Charisma penalized Sorcerers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Charisma penalized Sorcerers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ragoftag
02-21-08, 10:07 AM Born to Sorcery
Prerequisite: Racial penalty to Charisma, GM designated race.
Benefit: Despite your racial penalty to Charisma, you do not suffer up to a -2 when factoring for the Class: Sorcerer. This applies to Spells, DCs, etc as mentioned in the Sorcerer Class, but not to skills or other checks.
Special: This may be taken once per Racial Penalty to the charisma modifier.

Has this been done elsewhere or better? Note that this merely removes the hit for purposes of Sorcery only.
foxtail
02-21-08, 11:03 AM Unless you're playing a build that's especially dependant on Charisma-based skills, spellcasting is 99% of the reason for a sorcerer having Charisma in the first place. So, taking this feat would be 99% as good as having 2 extra ability points, which is probably overpowered for a feat accessible at 1st level.
Cartigan
02-21-08, 11:03 AM Well it is both good and bad for the same reason - it removes the ability penalties. Why not make one of these for each class? Some races are supposed to be bad at X, as represented by their penalty. Maybe you could make a feat that lets you using X instead Y to cast for some Z class.
StevenO
02-21-08, 06:51 PM I believe there IS a feat somewhere that treats your primary casting attribute for any one spellcasting class as being +2 higher than it actually is. I think it is a Forgotten Realms feat and only available at first level.
ff6shadow
02-21-08, 08:14 PM Spellcasting Prodigy. Makes your casting stat of choice be considered 2 higher only for the purposes of bonus spells. Player's Guide to Forgotten Realms.

The feat you listed is essentially Spellcasting Prodigy in 3.0, which affected save DC's and bonus Spells.
Sildatorak
02-21-08, 09:12 PM I'm fine with it mostly because of the "GM designated race" bit. I'm assuming you're talking about genasai and tieflings, both of which should make good sorcerers from a flavor standpoint.
StevenO
02-22-08, 12:29 AM Spellcasting Prodigy. Makes your casting stat of choice be considered 2 higher only for the purposes of bonus spells. Player's Guide to Forgotten Realms.

The feat you listed is essentially Spellcasting Prodigy in 3.0, which affected save DC's and bonus Spells.
Sounds right. I only have the Forgotten Realms Campain setting which is 3ed. It seems like everything I hear about the PGFR I dislike as it made some good feats even stronger while weakening other OK ideas.
ragoftag
02-23-08, 12:10 AM ff6shadow Spellcasting Prodigy. Makes your casting stat of choice be considered 2 higher only for the purposes of bonus spells. Player's Guide to Forgotten Realms.

The feat you listed is essentially Spellcasting Prodigy in 3.0, which affected save DC's and bonus Spells.Yes, but Spellcasting Prodigy could be ADDED to any Race (giving them an additional bump), whereas mine would only be allowed to races with a Cha penalty (negating one step of the penalty at the cost of a feat). Spellcasting Prodigy was a broken feat in many ways, but only when a bonus. Allowing it to Cha-shorted races like Orcs makes them viable.
Shaggy_Shaggs
02-23-08, 08:12 AM They aren't inviable without it, they're just not as good as they'd otherwise be.
ff6shadow
02-23-08, 10:49 AM Shaggy is right. I've players a couple of Orc sorcerers. They aren't as good as a race without the Charisma penalty, but they aren't horrible either.
StevenO
02-23-08, 02:10 PM I guess the easy thing is just use the Spellcasting Prodigy with the restrictions (or prereqs if you like) that it can only be taken to make up for a Racial stat penalty. With the PHB class/races that means a Dwarf could take it for Bard or Sorcerer and a Half-Orc could use it for those two or wizard.

Since spellcasting is the only class feature that becomes unavailable without high (15+) stats giving those races who take a hit in that department to make it up with a feat isn't a bad idea.
Johnny_Angel
02-23-08, 03:02 PM It's not exactly the same thing, but I think there's a feat called Spellcasting Prodigy which treats your relevant ability score for one class as being 2 points higher for the purposes of bonus spells and save DCs. You could probably use that and get the same result as long as you don't have a horrible Cha score.
Xeorsos
02-24-08, 04:48 AM Races are designed with a +2 here and a -2 here to keep balance. This also encourages min-maxing (ever notice that none of the PHB races have a bonus to a spellcasting stat?). What I would suggest is this:

Unusual Charisma
Though frail, you are uncommonly charismatic for someone of your race.
Prerequistites: Racial penalty to Charisma, Consitution 10+
Benefit: You gain a +2 racial bonus to your charisma (this stacks with your current racial penalty to a maximum of +0 charisma) but have a racial penalty of -2 to constitution (this stacks with any current racial modifiers to constitution). Sorcerer is now treated as an additional favored class.
Special: Must be taken at 1st level.

