Combat Expertise [Archive] - Wizards Community

Combat Expertise [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hyperfist
05-20-07, 06:17 PM Can Combat Expertise be used with casting spells?? Range Touch spells? Melee touch spells?

Where are there specific rules concerning this. I read the rules..and it says specifically melee attack or full round attack. Is there errata concerning this?
Nom
05-20-07, 06:35 PM It says "When you use the attack action or full attack action in melee ...". While there is some room for debate about what "in melee" means (with a melee weapon? while someone is threatening you? - most people assume the former), it's otherwise pretty clear. When you cast a spell, you aren't using either the attack or full attack action; you're using the cast a spell action. Therefore no CE.

You can use CE when you deliver a held touch spell, or if you cast a free action spell while taking an attack or full attack action.

Oh, and if you literally mean "Where are the CE rules?", try looking under "Feats" in the Player's Handbook. Before you ask, you can combine CE with fighting defensively, but it's rarely worth it.
Muktar
05-20-07, 07:24 PM Range touch spells already use dex to hit. So, CE is not necessary. On melee touch I always assumed you used dex because you are trying to touch them and not go through their defenses. Although, I can't find anything to support that at the moment if someone can clarify
Shadowfax7
05-20-07, 07:27 PM Range touch spells already use dex to hit. So, CE is not necessary. On melee touch I always assumed you used dex because you are trying to touch them and not go through their defenses. Although, I can't find anything to support that at the moment if someone can clarify
You would only use Dex on a melee touch if you had the Weapon Finesse feat, otherwise you would use Str as normal.
StruckingFuggle
05-20-07, 08:22 PM Range touch spells already use dex to hit. So, CE is not necessary.

... :confused:
Muktar
05-20-07, 10:18 PM ... :confused:

Something besides confused would be a little more informative. What are you confused about? The fact that while using a ranged touch spell you use you dex instead of str to hit? or something else?
Pangeon
05-20-07, 10:29 PM Something besides confused would be a little more informative. What are you confused about? The fact that while using a ranged touch spell you use you dex instead of str to hit? or something else?

I think he's confused because you seems to be responding to a question about Weapon Finesse and touch spells... not Combat Expertise, which the OP asked about.
runestar
05-20-07, 10:47 PM Because I cannot tell just what link there is supposed to be between activating CE and using dex to deliver touch attacks. You are suggesting that there is some sort of correlation...:P

Perhaps you are confusing CE with weapon finesse?:confused:
Muktar
05-20-07, 11:17 PM LMFAO . . .I don't know how many times I get the two feats confused
Kouk
05-21-07, 01:58 AM Can Combat Expertise be used with casting spells?? Range Touch spells? Melee touch spells?

Where are there specific rules concerning this. I read the rules..and it says specifically melee attack or full round attack. Is there errata concerning this?

If you are casting a Spell as a standard action, touch or not, you can't use Combat Expertise.

If you have already cast a spell, and are holding the charge and now wish to deliver the melee touch attacks, then you can use Combat Expertise.

Ranged Touch attacks can't be used with Combat Expertise simply because they are a ranged attack.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hyperfist 05-20-07, 06:17 PM	Can Combat Expertise be used with casting spells?? Range Touch spells? Melee touch spells? Where are there specific rules concerning this. I read the rules..and it says specifically melee attack or full round attack. Is there errata concerning this?
Nom 05-20-07, 06:35 PM	It says "When you use the attack action or full attack action in melee ...". While there is some room for debate about what "in melee" means (with a melee weapon? while someone is threatening you? - most people assume the former), it's otherwise pretty clear. When you cast a spell, you aren't using either the attack or full attack action; you're using the cast a spell action. Therefore no CE. You can use CE when you deliver a held touch spell, or if you cast a free action spell while taking an attack or full attack action. Oh, and if you literally mean "Where are the CE rules?", try looking under "Feats" in the Player's Handbook. Before you ask, you can combine CE with fighting defensively, but it's rarely worth it.
Muktar 05-20-07, 07:24 PM	Range touch spells already use dex to hit. So, CE is not necessary. On melee touch I always assumed you used dex because you are trying to touch them and not go through their defenses. Although, I can't find anything to support that at the moment if someone can clarify
Shadowfax7 05-20-07, 07:27 PM	Range touch spells already use dex to hit. So, CE is not necessary. On melee touch I always assumed you used dex because you are trying to touch them and not go through their defenses. Although, I can't find anything to support that at the moment if someone can clarify You would only use Dex on a melee touch if you had the Weapon Finesse feat, otherwise you would use Str as normal.
StruckingFuggle 05-20-07, 08:22 PM	Range touch spells already use dex to hit. So, CE is not necessary. ... :confused:
Muktar 05-20-07, 10:18 PM	... :confused: Something besides confused would be a little more informative. What are you confused about? The fact that while using a ranged touch spell you use you dex instead of str to hit? or something else?
Pangeon 05-20-07, 10:29 PM	Something besides confused would be a little more informative. What are you confused about? The fact that while using a ranged touch spell you use you dex instead of str to hit? or something else? I think he's confused because you seems to be responding to a question about Weapon Finesse and touch spells... not Combat Expertise, which the OP asked about.
runestar 05-20-07, 10:47 PM	Because I cannot tell just what link there is supposed to be between activating CE and using dex to deliver touch attacks. You are suggesting that there is some sort of correlation...:P Perhaps you are confusing CE with weapon finesse?:confused:
Muktar 05-20-07, 11:17 PM	LMFAO . . .I don't know how many times I get the two feats confused
Kouk 05-21-07, 01:58 AM	Can Combat Expertise be used with casting spells?? Range Touch spells? Melee touch spells? Where are there specific rules concerning this. I read the rules..and it says specifically melee attack or full round attack. Is there errata concerning this? If you are casting a Spell as a standard action, touch or not, you can't use Combat Expertise. If you have already cast a spell, and are holding the charge and now wish to deliver the melee touch attacks, then you can use Combat Expertise. Ranged Touch attacks can't be used with Combat Expertise simply because they are a ranged attack.