Crafting Art Objects? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Crafting Art Objects? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Eros
03-08-07, 09:21 AM Hello Forums

I am having a little trouble with the standard rules for crafting in my game. As I am the DM I have kind of not given it much attention in the past mostly due to the fact that very few players choose to have a skill in craft for anything other than armor.

However with my newest set of players I have two different individuals who have put ranks into crafting (painting) and (sculpting). I am actually all for this, I think it brings a little extra to their characters however in terms of game rules to govern those crafting checks by I feel I am at a lose.

And to be honest the more I look into the crafting skill as a whole it just seems really limited and not fleshed out.

So my question specifically is this, if someone wants to create a “painting” what would be the appropriate craft check for that or any item that is considered to be an “art” item for that matter?

Additionally, I am still a little unclear as to the appropriate amount of time that it takes to craft an item and also once an item has been crafted what determines it’s price if it is say a gem, art object, or something that has a varied view of worth due to peoples personal preference?

Thanks,
-E
mugguod
03-08-07, 11:13 AM The Craft skill indicates that they would do a skill check (d20+skill mod) and earn 1/2 this value in gold pieces for a week of work. I guess that represents painting/sculpting then taking the stuff to a market-place an selling it. This represents your artisan making several, maybe dozens, of minor works and selling enough at the arts/crafts fair to come out ahead.

If they are hired (on commision) to produce a portrait or statue of some rich NPC, then the commision would set a price for the end product. If the commision is over 300gp, split it into 300gp (masterwork component DC=20) and the rest (X-300 ordinary component DC=15). The craft skill description lists how to roll for progress week-by-week until the work of art is complete.

If they want to paint a picture then roll a skill-check to see what an art collector would appraise it for. Or take it to art auction and roll for highest bid. Make-up something:

Suggest: d20+modifier:
1-9: "Its Junk, nobody'll buy it."
10+: "Its ok, somebody will offer the cost of materials +1gp for each point over 10"
15+: "Its pretty good, sell for x2 cost of materials +2gp for each point over 15"
20+: "Masterwork quality, sell for x2 material + 300gp"

If there last work sold for masterwork price, +2 circumstance bonus at next auction?
tarkin
03-08-07, 11:14 AM A. I would call it a profession, not a Craft.

B. High Art is mostly valued based on two things:

1. Scarcity
2. Reputation

The quality of the art is barely looked at. For example, a cartoon drawing done by Picasso is worth more than a full color, high quality art by an unknown recent art school graduate, even if he is superb craftsman.

-------

As your player is just starting out, he gets zero for reputation, and scarcity is low because while it might be his first piece, he is expected to continue to make far more and has a long life ahead of him. He can not make any High Art at all.

3. Low Art is done based on work done. Usually it is paid a set amount that works out to an hourly wage. It is basically no different than any other profession, a hired worker, not an 'artist'.

Use the standard Profession method to determine how much you make as a low artist.

After he has reached 10th level or so, then you can start talking about Reputation and Scarcity. Both will in large part depend on how well he has done adventuring, as this will increase his Reputation as much as the quality of his art and at the same time impress people that he could die anytime, and thus make Scarcity more important. But note, if he did a lot of "low art" then that will also reduce the Scarcity.
Elzaban the Ethereal
03-08-07, 04:31 PM I would call it a profession, not a Craft.
Something is being created by using the skill (a painting or a sculpture, in this case). This is defined as being a Craft skill.

The DMG lists prices (in range form and average) for various Art Objects such as these in the Rewards section (in 3e DMG, I can't recall where it is specifically in 3.5, look at the table of tables). The easiest way to handle it is to have them specify what sort of art object they are going to be making and use the average price listed for that object (or for the closest approximate) as the base price. Since price tends to scale up with complexity, designate the standard 10, 15, 20, 25, ... DC's to the various price categories given (exactness here isn't as essential, as any competent crafter is going to voluntarily increase the DC as high as they can reliably take it). Then have them purchase raw materials equal to 1/3 that average base price and follow standard crafting rules from there.

