DC for hearing spell casting [Archive] - Wizards Community

DC for hearing spell casting [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
wizarddog
05-31-07, 09:46 PM I have situations where a spellcaster may reveal themselves from hiding or invisibility by using the verbal component of a spell.

I was wondering how any you may assign DC for a listen check for that.

Would the other have to spend an action to try and listen and hear it?

What if they cast a spell to create a sound somewhere else to distract? :plotting:
Salla
05-31-07, 10:02 PM IIRC, the DC for hearing normal speech is 0. Listener distracted is listed as a +5 modifier to the DC. Add 1 more to the DC for each 10' distance between the listener and the caster, and you're good to go.

This isn't an action, per se, it's a reaction, so no time is required on the part of the listener.
Krusk
05-31-07, 10:39 PM What if they cast a spell to create a sound somewhere else to distract? :plotting:

sallas got it, and as for this part. So long as the spell that creates a sound does not have a verbal component that works.
Egres
06-01-07, 03:43 AM IIRC, the DC for hearing normal speech is 0.
But casting a spell isn't "normal speech".

To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice. A silence spell or a gag spoils the incantation (and thus the spell).
tui
06-01-07, 11:25 AM To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice.
I think that still qualifies as "normal speech". It doesn't say you have to shout, and just implies to me you can't whisper or mutter to make it hard for people to hear you. So I say use the normal DC.
tarkin
06-01-07, 11:27 AM Strong Voice can not be harder than "normal voice".

If you are feeling "Strict", I could see using a DC of -5 for "Strong Voice".

But honestly, I think they used the words Strong Voice simply to make it quite clear that you can't whisper or try to weasal out of understanding it is a normal tone in any way shape or form.
kjenks
06-01-07, 11:34 AM Races of Stone has an alternate skill use for Sleight of Hand to disguise spellcasting. Trained only. Check it out.
Egres
06-02-07, 05:56 AM I think that still qualifies as "normal speech". It doesn't say you have to shout, and just implies to me you can't whisper or mutter to make it hard for people to hear you. So I say use the normal DC.

Do you normally speak in a strong voice?
kjenks
06-02-07, 08:30 AM Do you normally speak in a strong voice?

I do, but not everybody does.
Egres
06-03-07, 07:56 PM I do, but not everybody does.

So, don't you think that is easier to hear you than people who speak not so loud?
tomas_q
06-03-07, 08:28 PM you should use the "silent spell" metamagic feat
tui
06-03-07, 09:12 PM Do you normally speak in a strong voice?
Yes, I think so. Unless I'm trying to be quiet... and I think that's the point; you can't cast a spell in a "trying to be quiet" voice.
Edymnion
06-03-07, 09:37 PM Do you normally speak in a strong voice?Do you normally speak in a weak voice?
kjenks
06-04-07, 12:25 AM Yes, I think so. Unless I'm trying to be quiet... and I think that's the point; you can't cast a spell in a "trying to be quiet" voice.

Some characters can.

Races of Stone has an alternate skill use for Sleight of Hand to disguise spellcasting. Trained only. Check it out.
LoreleiIsildae
06-04-07, 12:26 AM you should use the "silent spell" metamagic feat

Here's a good question. What would the Listen DC be for a Silent spell that still had somatic components? Being able to hear the spellcaster's arms moving about?
Nom
06-04-07, 02:33 AM Do you normally speak in a weak voice?Yes, actually. A weak (or "normal", if you prefer) voice is what I use when I'm standing next to someone chatting. A strong voice is what I use when I'm giving a seminar to 10-15 people and want to make sure everyone can hear me. A strong voice is louder than normal conversation, though whether it's enough louder to modify the DC is a different issue.

PS: Some people use a strong voice all the time. It's easy to spot - if people sway away and flinch when you speak to them you are speaking too loudly. Or you are spitting.
Nicholas the Paladin
06-04-07, 03:18 AM double post
Nicholas the Paladin
06-04-07, 03:21 AM Races of Stone has an alternate skill use for Sleight of Hand to disguise spellcasting. Trained only. Check it out. That's a great skill I use a lot for my Beguiler.

