Complete Mage feat questions.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Complete Mage feat questions.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
claypigeons
06-09-07, 06:22 PM I've been reading through Complete Mage, and I've stumbled upon a couple things that I'd like clarified if possible...

Okay, first, let's assume a character has taken all 10 levels of the Master Specialist class. This lets him cast a conjuration spell with a casting time of 1 standard action as a swift action.

Now we add the feats Rapid Spell and Metamagic School focus. The former reduces casting times on spells. The latter reduces the spell level adjustment on spells of your chosen school.

Now, all combined, would this allow you to cast two Summon Monster spells in a single round, one as a swift action, the other as a standard action? With a highe enough Int for bonus spells, you could do this at the beginning of every combat...

Let's assume again you're a wizard. This time you have Alacritous Cogitation. Let's also assume your DM loves to toss you in jail all the time for no reason. You have Teleport on your spell list, and you're high enough to cast it.

Can you, using the innate wizard ability of preparing Read Magic without a book, be able to spend an hour preparing spells and then just Teleport out? Or do you actually still need your spellbook there to 'officially' prepare spells? Do you need to be holding (or have it on your person) your spellbook to benefit from Alacritous Cogitation?

I'm sure there are other small loopholes/hidden bonuses in there, but these what I've seen at a glance.
KurenaiYami
06-09-07, 06:54 PM To your first question, the two feats are unnecessary. You can cast one as a swift action and then cast another as a standard action without the feats as long as you have the 10 levels as a Master Specialist (Conjurer).

To your second...just prepare your spells and leave all the slots open. Then teleport out.
claypigeons
06-09-07, 07:03 PM To your first question, the two feats are unnecessary. You can cast one as a swift action and then cast another as a standard action without the feats as long as you have the 10 levels as a Master Specialist (Conjurer).

The feats are what make the summon spells take a standard action to cast instead of a one round cast time. You could cast two Melf's Acid Arrows or something per round normally with the master specialist levels... But I was focused on the summoning part, because that's nice, and almost broken.

To your second...just prepare your spells and leave all the slots open. Then teleport out.

So you don't need to have your spell book available to prepare spells then? :D Very nice.
KurenaiYami
06-09-07, 07:14 PM The feats are what make the summon spells take a standard action to cast instead of a one round cast time. You could cast two Melf's Acid Arrows or something per round normally with the master specialist levels... But I was focused on the summoning part, because that's nice, and almost broken.
Oh, missed that part. I'd want to say yes, but I'm unsure.

So you don't need to have your spell book available to prepare spells then? :D Very nice.
If you are not actually preparing spells, but leaving the slots open, then I'd say so.
gotbrain
06-09-07, 08:53 PM 1. yes and no. You could cast a quickened summon monster and a standard action summon monster using that feat combo but only 3 times per day. Doing that in one round would require 2 uses so you couldn't do it every encounter.

2. Acutally why would he even need any other feat but Alacritous Cogitation? Any wizard can prepare slots but without a spell book he can't place any spells in them unless he uses spell mastery or a feat such as mentioned.
Kalarus
06-09-07, 09:03 PM Acutally why would he even need any other feat but Alacritous Cogitation? Any wizard can prepare slots but without a spell book he can't place any spells in them unless he uses spell mastery or a feat such as mentioned.

Because he posted two different questions, the first of which had nothing to do with Alacritous Cogitation ;)

Edit: Incidentally, where is Rapid Spell from? I did not see it in PHBII, Complete Arcane or Complete Mage, the most obvious choices...
Never mind, found it in Complete Divine.

So let's see:
Rapid spell allows you to cast a spell that normally takes a full round to cast, as a standard action instead. The spell takes up 1 spell slot higher than normal.
Master Specialist (Conjuration) lets you cast a standard action Conjuration spell as a swift action instead, three times per day.
Metamagic School Focus lets you reduce the spell slot penalty for using metamagic feats on spells of your school by one, for three spells.

