Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RobbyPants 03-11-07, 04:19 PM	Are you able to use two maneuvers from a tactal feat at the same time? The combination I have in mind specifically is Advancing Blows and Momentum Swing from the Combat Brute feat. The basic idea is this: Advancing Blows works by making a bull rush, and then on your next round, you get a bonus to hit and to damage. Momentum Swing works by making a charge attack, and then getting a bonus on your use of Power Attack on your next turn. So could you do a bull rush as part of a charge on your first round (setting up for both manuevers at the same time), followed by a power attack on the second round, gaining the bonuses from both maneuvers? I didn't see anything in the general description of tactical feats or in Combat Brute specifying that you can only use one maneuver at a time. From what I read, it looks like this could work. Hope that wasn't too confusing. ;)
cwslyclgh 03-11-07, 04:24 PM	from just a cusory glance, it looks like it should work to me.
ShinAkuma2 03-11-07, 07:20 PM	...Can you think of any reason at all why it wouldn't work?
fatal error 03-11-07, 07:30 PM	Well, it could be debatable as to whether you can use Power Attack with a Bull Rush, doesn't Momentum Swing require you to Power Attack for -5 or more on your charge? So, if you can't Power Attack on a Bull Rush you couldn't use Momentum Swing. However, you can most certainly take advantage of multiple benefits of a tactical feat on the same turn in general.
RobbyPants 03-11-07, 07:42 PM	...Can you think of any reason at all why it wouldn't work? I just wasn't sure if there were some limitation of which I hadn't heard... Well, it could be debatable as to whether you can use Power Attack with a Bull Rush, doesn't Momentum Swing require you to Power Attack for -5 or more on your charge? So, if you can't Power Attack on a Bull Rush you couldn't use Momentum Swing. However, you can most certainly take advantage of multiple benefits of a tactical feat on the same turn in general. From my understaning, you don't use Power Attack until the 2nd round (when using Momentum Swing). The bull rush is used on the 1st round to set up for Advancing Blows. The idea is that a bull rush can be used during a charge, and if you could use two manuevers at once, then you could set up for both by charging and bull rushing at once. On the 2nd round, you'd get a bonus to hit and damage from Advancing Blows and you'd get a better return on your Power Attack with Momentum Swing. So, it looks like it works. Cool. Thanks! :D
ClementWillowbreaker 03-11-07, 09:14 PM	Yes, you can use two maneuvers at the same time, unless they explicitly say you can't (like a couple of spell-casting feats that came out recently), as long as you can meet the conditions for them. If you charge and make your attack a bull-rush, the next round you get the Advancing Blows bonuses and, if you PA for -5 or more, your Momentum Swing bonus as well. Mix in Shock Trooper's Directed Bull-rush and Domino Rush to knock the entire enemy formation prone for your Advancing-Momentum Swing for more fun.
kjenks 03-11-07, 09:57 PM	Well, it could be debatable as to whether you can use Power Attack with a Bull Rush... I've seen people debate it, but their arguments fall pretty flat. Bull Rush is a melee attack. It doesn't do damage, so the damage bonus from Power Attack won't apply, but the attack penalty and damage bonus would apply to any attacks of opportunity you take until your next round.
dragynson1 03-11-07, 10:45 PM	I've seen people debate it, but their arguments fall pretty flat. Bull Rush is a melee attack. It doesn't do damage, so the damage bonus from Power Attack won't apply, but the attack penalty and damage bonus would apply to any attacks of opportunity you take until your next round. i would let the power attack apply at a 1 for 1 basis on the strength check, since power attacking is using more strength and not skill. Since bullrush is really weaker at high levels it shouldnt hurt and may even make it a much more viable feat. Complete house rule nothing to do with raw whatsoever. but it does make sense.
ClementWillowbreaker 03-11-07, 11:32 PM	Power Attack is already a great feat, so I wouldn't give that house rule as a default function. Another feat with PA as a prerequisite that allows you to one-for-one increase a Str check on a maneuver (bull rush, trip, breaking with sudden force, etc.) like you were PAing might be a little better. But it is completely moot as far as this thread is concerned, since nothing about any of these tactical feats requires PA to be performed in the same round as a bull rush.
dragynson1 03-11-07, 11:47 PM	Power Attack is already a great feat, so I wouldn't give that house rule as a default function. Another feat with PA as a prerequisite that allows you to one-for-one increase a Str check on a maneuver (bull rush, trip, breaking with sudden force, etc.) like you were PAing might be a little better. But it is completely moot as far as this thread is concerned, since nothing about any of these tactical feats requires PA to be performed in the same round as a bull rush. thats not a bad idea at all