Divine Metamagic questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Divine Metamagic questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
chatterofthesquirrel
03-22-07, 09:54 PM Hey all,

I'm in the process of building a melee-oriented cleric, and had a few questions regarding the Divine Metamagic feat.

1. Are other turning abilities (such as the Earth domain's ability to turn air elementals or rebuke earth) usable in paying for the feat's 'cost'?

2. Can part of the cost of a metamagic feat be paid for by turning attempts, and the rest by spell levels? For example, if i had 4 turn attempts for the day, could i prepare a Persistent spell by using up a spell slot 2 levels higher (Persistent being a 6-spell-level adjustment)?

3. Which is more valuable, pairing Divine Metamagic with Persistent Spell or Quicken Spell? The former uses up an additional feat slot, and being Dwarf my feats are few and far between.

Any input would be appreciated, many thanks.
Tempest Stormwind
03-22-07, 10:01 PM Hey all,

I'm in the process of building a melee-oriented cleric, and had a few questions regarding the Divine Metamagic feat.

1. Are other turning abilities (such as the Earth domain's ability to turn air elementals or rebuke earth) usable in paying for the feat's 'cost'?

2. Can part of the cost of a metamagic feat be paid for by turning attempts, and the rest by spell levels? For example, if i had 4 turn attempts for the day, could i prepare a Persistent spell by using up a spell slot 2 levels higher (Persistent being a 6-spell-level adjustment)?Both of these are No.

It's specifically turn/rebuke UNDEAD. This was, I believe, clarified in the FAQ on the main site.

And since the feat only lets you pay full price, it's all or none. Don't despair if your turns aren't enough, though -- crack open Libris Mortis and look at the Nightstick.3. Which is more valuable, pairing Divine Metamagic with Persistent Spell or Quicken Spell? The former uses up an additional feat slot, and being Dwarf my feats are few and far between.They serve similar purposes; Divine Meta (Quicken) is generally considered a fine sub for the all-powerful Divine Meta (Persistent) if your DM doesn't allow Persistent. The Planning domain grants the Extend Spell you need.
Kresalak
03-22-07, 10:03 PM Quicken also lets you throw out offensive spells without interupting your full attack. I suggest getting both and making your armor out of Nightsticks.
chatterofthesquirrel
03-22-07, 10:28 PM Quicken also lets you throw out offensive spells without interupting your full attack. I suggest getting both and making your armor out of Nightsticks.

Is there any easily-referrable reference for Nightsticks, so i have something to show my DM i'm not just making up items :p I've over-extended my budget on supplementary rulebooks for this month already :p

Also, as my character will be starting at 6th level, i was considering the following two options for feat advancement:

Option 1
1 Extra Turning
3 Quicken Spell
6 Divine Meta: Quicken

Option 2
1 Power Attack
3 Quicken Spell
6 Divine Meta: Quicken

The former will allow me two quickened spells a day (Cha 12 = 4 turn attempts normally). The latter will mostly come into effect at lvl-7, when Divine Power kicks my attack bonus high enough that i can afford the -5 to hit to gain +10 to damage.

And which spells would be best to Quicken? Buffs, prepared heals, or direct damage?
Merestil Haye
03-22-07, 11:05 PM Is there any easily-referrable reference for Nightsticks, so i have something to show my DM i'm not just making up items :p I've over-extended my budget on supplementary rulebooks for this month already :p

Also, as my character will be starting at 6th level, i was considering the following two options for feat advancement:

Option 1
1 Extra Turning
3 Quicken Spell
6 Divine Meta: Quicken

Option 2
1 Power Attack
3 Quicken Spell
6 Divine Meta: Quicken

The former will allow me two quickened spells a day (Cha 12 = 4 turn attempts normally). The latter will mostly come into effect at lvl-7, when Divine Power kicks my attack bonus high enough that i can afford the -5 to hit to gain +10 to damage.

And which spells would be best to Quicken? Buffs, prepared heals, or direct damage?Neither work very well, as you need 10 turn attempts in order to use Quicken twice in a day. You'll need a +4 Charisma buff asap to make it work.

Of course you'd need 14 attempts for two Persistent spells.
chatterofthesquirrel
03-22-07, 11:23 PM Neither work very well, as you need 10 turn attempts in order to use Quicken twice in a day. You'll need a +4 Charisma buff asap to make it work.

Of course you'd need 14 attempts for two Persistent spells.

..why would i need 10 and 14? Unless i'm missing something, Quicken uses a spell slot 4 levels higher, and Persistent 6 levels higher, meaning 8 and 12 turning attempts to use each twice daily, respectively..
Merestil Haye
03-23-07, 06:22 AM ..why would i need 10 and 14? Unless i'm missing something, Quicken uses a spell slot 4 levels higher, and Persistent 6 levels higher, meaning 8 and 12 turning attempts to use each twice daily, respectively..The feat specifies that you must spend 1 plus one per spell slot increase, not (as you seem to think) one per spell slot increase.
Zumarai
03-23-07, 06:34 AM I know it's a house-rule, but since I use the Turning variant from CD, which works exactly like the spirit shaman's Chastise Spirits ability, I let any class with any sort of Turning ability substitute it for the Turn Undead prerequisite for Divine Matamagic.

Why should clerics get all the fun, I mean, it's not like they don't have enough going for them already?

It also lets the spirit shaman take feats like Quicken Turning (chastise).

