Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sgt_Centurious 04-27-07, 10:56 PM	If so, please cite me a source & rate of progression. I can't seem to find anything other than "Refer to the MM entry" in the PHB. In the MM table 4.1, it states that animal gain skill points. There is no progression for feats. Thanks for any help.
runestar 04-27-07, 11:05 PM	Unlike the familiar, they actually get extra HD, which may grant them extra feats if it is a multiple of 3.:)
Sgt_Centurious 04-27-07, 11:16 PM	Unlike the familiar, they actually get extra HD, which may grant them extra feats if it is a multiple of 3.:) Thanks but where does it state this? Also, what feats are available to them?:confused:
runestar 04-27-07, 11:26 PM	In theory, they can take any feat so long as they meet the requirements, though some feats may not make sense from a thematic POV (such as weapon proficiency: armour spikes) and your dm may not allow them on such a basis. Reread the section on animal companion basics, under bonus HD. Specifically, you are looking out for this line.:) An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.
Nezkrul 04-27-07, 11:33 PM	really, the only thing an animal companion doesn't get is increased size with its hit dice.
Sgt_Centurious 04-27-07, 11:38 PM	In theory, they can take any feat so long as they meet the requirements, though some feats may not make sense from a thematic POV (such as weapon proficiency: armour spikes) and your dm may not allow them on such a basis. Reread the section on animal companion basics, under bonus HD. Specifically, you are looking out for this line.:) I found that part & it further refers me to the MM for details but again, in table 4.1, there is nothing mentioning feats as the critter gets more HD, just more skill points. It *does* mention something about humanoid monsters with character classes gaining feats.
Vegepygmy 04-27-07, 11:45 PM	I found that part & it further refers me to the MM for details but again, in table 4.1, there is nothing mentioning feats as the critter gets more HD, just more skill points.Look at the bottom of Table 4-1: "All types have a number of feats equal to 1 + 1 per 3 Hit Dice."
runestar 04-28-07, 12:19 AM	Ah...the joys of sourcebook hopping just to find the relevant ruling...:P
Sgt_Centurious 04-28-07, 12:21 AM	Look at the bottom of Table 4-1: "All types have a number of feats equal to 1 + 1 per 3 Hit Dice." Sweet, thanks
Garonak 04-28-07, 04:58 AM	Ah...the joys of sourcebook hopping just to find the relevant ruling...:P You should try ShadowRun... There's no rule that doesn't expand over several chapters...
Rulebook 04-28-07, 06:47 AM	i prefer Paranoia. knowledge of the rules is Treason.
Bedevere 04-28-07, 08:15 AM	i prefer Paranoia. knowledge of the rules is Treason. That sounds like.... a rule, friend citizen. *Locks and loads*
Spellfire_junkie 04-28-07, 02:53 PM	Hell Yes!! The Computer is our friend!
Nom 04-28-07, 06:24 PM	Also note that feats and skill points are standard rules. Everything gets 1 feat + 1 fear per 3 HD. In contrast, the size rules are a special rule for "advancing monsters by racial HD", not a normal rule. The quirk with animal companions is what they don't get; namely the normal +1 ability per 4 levels. This is replaced by the +1 Dex/+1 Str per category.
Velcro Zipper 04-28-07, 06:38 PM	Please refer to page 36 of your Player's Handbook under the heading of Bonus HD for Animal Companions. There you will find all the proof you need that AnCos receive feats and skill points as they increase in hit dice.
Vegepygmy 04-29-07, 12:51 AM	The quirk with animal companions is what they don't get; namely the normal +1 ability per 4 levels. This is replaced by the +1 Dex/+1 Str per category.Where is it stated that it's a replacement?
Nom 04-29-07, 07:02 AM	Where is it stated that it's a replacement?It explicitly says that it gets HD, hp (inc Con), BAB + BSB, feats and skills, many of which are qualified with "as normal". The one "normal" thing missing is the 1 per 4 ability increase. One could assume it was omitted by accident, but that seems odd considering that everything else is explicitly mentioned and there is already an ability increase included.
runestar 04-29-07, 08:24 AM	The interesting thing is that if you look at certain monsters in assorted MMs, like the barghest and redcap, which have an alternate mode of advancement granting them extra bonuses over and above the typical advancement rules, they are also clearly missing the +1 stat boost typically accorded every 4th HD. I guess this could be construed as some sort of trend...:P
Razorstorm 04-29-07, 09:59 AM	I've always ruled that Animal Comps got the extra +1, simply because it doesn't state that they don't. And it fits the style of the animal companion being superior to others of it's relevant HD. Admittedly, the +1/+1 does it, but not much, and there's no hope of increasing the Con, for a companion, which is depressing. Just my opinion. Razorstorm
Riplox 04-29-07, 01:34 PM	Sooo...if the companion gets extra feats as it gains HD (like it should), does that mean I can get it to take Vow of Poverty? :D
Yadot 04-29-07, 03:26 PM	No, because it can't roleplay being Exalted. (I disagree with using roleplaying as a balancing stick, but thats the way the BoED was written.) Can you imagen what would happen if the animal companion tried to give away money? *Children skipping along forest path* *Druid's Dire Bear jumps out with jewels and coins in mouth* "AHHeeee Killer bear!" "Ruff growl, growl" *Village leader gathers mob to kill ransacking beast* "There it is! Torch it!" *Vow of Nonviolence taking bear dies in onslaught* *Non-exalted Druid master swarms village with foresty vengence*
Vegepygmy 04-29-07, 08:05 PM	It explicitly says that it gets HD, hp (inc Con), BAB + BSB, feats and skills, many of which are qualified with "as normal". The one "normal" thing missing is the 1 per 4 ability increase. One could assume it was omitted by accident, but that seems odd considering that everything else is explicitly mentioned and there is already an ability increase included.Well, you know what they say about assumptions. ;) I assume they didn't mention it because it's just awkward to write: "...and the +1 improvement to any one ability score that all creatures gain for every 4 HD they acquire." But who knows? (That's one of the reasons I really hate the 3rd-edition practice of repeating the same rules over and over and over again in different places. If it's been established that 1-10 are true in every case unless specifically exempted, and 1-10 have been reprinted in twenty different places, and then we have a twenty-first place where 1-6 and 8-10 are reprinted but no mention is made of 7, are we supposed to read that as specifically exempting 7? Or is it just a case of some layout editor trying to make his page look nice? We can never know.)
runestar 04-29-07, 10:27 PM	Sooo...if the companion gets extra feats as it gains HD (like it should), does that mean I can get it to take Vow of Poverty? VOP requires that the recipient be good, but animals are neutral at best. If you could take the exalted companion feat, then yes in theory, but everything ultimately boils down to dm fiat. It shouldn't be too hard to roleplay VOP for them, since they only have to donate their share of treasure for a worthy cause. And since animal companions do not get a share of the spoils, that works out to be a nice big fat zero...:D
liquidhypnotic 04-30-07, 04:31 AM	The fact that VoP came up during a discussion about ANIMAL COMPANIONS really drives home the point in the beginning of the DoED: "intended for mature players..." 99% of all players who favor VoP need fierce slaps upside the head. This is a fact.
runestar 04-30-07, 07:31 AM	Please, we all know the BOED was meant solely as a munchkin's wet dream, nothing more...:P
liquidhypnotic 04-30-07, 10:22 PM	That's certainly what it turned into. Heh, I wonder if anyone has ever run VoP the way it was intended to be run, EVER...
runestar 04-30-07, 11:11 PM	VOP has so many loose ends that were never resolved. I am not sure if there really is a definite way it which it "ought to have been run".:(
UnknownMourner 05-01-07, 12:04 AM	Animal Companions/Polymorph/Wildshape etc, are some of the more horribly tedious rules chunks in the game, both in terms of the minute details and bringing the pace to a screeching halt. Somewhere along the way DnD went from one of the easiest games to the most complicated. I hope if they ever have a do-over this area gets revisited big-time. Player: "I polymorph my animal companion into this, while I wildshape into that." DM: "God...damn...you. OK, the rest of you might as well make the pizza run while we figure out just exactly what their stats are. Hand me the MM, the PHB, and the MM where that creature is and the other one where that other thing is, oh, and we'll need Saveage Species." Next turn: "I wildshape into one of these." DM's teeth can be heard gnashing. Yes, I realize the CO types have it all memorized, but for the once a week, or twice a month player, this can get rough.
runestar 05-01-07, 01:38 AM	I always thought it was common courtesy for the player utilizing wildshape/polymorph to at least have the custom stats on hand at the start of the game. No stats? No game, because I sure am not going through the trouble of looking them up for you...:P