Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PhantomTrain 03-28-07, 03:23 PM	This, Corwin decided, was not what he had signed up for. All around him, the dragon's fire had baked the rocks, not to mention what it had done to the rest of the dungeon-delving team he was with. The crimson-scaled beast, encrusted in rapidly cooling lava, finished rising up out of the thermal vent where it had been sleeping (up until the moment one of his 'companions' had decided to toss a grenade at it). It roared, a blast of sulfuric air blistering Corwin's skin, even through his leathers. His rapier lay slagged where he had abandoned it. The beast rumbled forward, its tail slapping down between Corwin and the cavern's only exit. The treasure hunter drew the only weapon he still had, a short, curved-bladed dagger, and stepped forward. 'Not what I signed up for at all.' The dagger. Simple, elegant, wildly underpowered for the amount of emphasis put on it. I want to be the best blasted dagger-rogue there is. I want to do this without a magical dagger; I want to be able to be awesome with any dagger I pick up. I know how insane this sounds. Any suggestions, or am I just a suicidal fool?
Rhuxley 03-28-07, 03:30 PM	Nope they kick ass. Compare dagger to short sword. 1d4 vs 1d6 = -1 average damage and you can throw it, and you get +2 sleight of hand with it
fatal error 03-28-07, 03:31 PM	Nope they kick ass. Compare dagger to short sword. 1d4 vs 1d6 = -1 average damage and you can throw it, and you get +2 sleight of hand with it and it can be used in grapple Can't a Shortsword be used in a Grapple? It's Light.
The Not-so-Grim Reaper 03-28-07, 03:33 PM	Have a look at the Invisible Blade PrC (CW), you should find it interesting.
jadehawk 03-28-07, 03:34 PM	So you want to be the best blasted dagger-rogue around? My first suggestion is to keep up with the flavour text. Good on you. But seriously, it's probably a good idea to have a lot of daggers on you, many that others don't notice. Add to your feat repertoire quickdraw, flick of the wrist, and point blank shot and you should be well on your way. Then Prestige Classes are the next step. There are a gaggle of dagger-wielding prestige classes out there to choose (many of which incorporate spellcasting too in case you're interested in multi-classing). But if not there are tons of straight out slit-flickers out there. I would focus my prestige class search on Complete Adventurer and Complete Warrior, and my DND senses suggest to look at PHB II for additional feats.
Rhuxley 03-28-07, 03:34 PM	Can't a Shortsword be used in a Grapple? It's Light. oops, your right, fixed
CantripN 03-28-07, 03:37 PM	Options: Daggerspell Mage (Co. Adv), Invisible Blade (Co. War), Master Thrower (Co. War).
Tim4488 03-28-07, 03:39 PM	Master Thrower and Invisible Blade from CW. If you want spells, the two Spelldagger classes from CAdv. Barbed Dagger from CAdv might be nice too, if you can get your hand on EWP.
PhantomTrain 03-28-07, 03:58 PM	Excellent, all excellent. For RP reasons (a wild concept, I know) I don't want to dilute the character with any spellcasting. Do we think that a level or two of fighter, with the increased BaB and free feats, would offset a slower Sneak Attack progression? Oh, and as to how many daggers do I carry, the Gauntlet of Infinite Blades is what inspired this character, and is the centerpiece of his build. How many daggers? Infinite Daggers. Sweet Christmas, I love that thing.
Tim4488 03-28-07, 04:03 PM	Yeah, a level or two of fighter would work nicely. Four if you want weapon specialization, but that's on you. I have no idea what the RP concept is, two levels of Ranger for either Rapid Shot (throwing) or TWF (daggers are light) might fit, if you so choose.
Hsien 03-28-07, 04:11 PM	Besides what's been mentioned Avenging Executioner; Compl Scoundrel plus that books movements tricks can add extra flair. Throwing: Master Thrower ( trip trick is hard to pass up on as it does damage as well ) and then Whisperknife ( as MT gives the pre-req Quickdraw ) 4 levels of Fighter open Specialization, plus eventually qualify for Melee or Range Mastery. Both add +2 Hit/Dmge and Range Mstry adds 20' to range increment.
CantripN 03-28-07, 04:13 PM	Aye, it would be a good idea, in fact. A build along the lines of Rogue 13/Fighter 2/Unseen Blade 5.