Constitution is arguably the second most important stat to any caster- especially one with a d4 hit die. Trading their constitution for charisma is a fair trade (and reduces min-maxing), and they get an additional favored class for their efforts (they *are* giving up a feat, after all).
ragoftag
02-24-08, 10:18 AM Xeorsos, I like your's for the 'flavor' aspect. Numbers of fantasy casters have been weak of health: Elric, Rastalan, etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ragoftag 02-21-08, 10:07 AM	Born to Sorcery Prerequisite: Racial penalty to Charisma, GM designated race. Benefit: Despite your racial penalty to Charisma, you do not suffer up to a -2 when factoring for the Class: Sorcerer. This applies to Spells, DCs, etc as mentioned in the Sorcerer Class, but not to skills or other checks. Special: This may be taken once per Racial Penalty to the charisma modifier. Has this been done elsewhere or better? Note that this merely removes the hit for purposes of Sorcery only.
foxtail 02-21-08, 11:03 AM	Unless you're playing a build that's especially dependant on Charisma-based skills, spellcasting is 99% of the reason for a sorcerer having Charisma in the first place. So, taking this feat would be 99% as good as having 2 extra ability points, which is probably overpowered for a feat accessible at 1st level.
Cartigan 02-21-08, 11:03 AM	Well it is both good and bad for the same reason - it removes the ability penalties. Why not make one of these for each class? Some races are supposed to be bad at X, as represented by their penalty. Maybe you could make a feat that lets you using X instead Y to cast for some Z class.
StevenO 02-21-08, 06:51 PM	I believe there IS a feat somewhere that treats your primary casting attribute for any one spellcasting class as being +2 higher than it actually is. I think it is a Forgotten Realms feat and only available at first level.
ff6shadow 02-21-08, 08:14 PM	Spellcasting Prodigy. Makes your casting stat of choice be considered 2 higher only for the purposes of bonus spells. Player's Guide to Forgotten Realms. The feat you listed is essentially Spellcasting Prodigy in 3.0, which affected save DC's and bonus Spells.
Sildatorak 02-21-08, 09:12 PM	I'm fine with it mostly because of the "GM designated race" bit. I'm assuming you're talking about genasai and tieflings, both of which should make good sorcerers from a flavor standpoint.
StevenO 02-22-08, 12:29 AM	Spellcasting Prodigy. Makes your casting stat of choice be considered 2 higher only for the purposes of bonus spells. Player's Guide to Forgotten Realms. The feat you listed is essentially Spellcasting Prodigy in 3.0, which affected save DC's and bonus Spells. Sounds right. I only have the Forgotten Realms Campain setting which is 3ed. It seems like everything I hear about the PGFR I dislike as it made some good feats even stronger while weakening other OK ideas.
ragoftag 02-23-08, 12:10 AM	ff6shadow Spellcasting Prodigy. Makes your casting stat of choice be considered 2 higher only for the purposes of bonus spells. Player's Guide to Forgotten Realms. The feat you listed is essentially Spellcasting Prodigy in 3.0, which affected save DC's and bonus Spells.Yes, but Spellcasting Prodigy could be ADDED to any Race (giving them an additional bump), whereas mine would only be allowed to races with a Cha penalty (negating one step of the penalty at the cost of a feat). Spellcasting Prodigy was a broken feat in many ways, but only when a bonus. Allowing it to Cha-shorted races like Orcs makes them viable.
Shaggy_Shaggs 02-23-08, 08:12 AM	They aren't inviable without it, they're just not as good as they'd otherwise be.
ff6shadow 02-23-08, 10:49 AM	Shaggy is right. I've players a couple of Orc sorcerers. They aren't as good as a race without the Charisma penalty, but they aren't horrible either.
StevenO 02-23-08, 02:10 PM	I guess the easy thing is just use the Spellcasting Prodigy with the restrictions (or prereqs if you like) that it can only be taken to make up for a Racial stat penalty. With the PHB class/races that means a Dwarf could take it for Bard or Sorcerer and a Half-Orc could use it for those two or wizard. Since spellcasting is the only class feature that becomes unavailable without high (15+) stats giving those races who take a hit in that department to make it up with a feat isn't a bad idea.
Johnny_Angel 02-23-08, 03:02 PM	It's not exactly the same thing, but I think there's a feat called Spellcasting Prodigy which treats your relevant ability score for one class as being 2 points higher for the purposes of bonus spells and save DCs. You could probably use that and get the same result as long as you don't have a horrible Cha score.
Xeorsos 02-24-08, 04:48 AM	Races are designed with a +2 here and a -2 here to keep balance. This also encourages min-maxing (ever notice that none of the PHB races have a bonus to a spellcasting stat?). What I would suggest is this: Unusual Charisma Though frail, you are uncommonly charismatic for someone of your race. Prerequistites: Racial penalty to Charisma, Consitution 10+ Benefit: You gain a +2 racial bonus to your charisma (this stacks with your current racial penalty to a maximum of +0 charisma) but have a racial penalty of -2 to constitution (this stacks with any current racial modifiers to constitution). Sorcerer is now treated as an additional favored class. Special: Must be taken at 1st level. Constitution is arguably the second most important stat to any caster- especially one with a d4 hit die. Trading their constitution for charisma is a fair trade (and reduces min-maxing), and they get an additional favored class for their efforts (they are giving up a feat, after all).
ragoftag 02-24-08, 10:18 AM	Xeorsos, I like your's for the 'flavor' aspect. Numbers of fantasy casters have been weak of health: Elric, Rastalan, etc.