Do natural attacks count as 2-handed weapons? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Do natural attacks count as 2-handed weapons? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FrostHammer
03-01-07, 08:04 PM If something has a Bite attack, for example, or a Claws attack, does it get 2x the damage per point to to-hit lost with Power Attack?
Mahali Audran
03-01-07, 08:16 PM no.
FrostHammer
03-01-07, 08:24 PM crud :( Where in the MM does it clarify that?
foolishpuppy
03-01-07, 08:27 PM in the phb it states that unarmed strikes and natural weapons count as light weapons for all purposes except power attack, in which is counts as a one handed weapon, thus changing it 1 for 1. looking in power attack feat description and disarm description and monk unarmed strike should have all the information you need to clarify that.
StruckingFuggle
03-01-07, 08:28 PM Next, related question: Would a feat to allow Unarmed and Natural attacks to count as two-handed weapons for str and pa purposes be overpowered or nifty?
jaelis
03-01-07, 10:01 PM Giving monsters a 2:1 PA ratio would be wholly evil. Many of them have a lot of BAB to spare.

A feat allowing a 2:1 PA ratio for unarmed strikes is probably fine. (I think it is fine for 1H weapons as well.) The 1-1/2 Str thing might be too much... that's a big damage boost. Also, for either benefit you need to think carefully about how it works with off-hand attacks.
FrostHammer
03-01-07, 10:04 PM The reason why I asked for Natural attacks is becuase you get 1.5 times your Str bonus when you use your primary natural attack with no secondary attacks. I forgot where I saw it in the MM but that's how it is and I guess I assosiated that with 2-handed-ness.

In any case, Leap Attack will bump the PA ratio to 2:1 anyways, so...
ShinAkuma2
03-01-07, 10:26 PM A feat allowing a 2:1 PA ratio for unarmed strikes is probably fine.

I'm pretty sure that exists somewhere already. Hammerfist, or some such thing...You give up your Flurry of Blows to treat your unarmed strike as a two-handed weapon.

*uses Consolidated Lists* Races of Faerun, there we go. Look that up to get specifics.
StevenO
03-01-07, 11:29 PM I thought some creatures were allowed to use the 1.5xStr modifier but that is normally if they only have ONE attack not when they choose only to use a primary attack and forgo secondary attacks.

I don't think much is lost when letting the creature with only a single natural attack that normally gets the 1.5xStr Mod to damage use the 2:1 PA ratio. They may have a lot of BAB but it is still only a single attack.
StruckingFuggle
03-01-07, 11:51 PM I thought some creatures were allowed to use the 1.5xStr modifier but that is normally if they only have ONE attack not when they choose only to use a primary attack and forgo secondary attacks.

I don't think much is lost when letting the creature with only a single natural attack that normally gets the 1.5xStr Mod to damage use the 2:1 PA ratio. They may have a lot of BAB but it is still only a single attack.

Yeah, its a hugely different story when you have a Wyrm dragon with two-handed natural attacks, PA, Multiattack, and Improved Rapidstrike (claws) and/or (Wings)... :shifty:
Someone
03-01-07, 11:55 PM StevenO is correct, the damage dealt by a creature's particular natural attack is set upon creature creation. Some non-combatant herbivores don't get 1-1/2 Str to their single attack. They don't even get the 1. On the other end, a dragon's tail slap does 1-1/2 Str, even though its a secondary attack.
jaelis
03-01-07, 11:56 PM I don't know, you give something like a T-rex or a remorhaz a 2:1 PA ratio, that could be pretty nasty. Sounds bad to me, but nothing stopping you from trying it!
FrostHammer
03-02-07, 12:30 AM My pet dragon may end up doing more damage than me...sad...
runestar
03-02-07, 01:28 AM When in doubt, the FAQ is your friend.:)
Does a dragon with Power Attack add twice the number subtracted from attack rolls to damage rolls when making a tail slap?