Rapid Spell obviously allows you to cast all summon monster spells as a standard action, but they all use one spell level higher than normal.
Three of your summon monster spells per day may be reduced by one level (effectively negating the penalty of Rapid Spell metamagic feat), allowing you to cast three Summon Monster spells per day as a standard action, if that is what you want.
The Master Specialist class allows you to cast any standard action Conjuration spell as a swift action, three times per day. Any spell under the influence of Rapid Spell qualifies for this criterium, as they are all (regardless of their spell level) standard actions to cast.

You could choose to have your Master Specialist bonus to apply to your three Metamagic School Focus & Rapid Spell metamagicked spells each day. This essentially allows you to cast three Summon Monster spells per day as a swift action.
You could mix the bonuses a bit. You could choose to have Master Specialist effect a Rapid Spell instead, without applying the Metamagic School Focus bonus, casting the Summon Monster spell from a spell slot 1 level higher. You could choose to cast a Summon Monster spell as a standard action, thus not applying the bonus of Master Specialist, but the Summon Monster spell uses a slot 1 spell level higher.

Essentially you can mix and match these bonuses as you please, you have in total 6 bonuses to divide:
3 Metamagic School Focus bonuses, dropping the metamagicked spell level by 1 (non-cumulative, minimum +0)
3 Master Specialist bonuses, allowing you to cast any Conjuration spell of a casting time of a standard action as a swift action.
Everdreaming
06-09-07, 09:16 PM Well, in response to the Alacritous Cogitation feat, you dont even need to prepare read magic, you can just leave a 5th level spellslot open, and then spontaneously cast teleport with it. However, you can only use the feat once per day, so use wisely!
claypigeons
06-10-07, 03:41 PM Well, in response to the Alacritous Cogitation feat, you dont even need to prepare read magic, you can just leave a 5th level spellslot open, and then spontaneously cast teleport with it. However, you can only use the feat once per day, so use wisely!