WinterPsionic 03-28-07, 04:18 PM	even though it'll split from the Rogue flavor Kensai could be used to enhance your dedication to the weapon... Otherwise Unseen Blade and/or Master Thrower could certainly help.
The Not-so-Grim Reaper 03-28-07, 04:19 PM	Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 4/Invisible Blade 5/Master Thrower 5 might be a start. From Swashbuckler you get INT bonus to damage and Weapon Finesse, Fighter 4 gives you three extra feats and Weapon Spec. and the PrCs are there for the flavor. The last three levels could be for example Rogue 3 to get +5d6 sneak attack with a dagger, which, combined with IB's feinting abilitites, would be nice. The build even gets four attacks per round. Edit: Unseen Blade? Where's that from?
SolenVlos 03-28-07, 04:24 PM	I think the 2 lvl ranger dip is a good idea. favored enemy is always good (and qualifies for sweet improved favored enemy),track is always good, can fit almost all roles. combat style will suit well. don't know about wild empathy tough. perhaps your DM let's trade it for something else?
RorixBladewing 03-28-07, 04:34 PM	Master Thrower is pretty hard to pass up. Trips with thrown weapons, touch attacks, throwing double the enumber of daggers, sleight of hand to make target flat-footed, etc. It's really a great class if you want to do some dagger chucking.
CantripN 03-28-07, 04:50 PM	Unseen Blade? Where's that from? I meant Invisible Blade, and others got confused by me...
PhantomTrain 03-28-07, 05:03 PM	You guys are making my day. Ok, so Master Thrower feels pretty good as far as flavor and feel go. I want a character that is truly exceptional at making the (allegedly) weakest of weapons a terrifying thing, while keeping the skill points high enough to max out things like bluff and diplomacy. Your collective combat builds are great, though i will probably have only six levels to work with initially (to my old-school gm, characters past 10th level are essentially gods who cannot be accurately played by PCs. Also, I've yet to meet a sane wizard or a non-demonic sorc in his world. Go figure). Ranger is solid, though I'd probably have to take human as a favored enemy to keep in line with my 'Assassin' sub-theme. Despite his quirks about levels, my gm will be happy to let me drop natural empathy for a free feat. Again, go figure. I know this is the wrong forum to ask this under, but it fits so well with what we've already got going on: 1) Does anyone think it fair to use Kensai with daggers in general (since I will be throwing so many of them away every combat) rather than a single dagger in particular? Perhaps the RP justification would be that I was forming a bond with the Gauntlets of Infinite Blades rather than with any one dagger in particular. 2) Are there any magic items that would make 'weapons I hold' more powerful, like the Ring of Adamantine Touch (MIC)? Continue your ridiculous rockin'ness.
SolenVlos 03-28-07, 05:17 PM	then I really think you should go for ranger. IFE gives you extra +3 (better than weapon espec.) agains favored, total of +5 agains humans, and every assasin must have track. also, the extra feat is a boon.
stuporhero93 03-28-07, 05:32 PM	I would recomend using a strategy similar to the following: Throw as many daggers as you can in one round. Master thrower and fighter BAB should help here. When the enemy gets close, feint and then uterrly destroy them with damage!! If they are still alive, tumble behind and do another devasting round of blows. Or you can retreat and throw a couple of more blades leaving the now mortally wounded enemy to the rest of your party.
WinterPsionic 03-28-07, 10:42 PM	I meant Invisible Blade, and others got confused by me... YAAAA:rant: I went and edited my post thinking I had had the name wrong, I knew it didn't sound right. Shoulda checked the lists afterall.:P
Nifft 03-28-07, 10:56 PM	Daggers are awesome. - Two types of damage (slashing or piercing) -- great for DR, and you can do slashing damage at range, which is rare. - Throwable, finessable, TWF'able -- with Quickdraw, you could be throwing a lot of them. - They're common, and Wizards can use them, so you should find some good magical ones. For classes: - Halfling Paragon is actually not sucky for a thrown weapons guy. +2 damage at 2nd level, +2 Dex at 3rd. - Four levels of Fighter is necessary (or six Warblade), because you want Weapon Spec (Daggers) so you qualify for Ranged Weapon Mastery and Melee Weapon Mastery. If those two don't stack, consider just taking Ranged Weapon Mastery... the extra range when added to Far Shot is nice. - Rogue is great for entry into Invisible Blade. - What's that feat which allows you to Power Attack at range with thrown weapons? Brutal Throw or something? In Complete Warrior, maybe? Cheers, -- N
LittleCarp04 03-29-07, 01:11 AM	I would say another AWESOME thing to do is just have TONS of daggers on you, not literally tons, but quite a few, get Vow of Poverty, say that you disdain the more complex material things, and beleive that your daggers are more than enough to protect the poorer people, and basically makes every one of your daggers a magical weapon (+2 at lvl 10) in your hands, and with quick draw you can draw them all for free each level, you also get quite a few bonus exalted feats (like one every 2 lvls).
