Divine Feats + Quicken Turning [Archive] - Wizards Community

Divine Feats + Quicken Turning [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Oskur
05-07-07, 11:37 AM Yes, I realize this subject has been discussed in the past from all the references I've found, but I have yet to see anything official on it. Could someone point me in the right direction please?

The way I see it is that the description of Divine Feats in Complete Divine (as copied word for word in other sources as well) states that the Divine feats derive it's abilility directly from Turning Undead attempts which are a standard action, thus activating the feat is also a standard action (unless otherwise stated).

My understanding of that description is that if the Turning Undead attempt is Quickened, then so would the activation of any feat with a standard action (such as Divine Vigor or Divine Shield).

Has this been officially confirmed or denied? Please advise.

Thanks
Merestil Haye
05-07-07, 12:25 PM Yes, I realize this subject has been discussed in the past from all the references I've found, but I have yet to see anything official on it. Could someone point me in the right direction please?

The way I see it is that the description of Divine Feats in Complete Divine (as copied word for word in other sources as well) states that the Divine feats derive it's abilility directly from Turning Undead attempts which are a standard action, thus activating the feat is also a standard action (unless otherwise stated).

My understanding of that description is that if the Turning Undead attempt is Quickened, then so would the activation of any feat with a standard action (such as Divine Vigor or Divine Shield).

Has this been officially confirmed or denied? Please advise.

ThanksYour understanding is wrong.

Turning undead is a standard action. It is so listed on the Standard Actions table in the Combat section of the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions).

Using a Divine feat such as Divine Shield is not the Turn Undead action, but a separate special action called Use Feat, defined here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#miscellaneousActions ). You may only apply Quicken Turning to the Turn Undead action and not the Use Feat action.

This is the same reason why (for example) you cannot apply Spell Focus (Evocation) to a Fireball spell cast from a wand.
Radijs
05-07-07, 02:06 PM Your understanding is wrong.

Turning undead is a standard action. It is so listed on the Standard Actions table in the Combat section of the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions).

Using a Divine feat such as Divine Shield is not the Turn Undead action, but a separate special action called Use Feat, defined here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#miscellaneousActions ). You may only apply Quicken Turning to the Turn Undead action and not the Use Feat action.

This is the same reason why (for example) you cannot apply Spell Focus (Evocation) to a Fireball spell cast from a wand.
QFT: Quoted for truth
Oskur
05-07-07, 02:09 PM Your understanding is wrong.

Turning undead is a standard action. It is so listed on the Standard Actions table in the Combat section of the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions).

Using a Divine feat such as Divine Shield is not the Turn Undead action, but a separate special action called Use Feat, defined here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#miscellaneousActions ). You may only apply Quicken Turning to the Turn Undead action and not the Use Feat action.

This is the same reason why (for example) you cannot apply Spell Focus (Evocation) to a Fireball spell cast from a wand.

So, your opinion is that my opinion is wrong. You are certainly entitled to that, but I still disagree with you though. I don't think your wand analogy applies here.

As quoted by the PHB2 (pg. 88):
"Divine feats are the province of those who are able to turn or rebuke undead. Instead of attempting to affect an undead creature, you expend a turn or rebuke undead attempt to trigger the benefit of a divine feat you have."

As quoted by Complete Divine (pg. 77):
"...the force that powers a divine feat is the ability to channel positive or negative energy to turn or rebuke undead. Each use of a divine feat costs a character a minimum of one turn or rebuke attempt from her number of attempts each day. ... Turning or rebuking undead is a standard action (unless you have a special ability that says otherwise)."

Divine feats are special and are a result of expending a turn undead attempt, but instead you direct that energy towards the feat, which is why the action for using such a feat is the same as using a turn attempt (a standard action), unless specifically stated otherwise in the feat description.

It seems that is the reason the description goes into detail about what it takes for a turn attempt - otherwise it would simply state "take away an attempt and follow the feat description". Instead, it thoroughly explains what drives the feat and that it is based on the same action as the turn attempt, unless you have an ability that changes that action - which would include a Quicken Turning feat.

If you can shorten the action for the turn attempt, then you can shorten the action for the Divine feat.
Radijs
05-07-07, 02:27 PM Turning undead isn't the same thing as expending a turning attempt.
Its as simple as that.
ravidubey
05-07-07, 06:46 PM Turning undead isn't the same thing as expending a turning attempt.
Its as simple as that.

Nail on head. Quickened turning only applies to the action of turning, not expending a turn attempt by any other means.

Most divine feats are invoked as free actions anyway because they are used to power or augment an action separate from turning altogether.

If you were trying to get QT to quicken the action augmented by divine feats, then that's pure cheese!

For example, Domain Spontaneity allows a cleric to spontaneously cast a non-domain spell slot as a domain spell by expending a turn attempt. The casting of the spell is a standard action as is normal, and the turn attempt is invoked as a free action.

If you were trying to get the spontaneous spell cast as a quickened action because you have QT, then :rolleyes: .
Mimer_Silverfist
06-05-07, 06:45 PM I really don't understand the replies on this post.
Oskur simply asked, if anyone had seen anything official that stated how to interpret the description.
He did not ask how to be told by other players to understand the description and how they want him to understand it.

Sorry Oskur, I have not found any places where Wizards Of The Coast or similar official forum tells exactly how to understand it.