No. While it shares some mathematical similarity to a twohanded weapon, the tail slap (or any other natural weapon that adds 1–1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls) doesn’t gain any other benefits applied to the use of a twohanded weapon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 08:04 PM	If something has a Bite attack, for example, or a Claws attack, does it get 2x the damage per point to to-hit lost with Power Attack?
Mahali Audran 03-01-07, 08:16 PM	no.
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 08:24 PM	crud :( Where in the MM does it clarify that?
foolishpuppy 03-01-07, 08:27 PM	in the phb it states that unarmed strikes and natural weapons count as light weapons for all purposes except power attack, in which is counts as a one handed weapon, thus changing it 1 for 1. looking in power attack feat description and disarm description and monk unarmed strike should have all the information you need to clarify that.
StruckingFuggle 03-01-07, 08:28 PM	Next, related question: Would a feat to allow Unarmed and Natural attacks to count as two-handed weapons for str and pa purposes be overpowered or nifty?
jaelis 03-01-07, 10:01 PM	Giving monsters a 2:1 PA ratio would be wholly evil. Many of them have a lot of BAB to spare. A feat allowing a 2:1 PA ratio for unarmed strikes is probably fine. (I think it is fine for 1H weapons as well.) The 1-1/2 Str thing might be too much... that's a big damage boost. Also, for either benefit you need to think carefully about how it works with off-hand attacks.
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 10:04 PM	The reason why I asked for Natural attacks is becuase you get 1.5 times your Str bonus when you use your primary natural attack with no secondary attacks. I forgot where I saw it in the MM but that's how it is and I guess I assosiated that with 2-handed-ness. In any case, Leap Attack will bump the PA ratio to 2:1 anyways, so...
ShinAkuma2 03-01-07, 10:26 PM	A feat allowing a 2:1 PA ratio for unarmed strikes is probably fine. I'm pretty sure that exists somewhere already. Hammerfist, or some such thing...You give up your Flurry of Blows to treat your unarmed strike as a two-handed weapon. uses Consolidated Lists Races of Faerun, there we go. Look that up to get specifics.
StevenO 03-01-07, 11:29 PM	I thought some creatures were allowed to use the 1.5xStr modifier but that is normally if they only have ONE attack not when they choose only to use a primary attack and forgo secondary attacks. I don't think much is lost when letting the creature with only a single natural attack that normally gets the 1.5xStr Mod to damage use the 2:1 PA ratio. They may have a lot of BAB but it is still only a single attack.
StruckingFuggle 03-01-07, 11:51 PM	I thought some creatures were allowed to use the 1.5xStr modifier but that is normally if they only have ONE attack not when they choose only to use a primary attack and forgo secondary attacks. I don't think much is lost when letting the creature with only a single natural attack that normally gets the 1.5xStr Mod to damage use the 2:1 PA ratio. They may have a lot of BAB but it is still only a single attack. Yeah, its a hugely different story when you have a Wyrm dragon with two-handed natural attacks, PA, Multiattack, and Improved Rapidstrike (claws) and/or (Wings)... :shifty:
Someone 03-01-07, 11:55 PM	StevenO is correct, the damage dealt by a creature's particular natural attack is set upon creature creation. Some non-combatant herbivores don't get 1-1/2 Str to their single attack. They don't even get the 1. On the other end, a dragon's tail slap does 1-1/2 Str, even though its a secondary attack.
jaelis 03-01-07, 11:56 PM	I don't know, you give something like a T-rex or a remorhaz a 2:1 PA ratio, that could be pretty nasty. Sounds bad to me, but nothing stopping you from trying it!
FrostHammer 03-02-07, 12:30 AM	My pet dragon may end up doing more damage than me...sad...
runestar 03-02-07, 01:28 AM	When in doubt, the FAQ is your friend.:) Does a dragon with Power Attack add twice the number subtracted from attack rolls to damage rolls when making a tail slap? No. While it shares some mathematical similarity to a twohanded weapon, the tail slap (or any other natural weapon that adds 1–1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls) doesn’t gain any other benefits applied to the use of a twohanded weapon.