...But than again, I find the standard Turning rules to be a horrendous, antiquated, clunky holdover from previous editions.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chatterofthesquirrel 03-22-07, 09:54 PM	Hey all, I'm in the process of building a melee-oriented cleric, and had a few questions regarding the Divine Metamagic feat. 1. Are other turning abilities (such as the Earth domain's ability to turn air elementals or rebuke earth) usable in paying for the feat's 'cost'? 2. Can part of the cost of a metamagic feat be paid for by turning attempts, and the rest by spell levels? For example, if i had 4 turn attempts for the day, could i prepare a Persistent spell by using up a spell slot 2 levels higher (Persistent being a 6-spell-level adjustment)? 3. Which is more valuable, pairing Divine Metamagic with Persistent Spell or Quicken Spell? The former uses up an additional feat slot, and being Dwarf my feats are few and far between. Any input would be appreciated, many thanks.
Tempest Stormwind 03-22-07, 10:01 PM	Hey all, I'm in the process of building a melee-oriented cleric, and had a few questions regarding the Divine Metamagic feat. 1. Are other turning abilities (such as the Earth domain's ability to turn air elementals or rebuke earth) usable in paying for the feat's 'cost'? 2. Can part of the cost of a metamagic feat be paid for by turning attempts, and the rest by spell levels? For example, if i had 4 turn attempts for the day, could i prepare a Persistent spell by using up a spell slot 2 levels higher (Persistent being a 6-spell-level adjustment)?Both of these are No. It's specifically turn/rebuke UNDEAD. This was, I believe, clarified in the FAQ on the main site. And since the feat only lets you pay full price, it's all or none. Don't despair if your turns aren't enough, though -- crack open Libris Mortis and look at the Nightstick.3. Which is more valuable, pairing Divine Metamagic with Persistent Spell or Quicken Spell? The former uses up an additional feat slot, and being Dwarf my feats are few and far between.They serve similar purposes; Divine Meta (Quicken) is generally considered a fine sub for the all-powerful Divine Meta (Persistent) if your DM doesn't allow Persistent. The Planning domain grants the Extend Spell you need.
Kresalak 03-22-07, 10:03 PM	Quicken also lets you throw out offensive spells without interupting your full attack. I suggest getting both and making your armor out of Nightsticks.
chatterofthesquirrel 03-22-07, 10:28 PM	Quicken also lets you throw out offensive spells without interupting your full attack. I suggest getting both and making your armor out of Nightsticks. Is there any easily-referrable reference for Nightsticks, so i have something to show my DM i'm not just making up items :p I've over-extended my budget on supplementary rulebooks for this month already :p Also, as my character will be starting at 6th level, i was considering the following two options for feat advancement: Option 1 1 Extra Turning 3 Quicken Spell 6 Divine Meta: Quicken Option 2 1 Power Attack 3 Quicken Spell 6 Divine Meta: Quicken The former will allow me two quickened spells a day (Cha 12 = 4 turn attempts normally). The latter will mostly come into effect at lvl-7, when Divine Power kicks my attack bonus high enough that i can afford the -5 to hit to gain +10 to damage. And which spells would be best to Quicken? Buffs, prepared heals, or direct damage?
Merestil Haye 03-22-07, 11:05 PM	Is there any easily-referrable reference for Nightsticks, so i have something to show my DM i'm not just making up items :p I've over-extended my budget on supplementary rulebooks for this month already :p Also, as my character will be starting at 6th level, i was considering the following two options for feat advancement: Option 1 1 Extra Turning 3 Quicken Spell 6 Divine Meta: Quicken Option 2 1 Power Attack 3 Quicken Spell 6 Divine Meta: Quicken The former will allow me two quickened spells a day (Cha 12 = 4 turn attempts normally). The latter will mostly come into effect at lvl-7, when Divine Power kicks my attack bonus high enough that i can afford the -5 to hit to gain +10 to damage. And which spells would be best to Quicken? Buffs, prepared heals, or direct damage?Neither work very well, as you need 10 turn attempts in order to use Quicken twice in a day. You'll need a +4 Charisma buff asap to make it work. Of course you'd need 14 attempts for two Persistent spells.
chatterofthesquirrel 03-22-07, 11:23 PM	Neither work very well, as you need 10 turn attempts in order to use Quicken twice in a day. You'll need a +4 Charisma buff asap to make it work. Of course you'd need 14 attempts for two Persistent spells. ..why would i need 10 and 14? Unless i'm missing something, Quicken uses a spell slot 4 levels higher, and Persistent 6 levels higher, meaning 8 and 12 turning attempts to use each twice daily, respectively..
Merestil Haye 03-23-07, 06:22 AM	..why would i need 10 and 14? Unless i'm missing something, Quicken uses a spell slot 4 levels higher, and Persistent 6 levels higher, meaning 8 and 12 turning attempts to use each twice daily, respectively..The feat specifies that you must spend 1 plus one per spell slot increase, not (as you seem to think) one per spell slot increase.
Zumarai 03-23-07, 06:34 AM	I know it's a house-rule, but since I use the Turning variant from CD, which works exactly like the spirit shaman's Chastise Spirits ability, I let any class with any sort of Turning ability substitute it for the Turn Undead prerequisite for Divine Matamagic. Why should clerics get all the fun, I mean, it's not like they don't have enough going for them already? It also lets the spirit shaman take feats like Quicken Turning (chastise). ...But than again, I find the standard Turning rules to be a horrendous, antiquated, clunky holdover from previous editions.