I was going on the assumption that because the feat specified "...when preparing spells...", it meant you had to actually prepare them. ;) I suppose you could just say you prepare them, and choose to leave all the slots open? Either way, it seems to work like I thought it would.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
claypigeons 06-09-07, 06:22 PM	I've been reading through Complete Mage, and I've stumbled upon a couple things that I'd like clarified if possible... Okay, first, let's assume a character has taken all 10 levels of the Master Specialist class. This lets him cast a conjuration spell with a casting time of 1 standard action as a swift action. Now we add the feats Rapid Spell and Metamagic School focus. The former reduces casting times on spells. The latter reduces the spell level adjustment on spells of your chosen school. Now, all combined, would this allow you to cast two Summon Monster spells in a single round, one as a swift action, the other as a standard action? With a highe enough Int for bonus spells, you could do this at the beginning of every combat... Let's assume again you're a wizard. This time you have Alacritous Cogitation. Let's also assume your DM loves to toss you in jail all the time for no reason. You have Teleport on your spell list, and you're high enough to cast it. Can you, using the innate wizard ability of preparing Read Magic without a book, be able to spend an hour preparing spells and then just Teleport out? Or do you actually still need your spellbook there to 'officially' prepare spells? Do you need to be holding (or have it on your person) your spellbook to benefit from Alacritous Cogitation? I'm sure there are other small loopholes/hidden bonuses in there, but these what I've seen at a glance.
KurenaiYami 06-09-07, 06:54 PM	To your first question, the two feats are unnecessary. You can cast one as a swift action and then cast another as a standard action without the feats as long as you have the 10 levels as a Master Specialist (Conjurer). To your second...just prepare your spells and leave all the slots open. Then teleport out.
claypigeons 06-09-07, 07:03 PM	To your first question, the two feats are unnecessary. You can cast one as a swift action and then cast another as a standard action without the feats as long as you have the 10 levels as a Master Specialist (Conjurer). The feats are what make the summon spells take a standard action to cast instead of a one round cast time. You could cast two Melf's Acid Arrows or something per round normally with the master specialist levels... But I was focused on the summoning part, because that's nice, and almost broken. To your second...just prepare your spells and leave all the slots open. Then teleport out. So you don't need to have your spell book available to prepare spells then? :D Very nice.
KurenaiYami 06-09-07, 07:14 PM	The feats are what make the summon spells take a standard action to cast instead of a one round cast time. You could cast two Melf's Acid Arrows or something per round normally with the master specialist levels... But I was focused on the summoning part, because that's nice, and almost broken. Oh, missed that part. I'd want to say yes, but I'm unsure. So you don't need to have your spell book available to prepare spells then? :D Very nice. If you are not actually preparing spells, but leaving the slots open, then I'd say so.
gotbrain 06-09-07, 08:53 PM	1. yes and no. You could cast a quickened summon monster and a standard action summon monster using that feat combo but only 3 times per day. Doing that in one round would require 2 uses so you couldn't do it every encounter. 2. Acutally why would he even need any other feat but Alacritous Cogitation? Any wizard can prepare slots but without a spell book he can't place any spells in them unless he uses spell mastery or a feat such as mentioned.
Kalarus 06-09-07, 09:03 PM	Acutally why would he even need any other feat but Alacritous Cogitation? Any wizard can prepare slots but without a spell book he can't place any spells in them unless he uses spell mastery or a feat such as mentioned. Because he posted two different questions, the first of which had nothing to do with Alacritous Cogitation ;) Edit: Incidentally, where is Rapid Spell from? I did not see it in PHBII, Complete Arcane or Complete Mage, the most obvious choices... Never mind, found it in Complete Divine. So let's see: Rapid spell allows you to cast a spell that normally takes a full round to cast, as a standard action instead. The spell takes up 1 spell slot higher than normal. Master Specialist (Conjuration) lets you cast a standard action Conjuration spell as a swift action instead, three times per day. Metamagic School Focus lets you reduce the spell slot penalty for using metamagic feats on spells of your school by one, for three spells. Rapid Spell obviously allows you to cast all summon monster spells as a standard action, but they all use one spell level higher than normal. Three of your summon monster spells per day may be reduced by one level (effectively negating the penalty of Rapid Spell metamagic feat), allowing you to cast three Summon Monster spells per day as a standard action, if that is what you want. The Master Specialist class allows you to cast any standard action Conjuration spell as a swift action, three times per day. Any spell under the influence of Rapid Spell qualifies for this criterium, as they are all (regardless of their spell level) standard actions to cast. You could choose to have your Master Specialist bonus to apply to your three Metamagic School Focus & Rapid Spell metamagicked spells each day. This essentially allows you to cast three Summon Monster spells per day as a swift action. You could mix the bonuses a bit. You could choose to have Master Specialist effect a Rapid Spell instead, without applying the Metamagic School Focus bonus, casting the Summon Monster spell from a spell slot 1 level higher. You could choose to cast a Summon Monster spell as a standard action, thus not applying the bonus of Master Specialist, but the Summon Monster spell uses a slot 1 spell level higher. Essentially you can mix and match these bonuses as you please, you have in total 6 bonuses to divide: 3 Metamagic School Focus bonuses, dropping the metamagicked spell level by 1 (non-cumulative, minimum +0) 3 Master Specialist bonuses, allowing you to cast any Conjuration spell of a casting time of a standard action as a swift action.
Everdreaming 06-09-07, 09:16 PM	Well, in response to the Alacritous Cogitation feat, you dont even need to prepare read magic, you can just leave a 5th level spellslot open, and then spontaneously cast teleport with it. However, you can only use the feat once per day, so use wisely!
claypigeons 06-10-07, 03:41 PM	Well, in response to the Alacritous Cogitation feat, you dont even need to prepare read magic, you can just leave a 5th level spellslot open, and then spontaneously cast teleport with it. However, you can only use the feat once per day, so use wisely! I was going on the assumption that because the feat specified "...when preparing spells...", it meant you had to actually prepare them. ;) I suppose you could just say you prepare them, and choose to leave all the slots open? Either way, it seems to work like I thought it would.