So the DC for hearing someone out is DC 5+ 1/10 ft. But that's not enough to find and hit someone. According to this WOTC article...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a
....it isn't enough.

To Notice is: (0 + 5) DC + 1/10ft
To Locate: (20 +5) DC + 1/10ft

But how does the RoS-skill affect this? It says that a succesfull 'Sleight of hand' check opposed by a 'Spot' check will have the effect that an opponent does't *see* (or notice) you casting.

In this case it probably will be a 'Sleight of hand' check opposed by a 'Listen' check. According to the same article that would probably be:
To Locate: ('Sleight of hand'-check + 20 +5) DC + 1/10ft.

man, that's hard to beat ! :)
(that's almost game breakingly good)
Egres
06-04-07, 04:31 AM Do you normally speak in a weak voice?
No, I don't speak at all: I use gestures.

But this doesn't change the fact that speaking with a strong voice cannot require the same DC to hear a normal speech, unless "strong" and "normal" means the same for you.

Yes, actually. A weak (or "normal", if you prefer) voice is what I use when I'm standing next to someone chatting. A strong voice is what I use when I'm giving a seminar to 10-15 people and want to make sure everyone can hear me. A strong voice is louder than normal conversation, though whether it's enough louder to modify the DC is a different issue.
If you give a seminar using normal speech you'll soon start to hear people asking for a louder voice.
lint trap
06-04-07, 10:40 AM Just for comparison, the Primitive Caster feat requires verbal components that are "shouts, screams, and growls." The Listen DC for these noises is listed as -5. So a DC 0 for normal spell components seems in line.
DragonDan
06-04-07, 12:23 PM Just for comparison, the Primitive Caster feat requires verbal components that are "shouts, screams, and growls." The Listen DC for these noises is listed as -5. So a DC 0 for normal spell components seems in line.

Good info.
Evil DM Mk3
06-04-07, 12:40 PM I allways speak with a strong voice, I knwo some peopel who often speak in what may be termed a weak voice, they are frequently asked to repeat themsleves and to stop mumbling. Many people use Strong as a synonym of Clear when it comes to speach.
tomas_q
06-04-07, 04:50 PM Here's a good question. What would the Listen DC be for a Silent spell that still had somatic components? Being able to hear the spellcaster's arms moving about?

It could probably be around 20 (19 is a cat stalking, PHB) and it should vary according the caster's armor or clothes. Remember it is added +1 to DC per 10 feet distance.

But now we should think what would happen if the caster is using the move silently skill, i guess the move silently check of the caster should add to the DC for the listener...
Egres
06-04-07, 09:49 PM Just for comparison, the Primitive Caster feat requires verbal components that are "shouts, screams, and growls." The Listen DC for these noises is listed as -5. So a DC 0 for normal spell components seems in line.
Mmh..no.

A -2, like suggested in the DMG guide, is a good rule of thumb.
Nicholas the Paladin
06-06-07, 02:21 AM That's a great skill I use a lot for my Beguiler.

So the DC for hearing someone out is DC 5+ 1/10 ft. But that's not enough to find and hit someone. According to this WOTC article...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a
....it isn't enough.

To Notice is: (0 + 5) DC + 1/10ft
To Locate: (20 +5) DC + 1/10ft

But how does the RoS-skill affect this? It says that a succesfull 'Sleight of hand' check opposed by a 'Spot' check will have the effect that an opponent does't *see* (or notice) you casting.

In this case it probably will be a 'Sleight of hand' check opposed by a 'Listen' check. According to the same article that would probably be:
To Locate: ('Sleight of hand'-check + 20 +5) DC + 1/10ft.

man, that's hard to beat ! :)
(that's almost game breakingly good)
@Wizarddog, is this helping you?
Kouk
06-06-07, 03:56 AM I agree with the strong voice = normal speech DC.

Doesn't have to be "loud", can just be enunciated clearly.
wizarddog
06-06-07, 04:11 AM @Wizarddog, is this helping you?

