didn't intend for that...
Lindwyrm 08-02-07, 10:21 PM	I foresee house rule arguements. I'd say that I'd house rule that any weapon that can't be wielded two handed for 1.5*Str can't be used with power attack. That's a House Rule, though not a RAW reading.
Aryxbez 08-03-07, 11:58 PM	Actually you can already powerattack with a rapier 2-handed if you wanted to. As it applies to wielding a weapon in 2 hands in general and is a one-handed weapon thus can powerattack for the +2 for -1 penalty. In fact there was a thread all about this, which it was my answer that was given to you. So Lindwyrm, your powerattack house rule is an actual RAW as you call it.