Disguise skill [Archive] - Wizards Community

Disguise skill [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sammaron_BLib
06-04-07, 10:34 AM Does disguise also disguise your voice? IF not, what would?
lint trap
06-04-07, 10:51 AM Nothing in the skill description implies that it's a purely visual skill. So yes, it can also disguise your voice.
tui
06-04-07, 11:25 AM I don't know... Disguise is opposed by Spot, which wouldn't really do anything for detecting a change in voice. I'd think changing your voice would be a Bluff check opposed by someone's Sense Motive skill.

I think I'd give a synergy bonus to the Bluff check for 5 or more ranks in Disguise, though, for that use of the skill.
goawayugh
06-04-07, 11:45 AM I don't know... Disguise is opposed by Spot, which wouldn't really do anything for detecting a change in voice. I'd think changing your voice would be a Bluff check opposed by someone's Sense Motive skill.

I think I'd give a synergy bonus to the Bluff check for 5 or more ranks in Disguise, though, for that use of the skill.

Agreed. Disguise makes you LOOK different. Unless you have some way of magically altering your voice, it is still the same.
jaelis
06-04-07, 12:14 PM There's no way listed in the rules to specifically disguise your voice, so it would take house ruling in any case. I would put it under Disguise, and require a Listen check to notice it.
draolindroculic
06-04-07, 02:02 PM There's a skill trick in Complete Scoundrel called Assume Quirk.
it pretty much allows you to act like a specific person by assuming their quirks. I would allow that skill trick to disguise the voice.
draolindroculic
06-04-07, 02:03 PM Or, use a bluff check vs sense motive to say you have a cold or something.
lint trap
06-04-07, 03:51 PM Honestly, I think skills are too specific as is without forcing a character to take ranks in 2 different skills just to be able to disguise themselves. But I also think that Spot/Listen and Hide/Move Silently should be single skills, so go figure.
LoreleiIsildae
06-05-07, 12:43 AM Disguise itself is opposed by a spot check only. However, 5 ranks in Bluff gives you a synergy bonus to Disguise "when you know you're being observed and you try to act in character." (PHB) I'm pretty sure that if you seem suspicious enough to warrant a Sense Motive check, you would then oppose it with Bluff, where you would be assuming a different voice. But if the initial Spot check fails, you're good to go.
o_b_livion
06-05-07, 12:51 AM In Oriental Adventures (shame on you Wizards for using a deragatory term), its called Mimicry. Its skill for mimicking noises, voices, etc. Sorta like Rangers/Druids communicating as birds before they ambush the enemy.
TheAnthroDM
06-05-07, 12:57 AM Agreed. Disguise makes you LOOK different. Unless you have some way of magically altering your voice, it is still the same.
FYI, alot of people can change their voice without magic.
Nicholas the Paladin
06-06-07, 06:50 AM There's no way listed in the rules to specifically disguise your voice, so it would take house ruling in any case. I would put it under Disguise, and require a Listen check to notice it.
No houserule is nescecarry.

It is covered under the description of the skill:
- impersonating another race (penalty)
- impersonating another gender (penalty)
- impersonating someone specific (penalty)

these are all factores that (also) take into account the specific voice of a race/gender/person.

the rules are clearcut and playable; keep it that way.
jaelis
06-06-07, 07:52 AM So you recommend using a Spot check to recognize a disguised voice? That would be a bit odd, don't you think?
Dheran
06-06-07, 02:25 PM So you recommend using a Spot check to recognize a disguised voice? That would be a bit odd, don't you think? Not really. You'd also use Spot to notice an acrid taste or a rough texture. D&D doesn't have all 5 senses represented. They really only model sight and sound, with sight taking priority. Scent is only available as a special racial ability or spell (without skill ranks to fine-tune olfactory recognition), and the other senses are ignored.

Whether we like it or not, Spot has to be the catch-all skill for perception in D&D.
jaelis
06-06-07, 04:08 PM Whether we like it or not, Spot has to be the catch-all skill for perception in D&D.
Well, except for Listen... :rolleyes:

But I think I get your point. You're saying that you use Spot to notice something out of place, whether it is visually, aurally, or anything else. Listen is more specifically for hearing faint sounds.

I wouldn't complain if a DM ruled that way. But myself, I'd still use Listen.
tui
06-06-07, 05:02 PM Whether we like it or not, Spot has to be the catch-all skill for perception in D&D.
How about this situation:

You're infiltrating an enemy base and you come across a guard station. You notice that periodically the guards on the inside talk over the big wall to the guards on the outside, just to check in and make sure the coast is still clear and they're ok. You observe their patterns and hear their voices... so you sneak in and quietly take out the external guards. But then the internal guard asks you, "Everything ok over there?" You need to reply and pretend you're the guard you just killed/disabled, otherwise the other guard will sound the alarm... but the other guard can't see you; just hear....