I took the answer at post #1 and forgot about it!:heehee

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wizarddog 05-31-07, 09:46 PM	I have situations where a spellcaster may reveal themselves from hiding or invisibility by using the verbal component of a spell. I was wondering how any you may assign DC for a listen check for that. Would the other have to spend an action to try and listen and hear it? What if they cast a spell to create a sound somewhere else to distract? :plotting:
Salla 05-31-07, 10:02 PM	IIRC, the DC for hearing normal speech is 0. Listener distracted is listed as a +5 modifier to the DC. Add 1 more to the DC for each 10' distance between the listener and the caster, and you're good to go. This isn't an action, per se, it's a reaction, so no time is required on the part of the listener.
Krusk 05-31-07, 10:39 PM	What if they cast a spell to create a sound somewhere else to distract? :plotting: sallas got it, and as for this part. So long as the spell that creates a sound does not have a verbal component that works.
Egres 06-01-07, 03:43 AM	IIRC, the DC for hearing normal speech is 0. But casting a spell isn't "normal speech". To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice. A silence spell or a gag spoils the incantation (and thus the spell).
tui 06-01-07, 11:25 AM	To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice. I think that still qualifies as "normal speech". It doesn't say you have to shout, and just implies to me you can't whisper or mutter to make it hard for people to hear you. So I say use the normal DC.
tarkin 06-01-07, 11:27 AM	Strong Voice can not be harder than "normal voice". If you are feeling "Strict", I could see using a DC of -5 for "Strong Voice". But honestly, I think they used the words Strong Voice simply to make it quite clear that you can't whisper or try to weasal out of understanding it is a normal tone in any way shape or form.
kjenks 06-01-07, 11:34 AM	Races of Stone has an alternate skill use for Sleight of Hand to disguise spellcasting. Trained only. Check it out.
Egres 06-02-07, 05:56 AM	I think that still qualifies as "normal speech". It doesn't say you have to shout, and just implies to me you can't whisper or mutter to make it hard for people to hear you. So I say use the normal DC. Do you normally speak in a strong voice?
kjenks 06-02-07, 08:30 AM	Do you normally speak in a strong voice? I do, but not everybody does.
Egres 06-03-07, 07:56 PM	I do, but not everybody does. So, don't you think that is easier to hear you than people who speak not so loud?
tomas_q 06-03-07, 08:28 PM	you should use the "silent spell" metamagic feat
tui 06-03-07, 09:12 PM	Do you normally speak in a strong voice? Yes, I think so. Unless I'm trying to be quiet... and I think that's the point; you can't cast a spell in a "trying to be quiet" voice.
Edymnion 06-03-07, 09:37 PM	Do you normally speak in a strong voice?Do you normally speak in a weak voice?
kjenks 06-04-07, 12:25 AM	Yes, I think so. Unless I'm trying to be quiet... and I think that's the point; you can't cast a spell in a "trying to be quiet" voice. Some characters can. Races of Stone has an alternate skill use for Sleight of Hand to disguise spellcasting. Trained only. Check it out.
LoreleiIsildae 06-04-07, 12:26 AM	you should use the "silent spell" metamagic feat Here's a good question. What would the Listen DC be for a Silent spell that still had somatic components? Being able to hear the spellcaster's arms moving about?
Nom 06-04-07, 02:33 AM	Do you normally speak in a weak voice?Yes, actually. A weak (or "normal", if you prefer) voice is what I use when I'm standing next to someone chatting. A strong voice is what I use when I'm giving a seminar to 10-15 people and want to make sure everyone can hear me. A strong voice is louder than normal conversation, though whether it's enough louder to modify the DC is a different issue. PS: Some people use a strong voice all the time. It's easy to spot - if people sway away and flinch when you speak to them you are speaking too loudly. Or you are spitting.
Nicholas the Paladin 06-04-07, 03:18 AM	double post