PhantomTrain 03-29-07, 10:00 AM	I would say another AWESOME thing to do is just have TONS of daggers on you, not literally tons, but quite a few, get Vow of Poverty, say that you disdain the more complex material things, and beleive that your daggers are more than enough to protect the poorer people, and basically makes every one of your daggers a magical weapon (+2 at lvl 10) in your hands, and with quick draw you can draw them all for free each level, you also get quite a few bonus exalted feats (like one every 2 lvls). My distain for VoP abuse aside, there are two problems with this suggestion, at least as far as my character goes. 1) He's a treasure hunter. Presumably, most treasure hunters think wealth is a pretty good thing. 2) Gauntlet of Infinite Blades. It's what is going to make this character 'go', and clearly violates the Vow.
Aracor 03-29-07, 11:29 AM	A ring of blinking will help a LOT with making sure your sneak attacks get off. I made a similar character, but he was made before complete warrior so he didn't have invisible blade. Straight rogue, he made it up to level 27. But instead of a gauntlet, I put together a bandolier that was sort of based on the returning enchantment; with 'gem keystones' that I could attach to weapons stored, then when I throw them, they'd return to the bandolier either at the end of the round, or something prevented that, a command word would also return them. Incidentally, wounding daggers make the day unpleasant for any number of evil creatures, up to and including balors. By the way, make sure you have evasion if you're fighting groups of balors, and then watch the fireworks as they blow each other up. :D
Joesph_kurr 03-29-07, 12:31 PM	try out some ToB stuff for extra damage and stuff Warblade or Sword Sage sound like good classes for you and dagger is one of the shadow hand weapons also dimond mind and iron heart sound like they would be usefull
ninja1 03-29-07, 01:59 PM	1) Does anyone think it fair to use Kensai with daggers in general (since I will be throwing so many of them away every combat) rather than a single dagger in particular? Perhaps the RP justification would be that I was forming a bond with the Gauntlets of Infinite Blades rather than with any one dagger in particular. I would say no because the flavor text of the Kensai is very specific about the dedication to the one weapon... however, check out the Prc Bloodstorm Blade... I recall hearing that it has a class ability similar to the "Returning" weapon special ability.. and an improved version which allows the weapon to return at the end of each attack, allowing iterative attacks (like quickdraw with an ample supply). 2) Are there any magic items that would make 'weapons I hold' more powerful, like the Ring of Adamantine Touch (MIC)? One of the Faerun books has a neat set of gauntlets that treat all weapons as Magic and Silver for beating DR. (I think it was reprinted in the Magic Item Compendium.) -What's that feat which allows you to Power Attack at range with thrown weapons? Brutal Throw or something? In Complete Warrior, maybe? Brutal Throw is +strength to hit instead of +dex. Power Throw is the Power Attack version for throwing IIRC. (was it complete warrior or adventurer?)
Naderion 03-29-07, 03:27 PM	- Two types of damage (slashing or piercing) -- great for DR, and you can do slashing damage at range, which is rare. I wouldn't allow that. When throwing a dagger, the blade pierces into the target like a spear-tip, not with the edges of the blade like a throwing axe would do.