Regards
Mimer Silverfist.;)

We should take care not to make the intellect our God, it has of course powerful muscles but no personality.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Oskur 05-07-07, 11:37 AM	Yes, I realize this subject has been discussed in the past from all the references I've found, but I have yet to see anything official on it. Could someone point me in the right direction please? The way I see it is that the description of Divine Feats in Complete Divine (as copied word for word in other sources as well) states that the Divine feats derive it's abilility directly from Turning Undead attempts which are a standard action, thus activating the feat is also a standard action (unless otherwise stated). My understanding of that description is that if the Turning Undead attempt is Quickened, then so would the activation of any feat with a standard action (such as Divine Vigor or Divine Shield). Has this been officially confirmed or denied? Please advise. Thanks
Merestil Haye 05-07-07, 12:25 PM	Yes, I realize this subject has been discussed in the past from all the references I've found, but I have yet to see anything official on it. Could someone point me in the right direction please? The way I see it is that the description of Divine Feats in Complete Divine (as copied word for word in other sources as well) states that the Divine feats derive it's abilility directly from Turning Undead attempts which are a standard action, thus activating the feat is also a standard action (unless otherwise stated). My understanding of that description is that if the Turning Undead attempt is Quickened, then so would the activation of any feat with a standard action (such as Divine Vigor or Divine Shield). Has this been officially confirmed or denied? Please advise. ThanksYour understanding is wrong. Turning undead is a standard action. It is so listed on the Standard Actions table in the Combat section of the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions). Using a Divine feat such as Divine Shield is not the Turn Undead action, but a separate special action called Use Feat, defined here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#miscellaneousActions ). You may only apply Quicken Turning to the Turn Undead action and not the Use Feat action. This is the same reason why (for example) you cannot apply Spell Focus (Evocation) to a Fireball spell cast from a wand.
Radijs 05-07-07, 02:06 PM	Your understanding is wrong. Turning undead is a standard action. It is so listed on the Standard Actions table in the Combat section of the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions). Using a Divine feat such as Divine Shield is not the Turn Undead action, but a separate special action called Use Feat, defined here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#miscellaneousActions ). You may only apply Quicken Turning to the Turn Undead action and not the Use Feat action. This is the same reason why (for example) you cannot apply Spell Focus (Evocation) to a Fireball spell cast from a wand. QFT: Quoted for truth
Oskur 05-07-07, 02:09 PM	Your understanding is wrong. Turning undead is a standard action. It is so listed on the Standard Actions table in the Combat section of the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions). Using a Divine feat such as Divine Shield is not the Turn Undead action, but a separate special action called Use Feat, defined here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#miscellaneousActions ). You may only apply Quicken Turning to the Turn Undead action and not the Use Feat action. This is the same reason why (for example) you cannot apply Spell Focus (Evocation) to a Fireball spell cast from a wand. So, your opinion is that my opinion is wrong. You are certainly entitled to that, but I still disagree with you though. I don't think your wand analogy applies here. As quoted by the PHB2 (pg. 88): "Divine feats are the province of those who are able to turn or rebuke undead. Instead of attempting to affect an undead creature, you expend a turn or rebuke undead attempt to trigger the benefit of a divine feat you have." As quoted by Complete Divine (pg. 77): "...the force that powers a divine feat is the ability to channel positive or negative energy to turn or rebuke undead. Each use of a divine feat costs a character a minimum of one turn or rebuke attempt from her number of attempts each day. ... Turning or rebuking undead is a standard action (unless you have a special ability that says otherwise)." Divine feats are special and are a result of expending a turn undead attempt, but instead you direct that energy towards the feat, which is why the action for using such a feat is the same as using a turn attempt (a standard action), unless specifically stated otherwise in the feat description. It seems that is the reason the description goes into detail about what it takes for a turn attempt - otherwise it would simply state "take away an attempt and follow the feat description". Instead, it thoroughly explains what drives the feat and that it is based on the same action as the turn attempt, unless you have an ability that changes that action - which would include a Quicken Turning feat. If you can shorten the action for the turn attempt, then you can shorten the action for the Divine feat.
Radijs 05-07-07, 02:27 PM	Turning undead isn't the same thing as expending a turning attempt. Its as simple as that.
ravidubey 05-07-07, 06:46 PM	Turning undead isn't the same thing as expending a turning attempt. Its as simple as that. Nail on head. Quickened turning only applies to the action of turning, not expending a turn attempt by any other means. Most divine feats are invoked as free actions anyway because they are used to power or augment an action separate from turning altogether. If you were trying to get QT to quicken the action augmented by divine feats, then that's pure cheese! For example, Domain Spontaneity allows a cleric to spontaneously cast a non-domain spell slot as a domain spell by expending a turn attempt. The casting of the spell is a standard action as is normal, and the turn attempt is invoked as a free action. If you were trying to get the spontaneous spell cast as a quickened action because you have QT, then :rolleyes: .
Mimer_Silverfist 06-05-07, 06:45 PM	I really don't understand the replies on this post. Oskur simply asked, if anyone had seen anything official that stated how to interpret the description. He did not ask how to be told by other players to understand the description and how they want him to understand it. Sorry Oskur, I have not found any places where Wizards Of The Coast or similar official forum tells exactly how to understand it. Regards Mimer Silverfist.;) We should take care not to make the intellect our God, it has of course powerful muscles but no personality.