Coup de grace with a bow? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Coup de grace with a bow? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ketone
07-18-07, 01:45 PM Is there a feat that lets you coup de grace with a bow at a range, probably 30 feet?

If there isn't, is this a plausible feat to make up?
Rebel581
07-18-07, 01:47 PM Could you coup de grace with a bow when standing over the person? I always thought you could since I just thought of it as taking a bit of extra time and aiming for the neck.
foxtail
07-18-07, 01:50 PM As long as you're adjacent to the helpless target, you can coup de grace with a missle weapon, no problem; it follows all the same rules for performing it with a melee weapon. No feat required.
Keenath
07-18-07, 01:50 PM Uh, yeah, that's actually covered in the rules, under Coup de Grace, in the combat chapter:

Coup de Grace
As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.

Emphasis mine, of course.

Edit: Bah, foxy beat me to it.
foxtail
07-18-07, 01:56 PM Keenath, by quoting the SRD, brings up an error on my part, however. Whereas I previously said "a missile weapon", the entry specifically states "a bow or crossbow," so apparently there's no coup de gracing with slings and such.
NeueRegel
07-18-07, 03:34 PM This is only slightly on topic, But it IS A TRUE STORY THAT I WATCHED TRANSPIRE.

I worked the nightshift about 15 years ago at a gas station, at a lonely intersection that was right off the highway. So, there was never anything to do. It was a little booth, this is back in the day before every place had a mini-store, so I could lock it and wander off at will. Well, the lot overlooked the hill down to the highway, and all my friends then were the cops, they had nowhere else to park and loiter there-abouts either, so anyway...

On night, a deer got hit by a motorist below us on the highway. (Most of you know how common that is). So anyway, the officers had to wander down for the accident and that, and since it was right there, we all just hopped the fence and walked/shambled down the embankment. (One got on the highway to take the next turn-around place to get back and put flashing lights on, you get the idea).

So anyway, the deer was all messed up, but the damned thing had too many hit points for it's own good. It was thrashing around and all, and the supervisor over the radio told the group of officers to "put it down". I don't quite know who or how it was decided who got to do the deed. But John (yes, real name John, lol) got to do it. So, with his trusty sidearm, he point-blank fired into the deer's forehead. (I mean, movie style, touching).

And "missed".

He tried again. Deer thrashing around, other two officers trying to hold it by stubby antlers. (I'm a city-boy, but I think that means it was a very young buck, maybe 2 years?)

He missed again, cracked an antler.

No more to the story. The third shot didn't miss.

But, the moral of the story is, "coup de grace" is not always as easy as you think.

(Oh, but we made fun of that officer for years after the fact).

Neue
tui
07-19-07, 04:57 PM But, the moral of the story is, "coup de grace" is not always as easy as you think.
You're probably right about that, but "thrashing about" doesn't seem the same as "helpless", so that probably wouldn't qualify as a coup de grace in D&D terms anyway.
Pentar
07-19-07, 05:18 PM I'd allow a ranged Coup de Grace as a feat with Precise Shot as a pre-req.
foxtail
07-19-07, 11:51 PM I'd allow a ranged Coup de Grace as a feat with Precise Shot as a pre-req.

I don't know if I'd go for that. After all, doing it from a range effectively nullifies the big drawback to CdG, which is the attack of opportunity you provoke.
Nathreet
07-20-07, 12:00 AM Ya, CdG from range is too powerful. Plus I would think that you still need to make an attack roll at any range except point blank.

Let's see how to make this:
Target must be large or larger. You are allowed 5' of extra range for every size category above medium (10' max range if large, 15' if huge, etc.).

There, done. Best of all his large buddies still probably get AoO's.
Pentar
07-20-07, 12:54 AM I don't know if I'd go for that. After all, doing it from a range effectively nullifies the big drawback to CdG, which is the attack of opportunity you provoke.

I didn't say you wouldn't draw an AoO, I just said I'd let you do it from 30' away :) Technically, that means you still draw an AoO.

Besides, it is costing you upwards of 2 feats (I don't recall if Precise Shot had a pre-req, but I think Point Blank Shot?) in order to do it. That's not really cheap to do something that doesn't always come up.
foxtail
07-20-07, 06:21 AM I didn't say you wouldn't draw an AoO, I just said I'd let you do it from 30' away :) Technically, that means you still draw an AoO.

Besides, it is costing you upwards of 2 feats (I don't recall if Precise Shot had a pre-req, but I think Point Blank Shot?) in order to do it. That's not really cheap to do something that doesn't always come up.

Firing a bow provokes an AoO in the first place, so there's nothing lost there. And Precise Shot already has an incredibly useful application.
tui
07-20-07, 10:25 AM Firing a bow provokes an AoO in the first place, so there's nothing lost there.
Right, maybe make it take two full rounds to line up your shot rather than one, and it provokes for both rounds... It would be a powerful ability, since it would make it near impossible for allies of the helpless enemy to prevent the CDG. And as Foxtail pointed out, pretty much any archer worth his salt is going to have PBS and Precise Shot anyway, so that as its only limiting factor seems a bit weak.
Pentar
07-20-07, 01:13 PM Firing a bow provokes an AoO in the first place, so there's nothing lost there. And Precise Shot already has an incredibly useful application.

Most of the time it does - there is a Ranger spell now that negates that. :)

Perhaps the reason I don't see a problem with a 30' ranged CDG is because the opportunity is so rare in games that I play, that it's really not a big deal... especially not at the cost of an entire feat.