Nat_20 03-29-07, 04:01 PM	If hes so good a throwing daggers, I would assume that he would be able to throw them with a flick of the wrist to get them to spin at the target and do slashing Dmg, that dosnt sound game breaking, its cool character flare and i need to mention, I LIKE the sound of this character... good luck with pulling it off
Vharuck 03-29-07, 04:13 PM	Remember, you only need to pick up Point Blank Shot and maybe Far Shot from the ranged feat tree, as Two Weapon Fighting can be used with throwing weapons. And since daggers are both throwing and melee weapons, one in each hand is good no matter where your enemies are. Also, unless such an item already exists, work with your DM to create a belt pouch or similar magic item that produces a dagger at will (but to keep the costs down and the item non-broken, make the magically made daggers last only for a set amount of time; that way you can throw as many as you want while saving your two permanent magical daggers for melee or really important throws).
PhantomTrain 03-29-07, 04:50 PM	I wouldn't allow that. When throwing a dagger, the blade pierces into the target like a spear-tip, not with the edges of the blade like a throwing axe would do. The RAW says nothing about the damage type being conditional. Heck, I'd make a case for a skilled thrower being able to throw a dagger for bludgeoning damage, seeing as how there's a convienient flat surface on the opposite end from the weapon tip. And yes, I can make a thrown blade hit with tip, edge, or pommel in real life. Takes practice, but I'm probably a level two or three rogue by now. :D
Dissont 03-29-07, 07:24 PM	I had a character like this, it was the BBEG for a game i ran once. She was a 10 Paladin/5 Master Thrower/ 5 StormLord. It was one of the more fun BBEG's i've ever created..
liquidhypnotic 04-27-07, 01:56 AM	Ooh, ooh, I have an idea! (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades) Maybe, um, maybe, something, like, like, an item. (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades) A magic item. That like, makes daggers. (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades) A Dagger... Printer. Of... Infinitude. I don't know if such an item exists, (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades) but if it doesn't, (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades), then maybe you and your DM could houserule one up (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades). Except that'd probably be broken, and no one would enjoy the game after that (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades). But anyway, yeah, badass. I dig it.
Perseus_Stoned 04-27-07, 02:06 AM	Ooh, ooh, I have an idea! (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades) Maybe, um, maybe, something, like, like, an item. (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades) A magic item. That like, makes daggers. (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades) A Dagger... Printer. Of... Infinitude. I don't know if such an item exists, (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades) but if it doesn't, (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades), then maybe you and your DM could houserule one up (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades). Except that'd probably be broken, and no one would enjoy the game after that (Gauntlet of Infinite Blades). But anyway, yeah, badass. I dig it. Oh, and as to how many daggers do I carry, the Gauntlet of Infinite Blades is what inspired this character, and is the centerpiece of his build. Forgive me if your post was meant to actually criticize such an item; if it was would you mind indulging us as to why you feel its broken?
Shadowhowler 04-27-07, 05:21 PM	I would say first pick a race with favored class rogue or be a human. Get your first levels as combinations in Rogue/Fighter/Ranger/Warblade/Swordsage... there are diffrent groups to go with here, but Rogue and Swordsage are key, and fighter is useful for feats and BAD and HP. Swashbuckler also works, as someone above mentioned, and works well, depending on the route you take. Take levels of Swashbuckler/Rogue... then some swordsage. Do it right and you will be able to have a character that uses Dex to hit (finesse) ands Int to damage (swashbuckler) adds dex to damage (swordsage) and gives you stances that either do extra SA damage (assassins stance) or allow you to flank and get SA damage much more simply (Island of blades). Consider that you have an avarage str (10) But an Int of 16 and a dex of 18. With the above selections you will have your dex +4 to hit, you'll be adding +7 to damage from your dex and Int. Not bad. Take Darring outlaw (from CS) and advance in the Swashbuckler instead of the Rogue, get more SA damage but better hp and BAB. After you got levels in those, PrC with Invisable Blade (which gives you all kinds of neat dagger tricks and contenues your SA damage progression just with daggers) or Master Thrower... or Whsiperknife if your a halfling... or both! There are a lot of ways to make a very effective Dagger fighter.
