Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bkdubs123 04-12-08, 03:16 PM	Here is another relatively unclear combo. The Collector of Stories skill trick from complete scoundrel states: When you attempt a trained Knowledge check to identify a creature or to learn its special powers or vulnerabilities, you gain a +5 competence bonus on the check. Knowledge Devotion states: Whenever you fight a creature, you can make a Knowledge check based on its type, as described on page 79 of the Player's Handbook, provided you have at least one rank in the appropriate Knowledge skill. You then receive an insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against that creature for the remainder of the combat. So, rules as written, its very unclear. Knowledge Devotion says nothing about making a "special" check as feats often do, which leads me to believe that when using the feat you make a "normal" check - which would be one to "learn its special powers or vulnerabilities" and thus benefit from the skill trick.
Hsien 04-12-08, 03:24 PM	Knowledge Devotion is simply a knowledge check. Collector of Stories gives a bonus on a trained knowledge check, so you just can't use it if you have no skill points in that particular knowledge type. So, as long as you have skill points in the knowledge area the creature is in, undead = religion, dragon=arcana etc.. then those two combine nicely. Pretty standard set up or Cloistered Cleric build/dip, which gives Knowledge domain as a bonus.
InkBlot 04-12-08, 03:40 PM	Knowledge skills are normally trained-only. Collector Of Stories isn't making an exception, it's just reiterating a standard rule. Also note that you can only use skill tricks once per encounter. So you're only going to get the attack/damage bonus against one creature, if you're really relying on Collector Of Stories to make the DC.
bkdubs123 04-12-08, 03:53 PM	Also note that you can only use skill tricks once per encounter. So you're only going to get the attack/damage bonus against one creature, if you're really relying on Collector Of Stories to make the DC. Forgot about that. One TYPE of creature however. If there are 12 Goblins and I made a Knowledge (local) check using Collector of Stories I would get the corresponding bonus to hit and damage against all of the goblins, not just one. Furthermore, if there were 4 Goblins, 3 Drow Snipers, 2 Hobgoblin Crusaders, and a Human Factotum I'd still get the corresponding bonus to hit and damage against ALL of them since they are all Humanoids.
Hsien 04-12-08, 04:01 PM	Don't have books on me, but from what I recall of Knowledge Devotion. 12 Goblins: Yes; you would get the bonus for all the goblins. Various Humanoids: No, you would have to make seperate checks for each one. Although they are all humanoids they are differnt types and require seperate checks.
bkdubs123 04-12-08, 04:33 PM	From what I can gather one check fits all. Complete Champion makes mention in its example that Alhandra made her Knowledge (Arcana) check at a sufficient value to get +3 versus a black dragon, and later in the encounter a Half-Dragon shows up. The book states that she can add her +3 against the Half-Dragon as well. Since the Knowledge (local) skill makes no distinction itself between various types of creatures (unlike Favored Enemy) it appears that you get the bonus against any and all Humanoids in the encounter.