Using this as a base, it's a trivial modification, to approximate the uncertainty of the art market, to make the selling price of the art piece randomly determined, using the range given in the category of art object chosen.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eros 03-08-07, 09:21 AM	Hello Forums I am having a little trouble with the standard rules for crafting in my game. As I am the DM I have kind of not given it much attention in the past mostly due to the fact that very few players choose to have a skill in craft for anything other than armor. However with my newest set of players I have two different individuals who have put ranks into crafting (painting) and (sculpting). I am actually all for this, I think it brings a little extra to their characters however in terms of game rules to govern those crafting checks by I feel I am at a lose. And to be honest the more I look into the crafting skill as a whole it just seems really limited and not fleshed out. So my question specifically is this, if someone wants to create a “painting” what would be the appropriate craft check for that or any item that is considered to be an “art” item for that matter? Additionally, I am still a little unclear as to the appropriate amount of time that it takes to craft an item and also once an item has been crafted what determines it’s price if it is say a gem, art object, or something that has a varied view of worth due to peoples personal preference? Thanks, -E
mugguod 03-08-07, 11:13 AM	The Craft skill indicates that they would do a skill check (d20+skill mod) and earn 1/2 this value in gold pieces for a week of work. I guess that represents painting/sculpting then taking the stuff to a market-place an selling it. This represents your artisan making several, maybe dozens, of minor works and selling enough at the arts/crafts fair to come out ahead. If they are hired (on commision) to produce a portrait or statue of some rich NPC, then the commision would set a price for the end product. If the commision is over 300gp, split it into 300gp (masterwork component DC=20) and the rest (X-300 ordinary component DC=15). The craft skill description lists how to roll for progress week-by-week until the work of art is complete. If they want to paint a picture then roll a skill-check to see what an art collector would appraise it for. Or take it to art auction and roll for highest bid. Make-up something: Suggest: d20+modifier: 1-9: "Its Junk, nobody'll buy it." 10+: "Its ok, somebody will offer the cost of materials +1gp for each point over 10" 15+: "Its pretty good, sell for x2 cost of materials +2gp for each point over 15" 20+: "Masterwork quality, sell for x2 material + 300gp" If there last work sold for masterwork price, +2 circumstance bonus at next auction?
tarkin 03-08-07, 11:14 AM	A. I would call it a profession, not a Craft. B. High Art is mostly valued based on two things: 1. Scarcity 2. Reputation The quality of the art is barely looked at. For example, a cartoon drawing done by Picasso is worth more than a full color, high quality art by an unknown recent art school graduate, even if he is superb craftsman. ------- As your player is just starting out, he gets zero for reputation, and scarcity is low because while it might be his first piece, he is expected to continue to make far more and has a long life ahead of him. He can not make any High Art at all. 3. Low Art is done based on work done. Usually it is paid a set amount that works out to an hourly wage. It is basically no different than any other profession, a hired worker, not an 'artist'. Use the standard Profession method to determine how much you make as a low artist. After he has reached 10th level or so, then you can start talking about Reputation and Scarcity. Both will in large part depend on how well he has done adventuring, as this will increase his Reputation as much as the quality of his art and at the same time impress people that he could die anytime, and thus make Scarcity more important. But note, if he did a lot of "low art" then that will also reduce the Scarcity.
Elzaban the Ethereal 03-08-07, 04:31 PM	I would call it a profession, not a Craft. Something is being created by using the skill (a painting or a sculpture, in this case). This is defined as being a Craft skill. The DMG lists prices (in range form and average) for various Art Objects such as these in the Rewards section (in 3e DMG, I can't recall where it is specifically in 3.5, look at the table of tables). The easiest way to handle it is to have them specify what sort of art object they are going to be making and use the average price listed for that object (or for the closest approximate) as the base price. Since price tends to scale up with complexity, designate the standard 10, 15, 20, 25, ... DC's to the various price categories given (exactness here isn't as essential, as any competent crafter is going to voluntarily increase the DC as high as they can reliably take it). Then have them purchase raw materials equal to 1/3 that average base price and follow standard crafting rules from there. Using this as a base, it's a trivial modification, to approximate the uncertainty of the art market, to make the selling price of the art piece randomly determined, using the range given in the category of art object chosen.