Threefists 04-27-07, 07:52 PM	*Hands the OP a +2 Flaming Burst Bane:Giant Dagger to deal with the Trolls* It hasn't been mentioned yet, but the Drow Long Knife from Races of Eberron has a 1d6 damage die instead of a 1d4, but otherwise it is exactly the same as a standard dagger except you do not gain the sleight of hand bonus, and it may be used with any Weapon Focus/Specialization you have for the humble dagger. Simply alter the name and call it the [Insert appropraite fluff here] Long Dagger and you're set. Another potential dagger for you to use is the Jambiya from the Races of Faerun. It deals less damage than a standard dagger, but has a greater critical range. Sadly, the dagger cannot be thrown and there is not text on whether it adds a bonus to sleight of hand. Anyway, hope this helps!
RikuKupo 04-28-07, 05:41 PM	I 2nd... or 3rd... or 4th whatever its up to now, the invisible blade+master thrower. My current character is one of those, and with TWF and the master throwers abilities, I can throw 14 daggers as touch attacks in one round. If you want to be devious you could become an insectile creature (savage species) and gain 4 more dagger wielding arms :evillaugh Although I've heard that the extra arms can't be used in combat, but its not specifically written anywhere, so talk to your DM. Is that gauntlet in the MIC? (I really need to get that...) As a fellow dagger fan, What does that class that was mentioned from CS do?
TheMagister 04-28-07, 06:17 PM	See the XPH for the +1 equivalent thrown weapon psionic enhancement: Teleporting. It's better than Returning (you don't have to "catch" it, and you don't have to be in the same spot from which you threw it initially). I know you said you wanted your character to be awesome with any dagger he picked up, and that's still a worthy goal. Good equipment never hurt either, though. Consider ranks in UMD for a wand of Girallion's Blessing (Spell Compendium, lasts 10 min/level, recipient gains two extra arms) which could be useful for throwing just two more off-hand daggers. :) TM
theotherdraxen 04-28-07, 06:42 PM	My advice: go with a high dex and int character. Stick mostly with rogue, but take two levels of monk and three levels of swashbuckler. Go for the Kung Fu Genius feat from dragon magazine #319. Then, go into Invisible Blade and Master Thrower. If you can, get Improved Combat Expertise and two +5 defending daggers as your melee weapons, then go for it. You can potentially top out with a 17 BAB, 40 precision-based damage, and an AC around 50; 80 when you want to make sure no one hits' you. Since there's a couple of things you want to add in there (like Track, Quickdraw, and Master Thrower) you might not be able to get as far as that, but good luck anyway.
CantripN 04-28-07, 06:54 PM	Also, there's the Barbed Dagger from Complete Adventurer that's an Exotic Weapon, but adds 2 more points of damage to every attack. That could be alot, and Exotic Weapon Master is always handy, as are 1-2 levels in Master of Masks (Which would get you Exotic Weapon Prof. (All) and +2 to Attack & Damage).
captain_pelor 04-28-07, 06:59 PM	Rouge 6/Fighter 4/Invisible Blade 5/Master Thrower 2/Streetfighter 3 No one will ever diss your daggers again. This build has made me one of the top damage dealers in my party. Only the damn Wu-Jen beats me of course thats because of empowered maximized quickened exploding lightening blade. I mae this Build with V for Vendetta in mind btw.
CantripN 04-28-07, 07:42 PM	Your build has 6 levels in Makeup, but couldn't spare a level for MoM, even with V being one? Why?
Zelck 04-28-07, 10:31 PM	no longer needed...
liquidhypnotic 04-30-07, 10:38 PM	Perseus - 1) EDIT, COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC: I am full of lies. "If it was" is correct, now that I think about it. I would also like to point out that the SAT certainly does test for what you're somewhat unfairly calling "Old English"; horrible things like the predicate nominative as well as the certainly arcane like the subjunctive. I'll PM you with a link when I blog about the subjunctive which I plan on doing soon. (Don't ask; I do this). 2) Hmmmm, cast Detect Sarcasm on my post. (Moderate aura) I was joking about the fact that I saw several people comment on house ruling in such an item, when the OP said that his character was built around it pretty clearly several times. Not an attack on you, but I'm thinking if you didn't get it, then maybe other people didn't get it either. Carry on!