Do you make a Disguise check? Or a Bluff check? I can see rational for both... someone who is good at disguises has got to be able to change their voice, otherwise there is no way they could act in character. But you're also trying to talk your way out of something. And perhaps Disguise/Bluff go together like Spot/Listen and Hide/Move Silently in that in order to really be effective you need ranks in both. As a DM, I'd actually probably let the player roll whichever (Disguise/Bluff) they were better at. (But then I also think I'd allow someone to make a Sense Motive check to "notice if something is up" to oppose someone's Disguise check, if they were better at Sense Motive than Spot.)

Then, on the other side of the wall, is the bad guy going to Spot your Disguise? Listen for your voice? Or Sense Motive your Bluff? Maybe Listen.. but that's usually for whether he can hear your voice. Probably not Spot, since he can't actually see you. So Sense Motive seems the logical conclusion to me.

So getting back to the OP, I guess I'd say Disguise CAN change your voice, but you can ALSO change it with Bluff.
LoreleiIsildae
06-06-07, 08:11 PM Trying to act like someone you aren't is essentially a bluff, since you are lying to achieve a desired end. However, when you are simply dressed as another person and the situation doesn't warrant close inspection, say you are pretending to be a traveling merchant trying to get into the city, then Disguise is the skill you use opposed by the city guard's Spot check.

If you are in a situation in which you have to act in character, i.e. pretending to be an acquaintance of one of the guards, then Disguise still applies, but the DC is increased. If the guard notices something amiss, your DM may allow you to try and Bluff your way out of it, which is then opposed by the guard's Sense Motive.

If you can't be seen, then Disguise wouldn't apply since it is opposed by Spot. Then you would use Bluff.
Nicholas the Paladin
06-07-07, 02:47 AM If you can't be seen, then Disguise wouldn't apply since it is opposed by Spot. Then you would use Bluff. For this particular example, that would be logical. But would this Bluff-skill be opposed by 'sense motive' ... or 'listen'? :)
Sammaron_BLib
06-10-07, 07:55 PM Hee Hee ^^ lotsa different answers. For me, I'm gunna say disguise is also for your voice and is opposed by a sense motive check... or listen... I dont know :D
LoreleiIsildae
06-13-07, 09:00 PM For this particular example, that would be logical. But would this Bluff-skill be opposed by 'sense motive' ... or 'listen'? :)

I would still say Sense Motive, since whomever you're bluffing can obviously hear you.
wizarddog
06-14-07, 12:40 AM To disguise your voice is nothing. Anyone can do that.

To disguise your voice to act a particular person requires perform acting (why else would their be a synergy bonus?) or an appropriate verbal skill.

A disguise check is opposed a spot to see through the disguise. It's physical.

