Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Katana_Uno 03-22-07, 02:01 AM	I have a 6th level Wizard with the Craft Wondrous Item Feat. I've never created a magic item before and I want to create a Cloak of Displacement so I can sell it. According to the DMG you need to be a CL 3rd, have the CWI Feat and be able to cast Displacement. Base price is 24,000gp. Therefore it costs me half, or 12,000gp. And it costs me 960 EXP, 1/25 of 24000 = 960. I currently have 18000 EXP. I believe it will take me 25 days to create and when I'm finished I will have 17,040 EXP and 25,000 gp when I sell it. Am I missing anything? Is there anything else I need to factor when creating a magic item? Seems like the payoff is pretty good. Maybe I should make two and net me a cool 48,000, minus expenses of course.
runestar 03-22-07, 02:15 AM	Am I missing anything? Is there anything else I need to factor when creating a magic item? Seems like the payoff is pretty good. Maybe I should make two and net me a cool 48,000, minus expenses of course. Yes, specifically, you missed out the rule which states that you can only sell an item for half its price. This means that you are unable to make any profit from crafting items to sell at all. For the full explanation as to why the rules are so skewed against you, Q: Why can't a wizard make money with item creation feats? And if he can't, then who is selling them at full price? If a wizard cannot make profit from item creation feats, then what use are those feats, other then making items for himself or the party? --Jacob A: The economy of the D&D world isnšt intended to reflect a real-world economic model, but to provide a playable, balanced game experience that incents characters to go on adventures rather than sit at home in a laboratory. The item creation feats exist for two reasons: 1. To explain how magic items come to exist in the world; and 2. To allow PCs to create items they need but arenšt able to find or purchase. If characters could make a profit crafting and selling magic items, then they donšt need to go on adventures. But D&D isn't a game about running a business, it's a game about exploring dungeons, slaying dragons, and going home with piles of gold and shiny new magic items. Thus, those are the activities its rules are designed to support best.
Red_Rabbit 03-22-07, 09:37 AM	I'd let a player make a profit off selling a magical item if they wanted to, because they put the work in. On the average they are spending about 1-2 weeks in there lab making an item taking them out of the game anyway. So it's not like it can really be carried away unless they find away to pop out an item every day or two. The Rabbit
antsu 03-22-07, 09:40 AM	It depends on your campaign and DM. In some scenarios there might be places where you could sell self made magic items for profit. Daggerford in FR for example is place where is very little magical equipment available at all and therefore prices of such items are very high (double) ...then again it is only a little village and it might be very difficult to find customer who gots enough money and needs the item you are selling. But I think you got the idea, talk to your DM and ask if this is possible in your campaign. Other idea is to sell magic items to your party members with some profit. It is cheaper for your party members than buying from shop and they can get exactly what they are looking for. Just make sure that this is ok with them and I think it should work just fine...
Elthbert 03-22-07, 10:10 AM	I allow my characters to make and sell magical items, but not full market price, becuase they are not setting up a shop and waiting 6 months or a year or 5 years to get thier money, they sold it to a merchents guild for 3/4 market price. And I never found any issue with this from a balance point of view. WHY? because you burn XP when you make magical items, and you burn a lot of them if you are making things worth a lot of money. I mean the cloak this guy is talking about is going to absorb almost 1/18th of his XP. THat is not a little thing. And he only has about 3000 XP he can use to make items at all so if he is planing on making anything beyond the most minor items he is going to have a short stint as a crafter.
Merestil Haye 03-22-07, 10:14 AM	Just a minor point. The Caster Level is wrong. It has a minimum CL of 5 - the minimum necessary to cast Displacement. In general, an adventurer PC will not be in a position to earn full price for items that he makes. However, if he has roleplayed out finding a patron and bargained the price, I can see nothing wrong in letting him enjoy the fruits of his initiative. If, on the other hand, he's made the cloak and now expects to hawk it with a wave of his hand, he will be sadly disappointed.
Elthbert 03-22-07, 10:21 AM	Just a minor point. The Caster Level is wrong. It has a minimum CL of 5 - the minimum necessary to cast Displacement. In general, an adventurer PC will not be in a position to earn full price for items that he makes. However, if he has roleplayed out finding a patron and bargained the price, I can see nothing wrong in letting him enjoy the fruits of his initiative. If, on the other hand, he's made the cloak and now expects to hawk it with a wave of his hand, he will be sadly disappointed. Agreed
Nephlite 03-22-07, 10:55 AM	I have a 6th level Wizard with the Craft Wondrous Item Feat. I've never created a magic item before and I want to create a Cloak of Displacement so I can sell it. According to the DMG you need to be a CL 3rd, have the CWI Feat and be able to cast Displacement. Base price is 24,000gp. Therefore it costs me half, or 12,000gp. And it costs me 960 EXP, 1/25 of 24000 = 960. I currently have 18000 EXP. I believe it will take me 25 days to create and when I'm finished I will have 17,040 EXP and 25,000 gp when I sell it. Am I missing anything? Is there anything else I need to factor when creating a magic item? Seems like the payoff is pretty good. Maybe I should make two and net me a cool 48,000, minus expenses of course. Unless you have your own shop: you can't sell for full price. Only half (sucks but that is the rules).