Perseus_Stoned 04-30-07, 11:11 PM	Perseus - 1) "If your post 'were'", "if it 'were'". The subjunctive is an advanced grammar rule that sadly most people never get to learn correctly (every time I hear "dont'cha wish your girlfriend was hot like me", I want to shoot myself in the :mad: albiet for several reasons), and mastering it gives you a sexy grammatical edge. 2) Hmmmm, cast Detect Sarcasm on my post. (Moderate aura) I was joking about the fact that I saw several people comment on house ruling in such an item, when the OP said that his character was built around it pretty clearly several times. Not an attack on you, but I'm thinking if you didn't get it, then maybe other people didn't get it either. Carry on! Hey, no offense taken at all; especially considering I'd never heard of such an item before so, while I did not consider an item that could produce an unlimited amount of normal daggers (as far as I could tell, this is what it does) overpowered, I wished to double-check. And, while I'll grant you I want not familiar with the "were" rule, I stand in favor of my post's original grammatical usage. While, I'm certainly not perfect with grammar (note my beginning this sentence with an "and"), I am typically found to do one of three things when such a mistake has been made: 1) Have actually made a mistake, or something I consider to be a mistake 2) Have done it with the intent my meaning is still clear and it just sounds smoother when spoken or, in this case, 3) Adhere to a grammatical code that, while not perfect Old English, is the type that gets me points on the ACT and the like (which does not abide by old grammatical-traditions like the "were" argument you are posing) Sorry, but young'uns in this country suffer if they wish to be grammatically correct by Old English standards. Edit: Mind you I'm always up for a grammatical lesson, however, so do continue indulging me and others if you feel it is a legitimate grammatical mistake on our part.
Angerland 04-30-07, 11:17 PM	must be something in the air this time of year. I was contemplating a Halfling Rogue (sub levels) leading up to a Whisperknife. I think these levels are pretty awesome with this build adding in bonus SA damage at range, and really only losing 1d6 Sa damage in melee. My build had me going Rog2/Ftr4/WspKnfX would only be down one BaB by 6th Level and have 6 feats already by then (thank you 4th lvl Ftr). Definetly high on my list of next characters.....
Sylock 05-01-07, 01:50 PM	Excellent, all excellent. For RP reasons (a wild concept, I know) I don't want to dilute the character with any spellcasting. Do we think that a level or two of fighter, with the increased BaB and free feats, would offset a slower Sneak Attack progression? Oh, and as to how many daggers do I carry, the Gauntlet of Infinite Blades is what inspired this character, and is the centerpiece of his build. How many daggers? Infinite Daggers. Sweet Christmas, I love that thing. You might want to really look into Daggerspell mages though. By taking Practiced Spellcaster feat then you only need to take one level in mage to qualify for Daggerspell mage. Then you get a 9/10 spellcasting progression keeping your BaB and just slighly less sneak attack but ... here are the HUGE two things you get. You can cast touch attacks and hold them in your dagger. Example, you cast vampiric touch on you your dagger. Sneak attack, or regular attack, they deal the normal damage, but then add in (once you get to third level spells ... which is daggerspell level 5 because of the 1 level in mage you had) then you add +5d6 in vampiric damage. Here is an awsome build that I am doing next: 1 Rogue 2 Swashbuckler 3 Swashbuckler 4 Swashbuckler 5 Mage 6 Daggerspell mage 7 Daggerspell mage 8 Daggerspell mage 9 Daggerspell mage 10 Daggerspell mage 11 Invisible Blade 12 Invisible Blade 13 Invisible Blade 14 Invisible Blade 15 Invisible Blade 16 Daggerspell mage 17 Daggerspell mage 18 Daggerspell mage 19 Daggerspell mage 20 Daggerspell mage Caster level is 14 You are making sneak 7d6 sneak attacks. Each dagger can hold a touch attack, lets say Vampiric Touch for an additional 7d6 damage ... that you get back in hit points. You get one FREE (read no need to take the feat or increase the spell slot level) quickened spell every round that you take a full attack sequence, and since you can feint for free :). Hiding in the shadows, Sylock waits for his prey. Just as the BAD GUY rounds the courner Sylock unleashes a LEVEL 5 SPELL as a CL 14 while attacking twice for (1d4 + 7d6 + 7d6) 'healing' yourself twice for 7d6. Then you still have sneak attacks coming since you can feint with free actions
calvinNhobbes 05-01-07, 02:22 PM	I don't think anyone else has mentioned this, but have you thought of using shuriken instead of daggers? They are just throwing knives and being ammunition they open up additional options. Not sure if this would work with some of the mentioned PRC since I think they require certain feats specializing specifically in daggers.
