Clap of Thunder [Archive] - Wizards Community

Clap of Thunder [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mystyc
04-01-07, 01:59 PM A series of questions regarding the sonic reserve feats from Complete Mage, page 40.

Are the melee touch attacks granted by the feat considered "armed"?
Since no specific action cost is given for Acidic Splatter, can a character with a high enough BAB make more than one of these ranged touch attacks in a round?
If your hands are already holding the charge of a touch spell, can that spell be discharged when using this ability?
If you make a melee touch attack for another reason, can you also deal the damage from this feat?
If you have levels of monk and have your hands enchanted with the flaming property, do you deal additional damage on these attacks?
Can sneak attack damage be added to these attacks?
HarmonysRage
04-01-07, 02:20 PM A series of questions regarding the sonic reserve feat form Complete Mage, page 40.

Are the melee touch attacks granted by the feat considered "armed"?
Since no specific action cost is given, can a character with a high enough BAB make more than one of these touch attacks in a round?
If your hands are already holding the charge of a touch spell, can that spell be discharged when using this ability?
If you make a melee touch attack for another reason, can you also deal the damage from this feat?
If you have levels of monk and have your hands enchanted with the flaming property, do you deal additional damage on these attacks?
Can sneak attack damage be added to these attacks?

I would rule no. Page 37 states that Reserve Feat abilities are Supernatural abilities. It as an ability, not a weapon.

It specifically states in the feat description that it is a standard action. So no multiple attacks with this per round.

I would rule that you can discharge it together with another touch spell. This is a standard action, but the standard action of a touch spell is it's casting, not the touch attack. Also, in the magic chapter of the PHB to discharge a touch spell it only states that you must touch your target. It does not imply that that cannot be due to touching them for another abilities purpose.

I would rule that you cannot deliver the damage of the flaming property because it is delivered as part of an attack. The flaming property states the extra damage is delivered on a successful hit. The term 'Hit' with the success of an attack is status quo. However no touch ability that I've seen refers to a successful touch attack as a 'hit'.

For the same reason, in the Sneak Attack description in the PHB it states Rogues get their extra damage to attack, and may get it to ranged attack within 30 ft. As it does not say that they get to add their damage to touch attacks I would diallow it. In my experience Wizards have long ruled that RAW are exactly that, and if an ability does not say it can be used with an action type, then it can't be done.
Mystyc
04-01-07, 02:29 PM It specifically states in the feat description that it is a standard action. So no multiple attacks with this per round.
My fault. It's the Acidic Splatter feat that doesn't specify an action, only a ranged touch. That would be the one that could possibly have multiple uses/round.
Aminvelos
04-01-07, 03:02 PM Are the melee touch attacks granted by the feat considered "armed"?
Since no specific action cost is given, can a character with a high enough BAB make more than one of these touch attacks in a round?
If your hands are already holding the charge of a touch spell, can that spell be discharged when using this ability?
If you make a melee touch attack for another reason, can you also deal the damage from this feat?
If you have levels of monk and have your hands enchanted with the flaming property, do you deal additional damage on these attacks?
Can sneak attack damage be added to these attacks?

1. No, not that it matters since activating a reserve feat does not provoke an attack of opportunity.-P36
2. A Specific action cost is given-P37 beginning of the page, it requires a standard action to activate. So multiple attacks is a no no.
3. If your standing right next to him possibly, if your standing more than 5 feet away, no. But, it could just be a dm ruling, he could say that you still just point your finger or will the acid or whatever to hit him and you literally don't touch him.
4. Yes, if the qualifications of a sneak attack are fullfilled. A wizard can sneak attack with a shocking grasp, and an attack is being made do to the melee touch attack/ranged melee touch attack. On all touch attacks you must roll to see if you hit, so this is indeed an attack of some sorts but the attack is only initiated at the cost of a standard action.

Edit- While I suppose you could possibly hold two charges at the same time. One being a supernatural ability and the other a spell, but again this goes to the dm as it never says you can hold a charge of a supernatural ability. If the dm sees them both as spells and one just with the word supernatural ability the answer will be a no.
Mystyc
04-01-07, 04:45 PM 2. A Specific action cost is given-P37 beginning of the page, it requires a standard action to activate. So multiple attacks is a no no.
The overall descriptions says a standard action "unless otherwise specified." Acidic Splatter says "as a ranged touch attack." My question is whether the latter meets the criteria of the former.
unusualsuspect
04-01-07, 05:00 PM The sound may not be described, but at least we finally know what the DAMAGE of one hand clapping. :D
DrMorganes
04-01-07, 05:30 PM Are the melee touch attacks granted by the feat considered "armed"?
Since other spell-based melee touch attacks - such as Shocking Grasp - are considered armed, I'd say yes.

Since no specific action cost is given for Acidic Splatter, can a character with a high enough BAB make more than one of these ranged touch attacks in a round?
Going with no on this one. Use of SLAs is a standard action.

If your hands are already holding the charge of a touch spell, can that spell be discharged when using this ability?
Without the use of an additional feat, only one spell may be held at a time. So, no (I think).