wonlee76 03-22-07, 04:49 PM	I allow my characters to make and sell magical items, but not full market price, becuase they are not setting up a shop and waiting 6 months or a year or 5 years to get thier money, they sold it to a merchents guild for 3/4 market price. And I never found any issue with this from a balance point of view. WHY? because you burn XP when you make magical items, and you burn a lot of them if you are making things worth a lot of money. I mean the cloak this guy is talking about is going to absorb almost 1/18th of his XP. THat is not a little thing. And he only has about 3000 XP he can use to make items at all so if he is planing on making anything beyond the most minor items he is going to have a short stint as a crafter. I agree with this solution to some degree but not completely. What I do is if a PC wants to profit from their IC feat, they can ask the local guild/shop or whatever as to what the demand is for his abilities and the shop dictates what needs to be made and the PC then goes makes the item and sells it to the shop for 3/4 (instead of the usual 1/2). The profit makes a 1/4 profit since they're more "in tune" with their market place and will only order an item that they believe will sell relatively quickly. PC is happy with his 1/4 profit. The downside is if the request is for an item the PCs can't make due to spell pre-reqs or some other problem.
Elthbert 03-22-07, 10:02 PM	I agree with this solution to some degree but not completely. What I do is if a PC wants to profit from their IC feat, they can ask the local guild/shop or whatever as to what the demand is for his abilities and the shop dictates what needs to be made and the PC then goes makes the item and sells it to the shop for 3/4 (instead of the usual 1/2). The profit makes a 1/4 profit since they're more "in tune" with their market place and will only order an item that they believe will sell relatively quickly. PC is happy with his 1/4 profit. The downside is if the request is for an item the PCs can't make due to spell pre-reqs or some other problem. Well thats how it worked, the items made were of a specified make and such and making contact with people who would handle this kind of stuff was not easy but was an adventure in and of itself. Of course the party could make virtually anything ( my players are convinced that there is no better feat than item creation feats) so that wasn't an issue, but still it is a big investment in XP to make some cash.
Katana_Uno 03-22-07, 11:15 PM	I must have missed the rule that specifies you cannot profit from items you create. Where is this rule? Even so, this explanation seems a bit weak to me. There are so many examples I can imagine that make this rule seem broke. I understand that making your own magic items for half the price and selling them at full price could give a character a large number of magic items, but not being able to sell them for a profit is mind boggling. This seems too convenient of a cop out to keep characters from perhaps having too many magic items or too much precious gold. It seems like the old "Because I said so" rule a DM enforces when he doesn't like what a character is doing or wants to do. As I understand the explanation, if my character was to visit a city and try to sell any items on his possession that he may have created for his own use or just to create and sell, when he's ready to sell them he could only sell them for 1/2 the market value. Yet, if my character was to purchase the same items he was trying to sell, he would have to pay full price. I guess I just don't see this as a "realistic" situation. I can understand that a merchant or middleman would want his/her cut, but in business everyone needs to make a percentage. This percentage could of course be up for negotiation. A character could set up his or her own shop for instance. Get the word out that he's making items for sale. Potential customers could then visit the establishment and request certain items. This rule seems to abolish this or other role playing possibilities because who would want to expend experience points and sell something you're not going to profit from. Didn't mean to rant, I guess I just didn't expect the response I got. I would like to see where that rule is though. Pro and con responses are still welcome.
runestar 03-23-07, 12:32 AM	I provided an explanation from the designer himself. Basically, it was never meant to be realistic. :)
TygerTyger 03-23-07, 08:12 AM	Yup, realism and economics have no place in D&D. :) Just think of the the things that Wizards can do with the Fabricate spell. Any level 9 Wizard would essentially put more engineers and construction crews out of business, not to mention the smiths, bakers, alchemists, etc. While yes it is a "because I said so thing" it is specifically intended to provide game balance. After all, if you could, safe in the bosom of your own home, produce magic items that sell for 100% profit, why would you ever leave? Why would any sane Item Crafter set foot in any perilous situation? They wouldn't. And the game is called Dungeons and Dragons, not Merchants and Accountants after all. Granted, if the character took the time to A character could set up his or her own shop for instance. Get the word out that he's making items for sale. Potential customers could then visit the establishment and request certain items. then I would certainly allow them to sell for a profit. Though if you think about it, it is relatively realistic... just imagine selling something in your home town. Something you made from scratch even. A table and chair set, made out of oak. You are going to have a hard time selling it in one day. Especially if you are asking the same price that the furniture store down the street is asking. They have the warehouse, the supplies, the credibility, and the line of customers who saw their flyer in the mail. You could take it to the pawn shop and sell it for less... which is exactly what the D&D economy system is set up to mimic. Realistic? A little. Balancing? A lot.