Llathos 05-01-07, 02:39 PM	I understand your desire to make this flavor work mechanically, but I don't think it's really possible. With the right combination of magic items and classes, you can be interesting, but you'll never be particularly impressive per dagger thrown. You can increase damage by machinegunning them, but the reality will always be that when you fling a dagger at something, it basically only does a few damage. DR will murder you. Sure, if you take rogue you can get SA with your thrown daggers on occasion ( ie when you win init ). Since there's no flanking with range, you're basically screwed unless you go to melee. If you're gonna do that, you might as well have used kukris for the better crit range. Anything you do magically to the dagger, you can do on a better base weapon and do more damage. If the flavor is more important than the combat effectiveness, then more power to ya. You can be a badass dagger-trickery fool if you want. Just don't expect the guy with the composite longbow to be impressed.
Aracor 05-01-07, 04:42 PM	Best way to get sneak attacks off with daggers (or any other ranged weapon) is to use greater invisibility/blink. Or use a wand of grease under their feet. Either way is a great method to deny their dexterity, in which case sneak attacks work wonderfully.
emagius 05-01-07, 04:53 PM	Remember, you only need to pick up Point Blank Shot and maybe Far Shot from the ranged feat tree, as Two Weapon Fighting can be used with throwing weapons. And since daggers are both throwing and melee weapons, one in each hand is good no matter where your enemies are. You'd still want Rapid Shot. Its benefit stacks with that of the TWF chain.
SirGeshko 05-01-07, 05:05 PM	Sure, if you take rogue you can get SA with your thrown daggers on occasion ( ie when you win init ). Since there's no flanking with range, you're basically screwed unless you go to melee. Unless he plays a halfling with 9 levels of Whisperknife. (Races of the Wild)^_^ I don't think DR is going to be a problem, since the OP has already stated his DM runs a low power campaign. I doubt the Whisperknife ability would even come into play! (lvl 10 = godlike! :eek: ) A quick glance at the CR 9s in the SRD brings up Elementals with DR 10/- (which a rogue-type should be staying away from anyway!) and a few outsiders with 10/Alignment DRs. Invisible Blade or Master Thrower is the way to go, depending on if you want to melee or throw. ;)
Rhuxley 05-01-07, 05:15 PM	There is a significant advantage to weilding 2 daggers: Weapon based feats. Weapon focus would give you a +1 on both weapons as opposed to just one. Daggers are nice because you can throw them, and could get them enchanted with returning. I would suggest taking 2-4 levels of fighter, and using those feats for weapon finesse, weapon focus & weapon specialization. That would add to the deadliness of any build. The rest should be something that maximizes sneak attack, and as many odd levels of those classes as possible. Go with +1, seeking, returning daggers for the ability to bypass concealment and get sneak attack anyway. I would suggest assassin levels for the ability to cast concealment spells. and the seeking daggers make the darkness spell much more usefull.
Sylock 05-02-07, 07:00 AM	I would suggest taking 2-4 levels of fighter, and using those feats for weapon finesse, weapon focus & weapon specialization. That would add to the deadliness of any build. I still think Swashbuckler over Fighter for this build. Weapon Finesse is given to Swashbuckler, Fighter takes it at first level, push. Intuitive Strike is given to Swashbuckler at level 3 instead of weapon specialization for the level 4 fighter feat. Intuitive Strike should be greater then weapon spec for this build I would imagine. Swashbuckler gets +1 to Ref Save. Swashbuckler gets +2 more skill points and nice class skills. Fighter gets 1 extra feat.
Rhuxley 05-02-07, 01:49 PM	Intuitive Strike should be greater then weapon spec for this build I would imagine. Swashbuckler gets +1 to Ref Save. Swashbuckler gets +2 more skill points and nice class skills. Fighter gets 1 extra feat. For one feat i would totaly trade a full level, +1 reflex saves, +2 skill points better skill selection, and more damage. Good call.
lint trap 05-02-07, 04:43 PM	You mentioned earlier that you were going with an assassination theme. If you meant that literally, take a gander at the Avenger (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a) PrC. It's basically a non-chaotic assassin (not basically; that's exactly what it is).