Conditional Feats/Abilities and PrCs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Conditional Feats/Abilities and PrCs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
El_Pollo_Del_Mar
02-12-08, 02:28 PM Here's a situation that came up in a game that I played in a while ago.

I was playing a ranger that took ranged combat as his combat style. One of the perks of that was receiving Rapid Shot as a bonus feat, but only when using light or no armor. Now, I wanted to advance in the Order of the Bow Initiate PrC, and asked my GM if my having Rapid Shot (pre-req for PrC) as a conditional class feature (only when in light or no armor) qualified as having the feat. His ruling was no (reason escapes me why) and I had to take Rapid Shot as one of my seven character feats.

So, my question is this: Do class features that are limited (rangers combat abilities, monks increased speed, etc., etc.) count as pre-requisites for other feats/PrCs, or does the character have to qualify themselves for that feat/PrC in some other fashion?

My thought was that they should count as pre-reqs, but if the pre-reqs were ever violated (heavier armor worn, etc.) then the character should lose all benefit from any feats/levels of PrC that rely on having that pre-req. In the case of levels of PrC, the character would retain hit points, skill points, saves, BaB, but have no class features/abilities.

Thoughts?
Prime32
02-12-08, 02:36 PM Yes, "virtual feats" do qualify you. Ask the DM to think for a second about the fact that the Order of the Bow Initiate class is obviously designed for rangers.
Silverthumb
02-12-08, 02:55 PM Almost 100% of the time, when you're given a feat, the description will say that you are given the feat, rather than saying that you're treated as having the feat for purposes of everything but qualifying for prestige classes.
Banatine
02-13-08, 01:12 PM My thought was that they should count as pre-reqs, but if the pre-reqs were ever violated (heavier armor worn, etc.) then the character should lose all benefit from any feats/levels of PrC that rely on having that pre-req. In the case of levels of PrC, the character would retain hit points, skill points, saves, BaB, but have no class features/abilities.

Thoughts?

To the best of my knowledge, you are exactly right. It works in exactly the same way as a paladin/monk/barbarian/whatever who changes their alignment. If you use something, you cannot use anything you gained because of it until you get it back.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
El_Pollo_Del_Mar 02-12-08, 02:28 PM	Here's a situation that came up in a game that I played in a while ago. I was playing a ranger that took ranged combat as his combat style. One of the perks of that was receiving Rapid Shot as a bonus feat, but only when using light or no armor. Now, I wanted to advance in the Order of the Bow Initiate PrC, and asked my GM if my having Rapid Shot (pre-req for PrC) as a conditional class feature (only when in light or no armor) qualified as having the feat. His ruling was no (reason escapes me why) and I had to take Rapid Shot as one of my seven character feats. So, my question is this: Do class features that are limited (rangers combat abilities, monks increased speed, etc., etc.) count as pre-requisites for other feats/PrCs, or does the character have to qualify themselves for that feat/PrC in some other fashion? My thought was that they should count as pre-reqs, but if the pre-reqs were ever violated (heavier armor worn, etc.) then the character should lose all benefit from any feats/levels of PrC that rely on having that pre-req. In the case of levels of PrC, the character would retain hit points, skill points, saves, BaB, but have no class features/abilities. Thoughts?
Prime32 02-12-08, 02:36 PM	Yes, "virtual feats" do qualify you. Ask the DM to think for a second about the fact that the Order of the Bow Initiate class is obviously designed for rangers.
Silverthumb 02-12-08, 02:55 PM	Almost 100% of the time, when you're given a feat, the description will say that you are given the feat, rather than saying that you're treated as having the feat for purposes of everything but qualifying for prestige classes.
Banatine 02-13-08, 01:12 PM	My thought was that they should count as pre-reqs, but if the pre-reqs were ever violated (heavier armor worn, etc.) then the character should lose all benefit from any feats/levels of PrC that rely on having that pre-req. In the case of levels of PrC, the character would retain hit points, skill points, saves, BaB, but have no class features/abilities. Thoughts? To the best of my knowledge, you are exactly right. It works in exactly the same way as a paladin/monk/barbarian/whatever who changes their alignment. If you use something, you cannot use anything you gained because of it until you get it back.