I'll put it this way; in the campaign(s) I play in and run, this feat would not be an issue.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ketone 07-18-07, 01:45 PM	Is there a feat that lets you coup de grace with a bow at a range, probably 30 feet? If there isn't, is this a plausible feat to make up?
Rebel581 07-18-07, 01:47 PM	Could you coup de grace with a bow when standing over the person? I always thought you could since I just thought of it as taking a bit of extra time and aiming for the neck.
foxtail 07-18-07, 01:50 PM	As long as you're adjacent to the helpless target, you can coup de grace with a missle weapon, no problem; it follows all the same rules for performing it with a melee weapon. No feat required.
Keenath 07-18-07, 01:50 PM	Uh, yeah, that's actually covered in the rules, under Coup de Grace, in the combat chapter: Coup de Grace As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target. Emphasis mine, of course. Edit: Bah, foxy beat me to it.
foxtail 07-18-07, 01:56 PM	Keenath, by quoting the SRD, brings up an error on my part, however. Whereas I previously said "a missile weapon", the entry specifically states "a bow or crossbow," so apparently there's no coup de gracing with slings and such.
NeueRegel 07-18-07, 03:34 PM	This is only slightly on topic, But it IS A TRUE STORY THAT I WATCHED TRANSPIRE. I worked the nightshift about 15 years ago at a gas station, at a lonely intersection that was right off the highway. So, there was never anything to do. It was a little booth, this is back in the day before every place had a mini-store, so I could lock it and wander off at will. Well, the lot overlooked the hill down to the highway, and all my friends then were the cops, they had nowhere else to park and loiter there-abouts either, so anyway... On night, a deer got hit by a motorist below us on the highway. (Most of you know how common that is). So anyway, the officers had to wander down for the accident and that, and since it was right there, we all just hopped the fence and walked/shambled down the embankment. (One got on the highway to take the next turn-around place to get back and put flashing lights on, you get the idea). So anyway, the deer was all messed up, but the damned thing had too many hit points for it's own good. It was thrashing around and all, and the supervisor over the radio told the group of officers to "put it down". I don't quite know who or how it was decided who got to do the deed. But John (yes, real name John, lol) got to do it. So, with his trusty sidearm, he point-blank fired into the deer's forehead. (I mean, movie style, touching). And "missed". He tried again. Deer thrashing around, other two officers trying to hold it by stubby antlers. (I'm a city-boy, but I think that means it was a very young buck, maybe 2 years?) He missed again, cracked an antler. No more to the story. The third shot didn't miss. But, the moral of the story is, "coup de grace" is not always as easy as you think. (Oh, but we made fun of that officer for years after the fact). Neue
tui 07-19-07, 04:57 PM	But, the moral of the story is, "coup de grace" is not always as easy as you think. You're probably right about that, but "thrashing about" doesn't seem the same as "helpless", so that probably wouldn't qualify as a coup de grace in D&D terms anyway.
Pentar 07-19-07, 05:18 PM	I'd allow a ranged Coup de Grace as a feat with Precise Shot as a pre-req.
foxtail 07-19-07, 11:51 PM	I'd allow a ranged Coup de Grace as a feat with Precise Shot as a pre-req. I don't know if I'd go for that. After all, doing it from a range effectively nullifies the big drawback to CdG, which is the attack of opportunity you provoke.
Nathreet 07-20-07, 12:00 AM	Ya, CdG from range is too powerful. Plus I would think that you still need to make an attack roll at any range except point blank. Let's see how to make this: Target must be large or larger. You are allowed 5' of extra range for every size category above medium (10' max range if large, 15' if huge, etc.). There, done. Best of all his large buddies still probably get AoO's.
Pentar 07-20-07, 12:54 AM	I don't know if I'd go for that. After all, doing it from a range effectively nullifies the big drawback to CdG, which is the attack of opportunity you provoke. I didn't say you wouldn't draw an AoO, I just said I'd let you do it from 30' away :) Technically, that means you still draw an AoO. Besides, it is costing you upwards of 2 feats (I don't recall if Precise Shot had a pre-req, but I think Point Blank Shot?) in order to do it. That's not really cheap to do something that doesn't always come up.
foxtail 07-20-07, 06:21 AM	I didn't say you wouldn't draw an AoO, I just said I'd let you do it from 30' away :) Technically, that means you still draw an AoO. Besides, it is costing you upwards of 2 feats (I don't recall if Precise Shot had a pre-req, but I think Point Blank Shot?) in order to do it. That's not really cheap to do something that doesn't always come up. Firing a bow provokes an AoO in the first place, so there's nothing lost there. And Precise Shot already has an incredibly useful application.
tui 07-20-07, 10:25 AM	Firing a bow provokes an AoO in the first place, so there's nothing lost there. Right, maybe make it take two full rounds to line up your shot rather than one, and it provokes for both rounds... It would be a powerful ability, since it would make it near impossible for allies of the helpless enemy to prevent the CDG. And as Foxtail pointed out, pretty much any archer worth his salt is going to have PBS and Precise Shot anyway, so that as its only limiting factor seems a bit weak.
Pentar 07-20-07, 01:13 PM	Firing a bow provokes an AoO in the first place, so there's nothing lost there. And Precise Shot already has an incredibly useful application. Most of the time it does - there is a Ranger spell now that negates that. :) Perhaps the reason I don't see a problem with a 30' ranged CDG is because the opportunity is so rare in games that I play, that it's really not a big deal... especially not at the cost of an entire feat. I'll put it this way; in the campaign(s) I play in and run, this feat would not be an issue.