Can sneak attack damage be added to these attacks?[/list][/QUOTE]
Sneak Attack damage applies to nearly all attacks requiring an attack roll. See All About Sneak Attacks in the Rules of the Game archive for more.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mystyc 04-01-07, 01:59 PM	A series of questions regarding the sonic reserve feats from Complete Mage, page 40. Are the melee touch attacks granted by the feat considered "armed"? Since no specific action cost is given for Acidic Splatter, can a character with a high enough BAB make more than one of these ranged touch attacks in a round? If your hands are already holding the charge of a touch spell, can that spell be discharged when using this ability? If you make a melee touch attack for another reason, can you also deal the damage from this feat? If you have levels of monk and have your hands enchanted with the flaming property, do you deal additional damage on these attacks? Can sneak attack damage be added to these attacks?
HarmonysRage 04-01-07, 02:20 PM	A series of questions regarding the sonic reserve feat form Complete Mage, page 40. Are the melee touch attacks granted by the feat considered "armed"? Since no specific action cost is given, can a character with a high enough BAB make more than one of these touch attacks in a round? If your hands are already holding the charge of a touch spell, can that spell be discharged when using this ability? If you make a melee touch attack for another reason, can you also deal the damage from this feat? If you have levels of monk and have your hands enchanted with the flaming property, do you deal additional damage on these attacks? Can sneak attack damage be added to these attacks? I would rule no. Page 37 states that Reserve Feat abilities are Supernatural abilities. It as an ability, not a weapon. It specifically states in the feat description that it is a standard action. So no multiple attacks with this per round. I would rule that you can discharge it together with another touch spell. This is a standard action, but the standard action of a touch spell is it's casting, not the touch attack. Also, in the magic chapter of the PHB to discharge a touch spell it only states that you must touch your target. It does not imply that that cannot be due to touching them for another abilities purpose. I would rule that you cannot deliver the damage of the flaming property because it is delivered as part of an attack. The flaming property states the extra damage is delivered on a successful hit. The term 'Hit' with the success of an attack is status quo. However no touch ability that I've seen refers to a successful touch attack as a 'hit'. For the same reason, in the Sneak Attack description in the PHB it states Rogues get their extra damage to attack, and may get it to ranged attack within 30 ft. As it does not say that they get to add their damage to touch attacks I would diallow it. In my experience Wizards have long ruled that RAW are exactly that, and if an ability does not say it can be used with an action type, then it can't be done.
Mystyc 04-01-07, 02:29 PM	It specifically states in the feat description that it is a standard action. So no multiple attacks with this per round. My fault. It's the Acidic Splatter feat that doesn't specify an action, only a ranged touch. That would be the one that could possibly have multiple uses/round.
Aminvelos 04-01-07, 03:02 PM	Are the melee touch attacks granted by the feat considered "armed"? Since no specific action cost is given, can a character with a high enough BAB make more than one of these touch attacks in a round? If your hands are already holding the charge of a touch spell, can that spell be discharged when using this ability? If you make a melee touch attack for another reason, can you also deal the damage from this feat? If you have levels of monk and have your hands enchanted with the flaming property, do you deal additional damage on these attacks? Can sneak attack damage be added to these attacks? 1. No, not that it matters since activating a reserve feat does not provoke an attack of opportunity.-P36 2. A Specific action cost is given-P37 beginning of the page, it requires a standard action to activate. So multiple attacks is a no no. 3. If your standing right next to him possibly, if your standing more than 5 feet away, no. But, it could just be a dm ruling, he could say that you still just point your finger or will the acid or whatever to hit him and you literally don't touch him. 4. Yes, if the qualifications of a sneak attack are fullfilled. A wizard can sneak attack with a shocking grasp, and an attack is being made do to the melee touch attack/ranged melee touch attack. On all touch attacks you must roll to see if you hit, so this is indeed an attack of some sorts but the attack is only initiated at the cost of a standard action. Edit- While I suppose you could possibly hold two charges at the same time. One being a supernatural ability and the other a spell, but again this goes to the dm as it never says you can hold a charge of a supernatural ability. If the dm sees them both as spells and one just with the word supernatural ability the answer will be a no.
Mystyc 04-01-07, 04:45 PM	2. A Specific action cost is given-P37 beginning of the page, it requires a standard action to activate. So multiple attacks is a no no. The overall descriptions says a standard action "unless otherwise specified." Acidic Splatter says "as a ranged touch attack." My question is whether the latter meets the criteria of the former.
unusualsuspect 04-01-07, 05:00 PM	The sound may not be described, but at least we finally know what the DAMAGE of one hand clapping. :D
DrMorganes 04-01-07, 05:30 PM	Are the melee touch attacks granted by the feat considered "armed"? Since other spell-based melee touch attacks - such as Shocking Grasp - are considered armed, I'd say yes. Since no specific action cost is given for Acidic Splatter, can a character with a high enough BAB make more than one of these ranged touch attacks in a round? Going with no on this one. Use of SLAs is a standard action. If your hands are already holding the charge of a touch spell, can that spell be discharged when using this ability? Without the use of an additional feat, only one spell may be held at a time. So, no (I think). Can sneak attack damage be added to these attacks?[/list][/QUOTE] Sneak Attack damage applies to nearly all attacks requiring an attack roll. See All About Sneak Attacks in the Rules of the Game archive for more.