Design & Development The Core Mechanic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Design & Development The Core Mechanic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Khellrendros
10-06-07, 10:32 PM http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071005

Ok, so let me get this straight. If I am standing in the center of a Great Wyrm Red Dragons Breath weapon with no way of hiding behind something or moving the huge blast of flame will actually miss me unless MR. Red rolls high????????????????????????

WOW!!! Wish I had known that when we used to fire AT-4's in the Marines. Cause hell if I can just stand there and the fire will completely miss me then screw it, why run.

That is only slightly retarded and completely unrealistic even in a fantasy world.
Gnarl
10-07-07, 04:11 AM http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071005

Ok, so let me get this straight. If I am standing in the center of a Great Wyrm Red Dragons Breath weapon with no way of hiding behind something or moving the huge blast of flame will actually miss me unless MR. Red rolls high????????????????????????

WOW!!! Wish I had known that when we used to fire AT-4's in the Marines. Cause hell if I can just stand there and the fire will completely miss me then screw it, why run.

That is only slightly retarded and completely unrealistic even in a fantasy world.

Well you could view this as sometimes, the bomb doesn't go off, or hits a school or the Chinese embassy 25 miles off target :D.
Dracomorph
10-07-07, 04:25 AM If you really dislike the mechanics of 4th ed., you don't have to use it. I won't, at least for a long time.

Also, Evasion in 3.5 presents the same logical issues. For example:

A Great Wyrm red dragon is flying directly overhead of a 2nd level rogue, who is standing in the middle of an open, featureless plain. It unleashes its fiery breath, which is more or less hot enough to melt sand into glass, or to make rocks glow with heat. If the rogue rolls a 20, then somehow he takes no damage, despite it being logically impossible to avoid it in any way.

I should add that I'm not trying to be mean here, but this isn't a quirk unique to 4e.
Vaelan
10-07-07, 04:37 AM This shocking phenomenon is hardly anything new. It is also quite easily explained.
Salla
10-07-07, 04:59 AM This is exactly like it is in 3.5, except that the Dragon is making the roll (an attack) rather than the player making the roll (a saving throw). The article does state that the dragon will deal half damage if he fails his attack roll, just as a 3.5 character will take half damage if he makes his reflex save.

Fire is not a solid mass of energy; it ripples, it roils. You could cover yourself up, luck into a gap in the flow, or any of a number of other ways that you can think of to avoid taking the full damage.

D&D combat is not realistic, and is not intended to be.
runestar
10-07-07, 05:58 AM Ok, so let me get this straight. If I am standing in the center of a Great Wyrm Red Dragons Breath weapon with no way of hiding behind something or moving the huge blast of flame will actually miss me unless MR. Red rolls high????????????????????????

Hey, the Flash did that in an episode of Justice league. He spun real fast, and those jets of flame just curled around him...:D