Nicholas the Paladin 06-04-07, 03:21 AM	Races of Stone has an alternate skill use for Sleight of Hand to disguise spellcasting. Trained only. Check it out. That's a great skill I use a lot for my Beguiler. So the DC for hearing someone out is DC 5+ 1/10 ft. But that's not enough to find and hit someone. According to this WOTC article... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a ....it isn't enough. To Notice is: (0 + 5) DC + 1/10ft To Locate: (20 +5) DC + 1/10ft But how does the RoS-skill affect this? It says that a succesfull 'Sleight of hand' check opposed by a 'Spot' check will have the effect that an opponent does't see (or notice) you casting. In this case it probably will be a 'Sleight of hand' check opposed by a 'Listen' check. According to the same article that would probably be: To Locate: ('Sleight of hand'-check + 20 +5) DC + 1/10ft. man, that's hard to beat ! :) (that's almost game breakingly good)
Egres 06-04-07, 04:31 AM	Do you normally speak in a weak voice? No, I don't speak at all: I use gestures. But this doesn't change the fact that speaking with a strong voice cannot require the same DC to hear a normal speech, unless "strong" and "normal" means the same for you. Yes, actually. A weak (or "normal", if you prefer) voice is what I use when I'm standing next to someone chatting. A strong voice is what I use when I'm giving a seminar to 10-15 people and want to make sure everyone can hear me. A strong voice is louder than normal conversation, though whether it's enough louder to modify the DC is a different issue. If you give a seminar using normal speech you'll soon start to hear people asking for a louder voice.
lint trap 06-04-07, 10:40 AM	Just for comparison, the Primitive Caster feat requires verbal components that are "shouts, screams, and growls." The Listen DC for these noises is listed as -5. So a DC 0 for normal spell components seems in line.
DragonDan 06-04-07, 12:23 PM	Just for comparison, the Primitive Caster feat requires verbal components that are "shouts, screams, and growls." The Listen DC for these noises is listed as -5. So a DC 0 for normal spell components seems in line. Good info.
Evil DM Mk3 06-04-07, 12:40 PM	I allways speak with a strong voice, I knwo some peopel who often speak in what may be termed a weak voice, they are frequently asked to repeat themsleves and to stop mumbling. Many people use Strong as a synonym of Clear when it comes to speach.
tomas_q 06-04-07, 04:50 PM	Here's a good question. What would the Listen DC be for a Silent spell that still had somatic components? Being able to hear the spellcaster's arms moving about? It could probably be around 20 (19 is a cat stalking, PHB) and it should vary according the caster's armor or clothes. Remember it is added +1 to DC per 10 feet distance. But now we should think what would happen if the caster is using the move silently skill, i guess the move silently check of the caster should add to the DC for the listener...
Egres 06-04-07, 09:49 PM	Just for comparison, the Primitive Caster feat requires verbal components that are "shouts, screams, and growls." The Listen DC for these noises is listed as -5. So a DC 0 for normal spell components seems in line. Mmh..no. A -2, like suggested in the DMG guide, is a good rule of thumb.
Nicholas the Paladin 06-06-07, 02:21 AM	That's a great skill I use a lot for my Beguiler. So the DC for hearing someone out is DC 5+ 1/10 ft. But that's not enough to find and hit someone. According to this WOTC article... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a ....it isn't enough. To Notice is: (0 + 5) DC + 1/10ft To Locate: (20 +5) DC + 1/10ft But how does the RoS-skill affect this? It says that a succesfull 'Sleight of hand' check opposed by a 'Spot' check will have the effect that an opponent does't see (or notice) you casting. In this case it probably will be a 'Sleight of hand' check opposed by a 'Listen' check. According to the same article that would probably be: To Locate: ('Sleight of hand'-check + 20 +5) DC + 1/10ft. man, that's hard to beat ! :) (that's almost game breakingly good) @Wizarddog, is this helping you?
Kouk 06-06-07, 03:56 AM	I agree with the strong voice = normal speech DC. Doesn't have to be "loud", can just be enunciated clearly.
wizarddog 06-06-07, 04:11 AM	@Wizarddog, is this helping you? I took the answer at post #1 and forgot about it!:heehee