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Adrian_Crane 11-06-07, 08:57 AM

Alright...I'm trying to work out the damage potential on a fairly basic Leap Attacking charger and doing some comparisons. I KNOW I must have screwed up the math somewhere here since I've been up forever, so any help would be great :D First, we have Bob the Bard. While performing at a tavern, he notices one of the patrons making fun of him. Bob decides he's gonna dash into combat, leap across any and all tables, passed-out patrons, and other such obstacles in his way, and deliver a dramatic blow to his antagonist by beating him over the head with his lute. He grips it tightly in both hands and hoists it into the air with a shrill battle cry. Power Attack: Req. 13 STR Leap Attack: Req. Jump 8 (L5, since it's a class skill) So Bob is level 5, at the least. Let's go with that. BAB: +3 STR: 13 Weapon: Lute (treat as 2h simple weapon, with 1d4 Bludgeoning damage and a x2 Crit) Now, let's say he somehow got the Valorous enchantment (Forgotten Realms: Unapproachable East, doubles damage on a charge) on his Lute . Bob thinks of himself as a rather courageous fellow, after all. But how would you calculate damage if he crits? Valorous is x2 (+100%) on a charge, Crit is x2 (+100%), so Valorous plus Crit is +200% = x3 Weapon Lute 1d4, x2Crit Multiplier Str 13 => +1 dmg x1.5 for 2H +1 1d4 + 1 ...throwing caution to the winds, Bob goes for the mightiest blow he can manage. He'll teach this upstart a lesson! Pwr Attk (BAB 3) - 3 to hit + 3 to dmg x2 for 2H +6 1d4 + 7 Leap Attack +100% PA w Jump +6 1d4 + 13 => min of 1 + 13 = 14 unenchanted, 28 Crit or Valorous, 42 Valorous and Crit => avg of 2 + 13 = 15 unenchanted, 30 Crit or Valorous, 45 Valorous and Crit => max of 4 + 13 = 17 unenchanted, 34 Crit or Valorous, 51 Valorous and Crit ...even without the enchantment, 14 damage is enough to make Commoner chunks fly. With it...well, things are just ugly. Bob flees town in a hurry. Now, Bob gains a few levels during his travels. Quite a few. He somehow makes it to level 20. He doesn't boost his STR or invest in a real weapon, though--instead he's just spending feats on Skill Focus (Intimidation) and his gold is all going towards bribing the law to stay off his tail. One night in a distant town, Bob's performance is interrupted by a flying tomato. Deja vu settles in... Str 13 => +1 dmg x1.5 for 1H +1 1d4 + 1 Pwr Attk (BAB 15) - 15 to hit + 15 to dmg x2 for 2H +30 1d4 + 31 Leap Attack +100% PA w Jump +30 1d4 + 61 => min of 1 + 61 = 62, 124 Crit or Valorous, 186 Valorous and Crit => avg of 2 + 61 = 63, 126 Crit or Valorous, 189 Valorous and Crit => max of 4 + 61 = 65, 130 Crit or Valorous, 195 Valorous and Crit The town guards flee in terror at this terrifying display. Not bad, seems Bob is able to do some decent damage in melee...but what about someone more dedicated to the task? Someone like... Ivan the Hurtful Pain-Dealing Angry Man Barbarian BAB: +5 at L5 STR: 18 (maxed starting stat) Weapon:+1 Greatsword (2h 2d6+1, 19-20 x2) Ivan, too, has the Valorous enchantment. Weapon Greatsword 2d6, x2 Crit Multiplier Str 18 => +4 dmg x1.5 for 2H +6 2d6 + 6 Ivan notices some Gnolls across a rock-strewn field. He isn't confident that he'll hit them, so he's gonna go conservative on PA and retain some of his BAB for accuracy. Pwr Attk (BAB 3) - 3 to hit + 3 to dmg x2 for 2H +6 1d4 + 12 Leap Attack +100% PA w Jump +6 1d4 + 18 => min of 1 + 18 = 19 unenchanted, 38 Crit or Valorous, 57 Valorous and Crit => avg of 3 + 18 = 21 unenchanted, 42 Crit or Valorous, 63 Valorous and Crit => max of 6 + 18 = 24 unenchanted, 48 Crit or Valorous, 72 Valorous and Crit Ivan plows into the gnolls, causing havoc. His target crumples beneath his savage assault, and its companions flee in terror. The day is won! Flush with victory, Ivan goes on a gnoll killing spree, all the way to level 20... He puts his points into STR and goes hunting. Hark! There, on the horizen! HERE COMES A NEW CHALLENGER! Str 22 => +6 dmg x1.5 for 2H +9 2d6 + 9 Again, Ivan conserves on his fury just a bit. He still wants to hit the thing. Pwr Attk (BAB 15) - 15 to hit + 15 to dmg x2 for 2H +30 2d6 + 39 Leap Attack +100% PA w Jump +30 2d6 + 69 => min of 1 + 69 = 70, 140 Crit or Valorous, 210 Valorous and Crit => avg of 3 + 69 = 72, 144 Crit or Valorous, 216 Valorous and Crit => max of 6 + 69 = 75, 150 Crit or Valorous, 225 Valorous and Crit Them's some big numbers! But how much did Ivan's superior focus really do for him? ComparisonTrading off identical amounts of BAB for damage, our two characters had the following results: Bob Ivan Difference Min 14 19 5 3 BAB Avg 15 21 6 Hi 17 24 7 Min 62 70 8 15 BAB Avg 63 72 11 Hi 65 75 10 VALOROUS WEAPONS Bob Ivan Difference Min 28 38 10 3 BAB Avg 30 42 12 Hi 34 48 10 Min 124 140 16 15 BAB Avg 126 144 18 Hi 130 150 20 Warning: Math All told, Ivan puts NINE more points into STR (22 vs Bob's 13), invests in a weapon that does 2d6 instead of a paltry 1d4...and the most he has to show for it is an average of about 15 extra points of damage over his adventuring career, at least as far as this tactic is concerned. With an unenchanted weapon, that number drops down to about 9. It takes 12 STR to get +1 dmg, and that's still +1 at x1.5 for 2h weapons. At 14 the bonus is +2 -> +3 with 2h At 16 the bonus is +3 -> +4 At 18 the bonus is +4 -> +6 At 20 the bonus is +5 -> +7 ...but PA and Leap Attack do nothing for the STR bonus to damage. Only critical hits and the Valorous multiplier have any effect on further improving the payback from investing in STR. At 20 STR if Ivan doesn't use a Valorous weapon, he's only getting 7 more damage than someone with 10 STR using an identical 2h weapon. So what about the weapon's base damage? Again, it gets nothing from PA or Leap Attack. An unenchanted weapon hitting for normal damage makes hardly any difference. 1d4 weapon: avg 2, max 4 2d6 weapon: avg 6, max 12. Yay, 4 more dmg on average and 8 more on a max. :pbbbtt: 3d6 weapon: avg 9, max 18. Even this fearsome combo only yields 7 more dmg on average and 14 on a max hit. By level 20 that's not much. So what's Ivan's biggest advantage? Really, it comes down to BAB. Every point is multiplied by 4 due to PA and Leap Attack, and by 8 if using a Valorous weapon, so from level 1 to 5 it's a huge difference... L1: +8 L2: +16 L3: +24 L4: +32 L5: 40 That's 8 pts of damage a level from the +1 BAB/L increase. One level of BAB increase outstrips taking STR from 10 to 20 as far as damage is concerned. It's also equivalent to twice the average increase of going from a 1d4 weapon to a 2d6 one. CONCLUSION Clearly, the power of charging lies with BAB. STR and weapon damage are nearly irrelevant. ...and now off to class. I'll fix my math when I get back. :dancin: