Do Jump and Tumble Stack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Do Jump and Tumble Stack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Disco
06-06-07, 08:47 PM Last gaming session a PC tried to jump off the back of a flying rhino (long story) from 20ft up. He had a huge Jump and Tumble check, and wanted to use them both to reduce his fall by 20ft (10ft + 10ft) but everyone was confused as to whether he could make two checks to get the fall to 0ft or could only use one to get the fall to 10ft.

What are the correct rules?
InkBlot
06-06-07, 09:40 PM Yes, he can use both Jump and Tumble to reduce the damage from the same fall. You use Jump at the start of the fall, to prepare yourself for landing. You use Tumble at the end of the fall, to roll with the impact.

Falling 20 feet isn't really as bad as you might think. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28WxYPy37VQ)
KurenaiYami
06-06-07, 09:57 PM Falling 20 feet isn't really as bad as you might think. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28WxYPy37VQ)

I really find it hard to believe that that fall is 20 feet. Looks closer to 10-12.
MerlintheTuna
06-07-07, 12:41 AM For the record, Tumble can reduce falling damage by more than 10 ft just by itself. As per Complete Adventurer pg 103, each 15 points you get on your Tumble check reduced fall damage by 10 feet. So rolling a 30 would reduce the effective fall distance by 20 feet, 45 would drop it by 30 feet, etc. And not that this should be coming up often, but the SRD lists a Tumble check of 100 as allowing a character to completely ignore falling damage. (It's in the Epic Skills section.)
Knightblde
06-07-07, 09:41 AM I really find it hard to believe that that fall is 20 feet. Looks closer to 10-12.

LOL If he stuck his arms way up in the air, his figernails MIGHT have reached 20 feet!

At maximum, he is at 12' in a controlled jump, which is what, a 5DC to do with no damage?

20 feet would equal the third story of a building. The top of the first would be 10. The top of the second would be 20.
Father Dale
06-07-07, 11:50 AM I think they both can apply. This presupposes that the character is actively jumping in order to use the jump skill, rather than accidentally falling or getting pushed off from a great height.

We've played this way in our games and it hasn't been a problem. I mean, your only talking about 1d6 in damage (or nonlethal damage).
Vegepygmy
06-07-07, 02:18 PM What are the correct rules?A DC 15 Jump check or DC 15 Tumble check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage.

It sounds to me like you choose whether to use your Jump or Tumble skill, not both, but a generous DM could allow both checks to be made without violating the letter of the rules.

What is clear, however, is that the benefit doesn't stack. A successful check negates all damage from the first 10 feet fallen, not the first 1d6 damage taken. So if you make both your Jump and Tumble checks, the damage from the first 10 feet fallen is simply negated twice. The damage from the second 10 feet fallen is twice converted to nonlethal damage, and the damage from the third (and fourth, and fifth, etc.) 10 feet fallen is unaffected.
tarkin
06-07-07, 03:41 PM I really find it hard to believe that that fall is 20 feet. Looks closer to 10-12.

You guys did not pay attention. Yes, I know the house LOOKS like it is one story, but if you look carefully you see that what appears to be a short stairs is actually a LONG stairs, and that the house rests on top of a garage, not a mere 3 ft cinder block footing.

Net Net, That was a two story drop, not a one story drop. Minimum internal ceilng heights are about 8 ft, plus about one ft between floors, and at least another foot for the roof = 18 ft.

If the house has good ceilings, instead of small ones, that makes 9 or 10 ft rooms = 20 or 22 ft drop.

To knightblde:

three story drop would be be a minium of 9f * 3 = 27 ft, far more than the 20 ft drop you claimed.
InkBlot
06-07-07, 04:52 PM I really find it hard to believe that that fall is 20 feet. Looks closer to 10-12.
Fair 'nuf. It was late, and I look at the video very closely. I was getting impatient after browsing through parkour videos trying to find one that had a drop that was anywhere near 20 feet and showed it clearly. There were some that might have had 20 foot drops, but the cameraman was almost always in a bad place (on the roof looking down, etc).

Here's a guy very carefully jumping down 15 feet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1StCC7ZEKI). See how he lowers himself a bit first and then jumps? That's how I imagine the "jumping down" rules work.

In this video, at about 1:09 the guy jumps off a tower that looks like it's about 20 feet tall. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEeqHj3Nj2c&mode=related&search=) The lens effect is annoying, but when he's standing on top, and when he stands after landing, he looks to be about 1/4 the height of the tower. Edit: At 3:00 a guy jumps off of a 3rd floor balcony, and lands safely on the grass below.

Jumping down is an active use of a skill. You have to use your own actions to jump down. If you get bullrushed off of a cliff, then you can not use the Jump skill to reduce the falling damage.

Tumbling to reduce falling damage is a reactive use of a skill. It doesn't take up your actions, and you can do it in an emergency situation like getting bullrushed off of a cliff.

I can't find anything to even suggest that you can't both Jump Down and use Tumble to reduce falling damage. It logical that you should be able to do both. For years I played under a hard-nose rules-lawyer DM who liked to nerf Jump (a knee-jerk reaction to my monk's 40+ Jump modifier), and even he allowed both a Jump check and a Tumble check to reduce damage from the same fall.

Vegepygmy, is that blue text supposed to be a quote? If so, what page did you see it on?
Optimator
06-07-07, 06:05 PM And not that this should be coming up often, but the SRD lists a Tumble check of 100 as allowing a character to completely ignore falling damage. (It's in the Epic Skills section.)

Reminds me of Link.
InkBlot
06-07-07, 07:59 PM As a huge Zelda nerd, I must point out that Link will still take damage from a high enough fall even if you hold forward to roll with it.
Nom
06-07-07, 11:39 PM Vegepygmy, is that blue text supposed to be a quote? If so, what page did you see it on?DMG pg 303.

You'll note that in the final example (30 ft.) they had adequate opportunity to have the PC both Jump and Tumble, but didn't.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Disco 06-06-07, 08:47 PM	Last gaming session a PC tried to jump off the back of a flying rhino (long story) from 20ft up. He had a huge Jump and Tumble check, and wanted to use them both to reduce his fall by 20ft (10ft + 10ft) but everyone was confused as to whether he could make two checks to get the fall to 0ft or could only use one to get the fall to 10ft. What are the correct rules?
InkBlot 06-06-07, 09:40 PM	Yes, he can use both Jump and Tumble to reduce the damage from the same fall. You use Jump at the start of the fall, to prepare yourself for landing. You use Tumble at the end of the fall, to roll with the impact. Falling 20 feet isn't really as bad as you might think. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28WxYPy37VQ)
KurenaiYami 06-06-07, 09:57 PM	Falling 20 feet isn't really as bad as you might think. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28WxYPy37VQ) I really find it hard to believe that that fall is 20 feet. Looks closer to 10-12.
MerlintheTuna 06-07-07, 12:41 AM	For the record, Tumble can reduce falling damage by more than 10 ft just by itself. As per Complete Adventurer pg 103, each 15 points you get on your Tumble check reduced fall damage by 10 feet. So rolling a 30 would reduce the effective fall distance by 20 feet, 45 would drop it by 30 feet, etc. And not that this should be coming up often, but the SRD lists a Tumble check of 100 as allowing a character to completely ignore falling damage. (It's in the Epic Skills section.)
Knightblde 06-07-07, 09:41 AM	I really find it hard to believe that that fall is 20 feet. Looks closer to 10-12. LOL If he stuck his arms way up in the air, his figernails MIGHT have reached 20 feet! At maximum, he is at 12' in a controlled jump, which is what, a 5DC to do with no damage? 20 feet would equal the third story of a building. The top of the first would be 10. The top of the second would be 20.
Father Dale 06-07-07, 11:50 AM	I think they both can apply. This presupposes that the character is actively jumping in order to use the jump skill, rather than accidentally falling or getting pushed off from a great height. We've played this way in our games and it hasn't been a problem. I mean, your only talking about 1d6 in damage (or nonlethal damage).
Vegepygmy 06-07-07, 02:18 PM	What are the correct rules?A DC 15 Jump check or DC 15 Tumble check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage. It sounds to me like you choose whether to use your Jump or Tumble skill, not both, but a generous DM could allow both checks to be made without violating the letter of the rules. What is clear, however, is that the benefit doesn't stack. A successful check negates all damage from the first 10 feet fallen, not the first 1d6 damage taken. So if you make both your Jump and Tumble checks, the damage from the first 10 feet fallen is simply negated twice. The damage from the second 10 feet fallen is twice converted to nonlethal damage, and the damage from the third (and fourth, and fifth, etc.) 10 feet fallen is unaffected.
tarkin 06-07-07, 03:41 PM	I really find it hard to believe that that fall is 20 feet. Looks closer to 10-12. You guys did not pay attention. Yes, I know the house LOOKS like it is one story, but if you look carefully you see that what appears to be a short stairs is actually a LONG stairs, and that the house rests on top of a garage, not a mere 3 ft cinder block footing. Net Net, That was a two story drop, not a one story drop. Minimum internal ceilng heights are about 8 ft, plus about one ft between floors, and at least another foot for the roof = 18 ft. If the house has good ceilings, instead of small ones, that makes 9 or 10 ft rooms = 20 or 22 ft drop. To knightblde: three story drop would be be a minium of 9f * 3 = 27 ft, far more than the 20 ft drop you claimed.
InkBlot 06-07-07, 04:52 PM	I really find it hard to believe that that fall is 20 feet. Looks closer to 10-12. Fair 'nuf. It was late, and I look at the video very closely. I was getting impatient after browsing through parkour videos trying to find one that had a drop that was anywhere near 20 feet and showed it clearly. There were some that might have had 20 foot drops, but the cameraman was almost always in a bad place (on the roof looking down, etc). Here's a guy very carefully jumping down 15 feet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1StCC7ZEKI). See how he lowers himself a bit first and then jumps? That's how I imagine the "jumping down" rules work. In this video, at about 1:09 the guy jumps off a tower that looks like it's about 20 feet tall. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEeqHj3Nj2c&mode=related&search=) The lens effect is annoying, but when he's standing on top, and when he stands after landing, he looks to be about 1/4 the height of the tower. Edit: At 3:00 a guy jumps off of a 3rd floor balcony, and lands safely on the grass below. Jumping down is an active use of a skill. You have to use your own actions to jump down. If you get bullrushed off of a cliff, then you can not use the Jump skill to reduce the falling damage. Tumbling to reduce falling damage is a reactive use of a skill. It doesn't take up your actions, and you can do it in an emergency situation like getting bullrushed off of a cliff. I can't find anything to even suggest that you can't both Jump Down and use Tumble to reduce falling damage. It logical that you should be able to do both. For years I played under a hard-nose rules-lawyer DM who liked to nerf Jump (a knee-jerk reaction to my monk's 40+ Jump modifier), and even he allowed both a Jump check and a Tumble check to reduce damage from the same fall. Vegepygmy, is that blue text supposed to be a quote? If so, what page did you see it on?
Optimator 06-07-07, 06:05 PM	And not that this should be coming up often, but the SRD lists a Tumble check of 100 as allowing a character to completely ignore falling damage. (It's in the Epic Skills section.) Reminds me of Link.
InkBlot 06-07-07, 07:59 PM	As a huge Zelda nerd, I must point out that Link will still take damage from a high enough fall even if you hold forward to roll with it.
Nom 06-07-07, 11:39 PM	Vegepygmy, is that blue text supposed to be a quote? If so, what page did you see it on?DMG pg 303. You'll note that in the final example (30 ft.) they had adequate opportunity to have the PC both Jump and Tumble, but didn't.