Besides, it is assumed that your rogue is that good that he is somehow able to dodge the breath, even if it does not seem logically conceivable. Maybe he wraps his cloak around him or something. Just because we can't picture it does not necessarily mean it is impossible.:)
Khellrendros
10-07-07, 12:24 PM While I agree that a saving throw is a saving throw or atk roll. I honestly have no problem with the Evasion feat hey look he avoided damage. It's the fact that 1) I read it to mean that on a 1 the dragon somehow forgot to breath or something and nothing would happen to the character, seems I read it incorrectly. 2) While I agree that fire is a thing that is almost alive in its movement you are not going to get that lucky. I have seen the backblast from an AT-4 rocket roast someone alive. He had no chance to escape. That's reality. So I am fine with the half dmg thing if that is how it is the fantasy is still ok. However if somehow the dragon can fumble or crit it still hits me the wrong way. How do you crit as a dragon one roll for the whole party? Well if he crits that one then the party can probably kiss its @ss goodbye. It just doesn't sit right with me, so far nothing I've seen sits right. Hopefully that will change the more I see however the less hope I have of seeing it turn out that way.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Khellrendros 10-06-07, 10:32 PM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071005 Ok, so let me get this straight. If I am standing in the center of a Great Wyrm Red Dragons Breath weapon with no way of hiding behind something or moving the huge blast of flame will actually miss me unless MR. Red rolls high???????????????????????? WOW!!! Wish I had known that when we used to fire AT-4's in the Marines. Cause hell if I can just stand there and the fire will completely miss me then screw it, why run. That is only slightly retarded and completely unrealistic even in a fantasy world.
Gnarl 10-07-07, 04:11 AM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071005 Ok, so let me get this straight. If I am standing in the center of a Great Wyrm Red Dragons Breath weapon with no way of hiding behind something or moving the huge blast of flame will actually miss me unless MR. Red rolls high???????????????????????? WOW!!! Wish I had known that when we used to fire AT-4's in the Marines. Cause hell if I can just stand there and the fire will completely miss me then screw it, why run. That is only slightly retarded and completely unrealistic even in a fantasy world. Well you could view this as sometimes, the bomb doesn't go off, or hits a school or the Chinese embassy 25 miles off target :D.
Dracomorph 10-07-07, 04:25 AM	If you really dislike the mechanics of 4th ed., you don't have to use it. I won't, at least for a long time. Also, Evasion in 3.5 presents the same logical issues. For example: A Great Wyrm red dragon is flying directly overhead of a 2nd level rogue, who is standing in the middle of an open, featureless plain. It unleashes its fiery breath, which is more or less hot enough to melt sand into glass, or to make rocks glow with heat. If the rogue rolls a 20, then somehow he takes no damage, despite it being logically impossible to avoid it in any way. I should add that I'm not trying to be mean here, but this isn't a quirk unique to 4e.
Vaelan 10-07-07, 04:37 AM	This shocking phenomenon is hardly anything new. It is also quite easily explained.
Salla 10-07-07, 04:59 AM	This is exactly like it is in 3.5, except that the Dragon is making the roll (an attack) rather than the player making the roll (a saving throw). The article does state that the dragon will deal half damage if he fails his attack roll, just as a 3.5 character will take half damage if he makes his reflex save. Fire is not a solid mass of energy; it ripples, it roils. You could cover yourself up, luck into a gap in the flow, or any of a number of other ways that you can think of to avoid taking the full damage. D&D combat is not realistic, and is not intended to be.
runestar 10-07-07, 05:58 AM	Ok, so let me get this straight. If I am standing in the center of a Great Wyrm Red Dragons Breath weapon with no way of hiding behind something or moving the huge blast of flame will actually miss me unless MR. Red rolls high???????????????????????? Hey, the Flash did that in an episode of Justice league. He spun real fast, and those jets of flame just curled around him...:D Besides, it is assumed that your rogue is that good that he is somehow able to dodge the breath, even if it does not seem logically conceivable. Maybe he wraps his cloak around him or something. Just because we can't picture it does not necessarily mean it is impossible.:)
Khellrendros 10-07-07, 12:24 PM	While I agree that a saving throw is a saving throw or atk roll. I honestly have no problem with the Evasion feat hey look he avoided damage. It's the fact that 1) I read it to mean that on a 1 the dragon somehow forgot to breath or something and nothing would happen to the character, seems I read it incorrectly. 2) While I agree that fire is a thing that is almost alive in its movement you are not going to get that lucky. I have seen the backblast from an AT-4 rocket roast someone alive. He had no chance to escape. That's reality. So I am fine with the half dmg thing if that is how it is the fantasy is still ok. However if somehow the dragon can fumble or crit it still hits me the wrong way. How do you crit as a dragon one roll for the whole party? Well if he crits that one then the party can probably kiss its @ss goodbye. It just doesn't sit right with me, so far nothing I've seen sits right. Hopefully that will change the more I see however the less hope I have of seeing it turn out that way.