If you need to talk to others then you have to use the diplomancy, intimidate, and bluff skills. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sammaron_BLib 06-04-07, 10:34 AM	Does disguise also disguise your voice? IF not, what would?
lint trap 06-04-07, 10:51 AM	Nothing in the skill description implies that it's a purely visual skill. So yes, it can also disguise your voice.
tui 06-04-07, 11:25 AM	I don't know... Disguise is opposed by Spot, which wouldn't really do anything for detecting a change in voice. I'd think changing your voice would be a Bluff check opposed by someone's Sense Motive skill. I think I'd give a synergy bonus to the Bluff check for 5 or more ranks in Disguise, though, for that use of the skill.
goawayugh 06-04-07, 11:45 AM	I don't know... Disguise is opposed by Spot, which wouldn't really do anything for detecting a change in voice. I'd think changing your voice would be a Bluff check opposed by someone's Sense Motive skill. I think I'd give a synergy bonus to the Bluff check for 5 or more ranks in Disguise, though, for that use of the skill. Agreed. Disguise makes you LOOK different. Unless you have some way of magically altering your voice, it is still the same.
jaelis 06-04-07, 12:14 PM	There's no way listed in the rules to specifically disguise your voice, so it would take house ruling in any case. I would put it under Disguise, and require a Listen check to notice it.
draolindroculic 06-04-07, 02:02 PM	There's a skill trick in Complete Scoundrel called Assume Quirk. it pretty much allows you to act like a specific person by assuming their quirks. I would allow that skill trick to disguise the voice.
draolindroculic 06-04-07, 02:03 PM	Or, use a bluff check vs sense motive to say you have a cold or something.
lint trap 06-04-07, 03:51 PM	Honestly, I think skills are too specific as is without forcing a character to take ranks in 2 different skills just to be able to disguise themselves. But I also think that Spot/Listen and Hide/Move Silently should be single skills, so go figure.
LoreleiIsildae 06-05-07, 12:43 AM	Disguise itself is opposed by a spot check only. However, 5 ranks in Bluff gives you a synergy bonus to Disguise "when you know you're being observed and you try to act in character." (PHB) I'm pretty sure that if you seem suspicious enough to warrant a Sense Motive check, you would then oppose it with Bluff, where you would be assuming a different voice. But if the initial Spot check fails, you're good to go.
o_b_livion 06-05-07, 12:51 AM	In Oriental Adventures (shame on you Wizards for using a deragatory term), its called Mimicry. Its skill for mimicking noises, voices, etc. Sorta like Rangers/Druids communicating as birds before they ambush the enemy.
TheAnthroDM 06-05-07, 12:57 AM	Agreed. Disguise makes you LOOK different. Unless you have some way of magically altering your voice, it is still the same. FYI, alot of people can change their voice without magic.
Nicholas the Paladin 06-06-07, 06:50 AM	There's no way listed in the rules to specifically disguise your voice, so it would take house ruling in any case. I would put it under Disguise, and require a Listen check to notice it. No houserule is nescecarry. It is covered under the description of the skill: - impersonating another race (penalty) - impersonating another gender (penalty) - impersonating someone specific (penalty) these are all factores that (also) take into account the specific voice of a race/gender/person. the rules are clearcut and playable; keep it that way.
jaelis 06-06-07, 07:52 AM	So you recommend using a Spot check to recognize a disguised voice? That would be a bit odd, don't you think?
Dheran 06-06-07, 02:25 PM	So you recommend using a Spot check to recognize a disguised voice? That would be a bit odd, don't you think? Not really. You'd also use Spot to notice an acrid taste or a rough texture. D&D doesn't have all 5 senses represented. They really only model sight and sound, with sight taking priority. Scent is only available as a special racial ability or spell (without skill ranks to fine-tune olfactory recognition), and the other senses are ignored. Whether we like it or not, Spot has to be the catch-all skill for perception in D&D.
jaelis 06-06-07, 04:08 PM	Whether we like it or not, Spot has to be the catch-all skill for perception in D&D. Well, except for Listen... :rolleyes: But I think I get your point. You're saying that you use Spot to notice something out of place, whether it is visually, aurally, or anything else. Listen is more specifically for hearing faint sounds. I wouldn't complain if a DM ruled that way. But myself, I'd still use Listen.
tui 06-06-07, 05:02 PM	Whether we like it or not, Spot has to be the catch-all skill for perception in D&D. How about this situation: You're infiltrating an enemy base and you come across a guard station. You notice that periodically the guards on the inside talk over the big wall to the guards on the outside, just to check in and make sure the coast is still clear and they're ok. You observe their patterns and hear their voices... so you sneak in and quietly take out the external guards. But then the internal guard asks you, "Everything ok over there?" You need to reply and pretend you're the guard you just killed/disabled, otherwise the other guard will sound the alarm... but the other guard can't see you; just hear.... Do you make a Disguise check? Or a Bluff check? I can see rational for both... someone who is good at disguises has got to be able to change their voice, otherwise there is no way they could act in character. But you're also trying to talk your way out of something. And perhaps Disguise/Bluff go together like Spot/Listen and Hide/Move Silently in that in order to really be effective you need ranks in both. As a DM, I'd actually probably let the player roll whichever (Disguise/Bluff) they were better at. (But then I also think I'd allow someone to make a Sense Motive check to "notice if something is up" to oppose someone's Disguise check, if they were better at Sense Motive than Spot.) Then, on the other side of the wall, is the bad guy going to Spot your Disguise? Listen for your voice? Or Sense Motive your Bluff? Maybe Listen.. but that's usually for whether he can hear your voice. Probably not Spot, since he can't actually see you. So Sense Motive seems the logical conclusion to me. So getting back to the OP, I guess I'd say Disguise CAN change your voice, but you can ALSO change it with Bluff.
LoreleiIsildae 06-06-07, 08:11 PM	Trying to act like someone you aren't is essentially a bluff, since you are lying to achieve a desired end. However, when you are simply dressed as another person and the situation doesn't warrant close inspection, say you are pretending to be a traveling merchant trying to get into the city, then Disguise is the skill you use opposed by the city guard's Spot check. If you are in a situation in which you have to act in character, i.e. pretending to be an acquaintance of one of the guards, then Disguise still applies, but the DC is increased. If the guard notices something amiss, your DM may allow you to try and Bluff your way out of it, which is then opposed by the guard's Sense Motive. If you can't be seen, then Disguise wouldn't apply since it is opposed by Spot. Then you would use Bluff.
Nicholas the Paladin 06-07-07, 02:47 AM	If you can't be seen, then Disguise wouldn't apply since it is opposed by Spot. Then you would use Bluff. For this particular example, that would be logical. But would this Bluff-skill be opposed by 'sense motive' ... or 'listen'? :)
Sammaron_BLib 06-10-07, 07:55 PM	Hee Hee ^^ lotsa different answers. For me, I'm gunna say disguise is also for your voice and is opposed by a sense motive check... or listen... I dont know :D
LoreleiIsildae 06-13-07, 09:00 PM	For this particular example, that would be logical. But would this Bluff-skill be opposed by 'sense motive' ... or 'listen'? :) I would still say Sense Motive, since whomever you're bluffing can obviously hear you.
wizarddog 06-14-07, 12:40 AM	To disguise your voice is nothing. Anyone can do that. To disguise your voice to act a particular person requires perform acting (why else would their be a synergy bonus?) or an appropriate verbal skill. A disguise check is opposed a spot to see through the disguise. It's physical. If you need to talk to others then you have to use the diplomancy, intimidate, and bluff skills. ;)