Do you agree with Ask Wizards on Reserve feats? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Do you agree with Ask Wizards on Reserve feats? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RavingDork
05-24-07, 11:20 AM Dear Sage,

Does the ability to spontaneously cast domain spells granted by the Domain Spontaneity feat (Complete Divine) fulfill the spell requirement of the reserve feats from Complete Mage?

- Key

Not technically. Since you don’t have a list of spells known, only a list of spells prepared and the ability to cast some spells spontaneously, having the ability to spontaneously cast domain spells that fulfill the requirements for reserve feats does not fulfill the reserve feat requirements.

That said, there’s probably no harm in allowing it, and an unflinching DM confident in his ability to challenge you at every turn may have no problem hand-waving the technicality away.

Does anyone else disagree with the Wizard's ruling? Or is it just me?

Does anyone even understand what is being said? I had to sift through the wording of the answer to understand it correctly.
Vegepygmy
05-24-07, 11:35 AM I don't have the reserve feat rules in front of me. What do they say about a druid who can convert a prepared spell to spontaneously cast summon nature's ally using such spontaneous spells to power the summoning reserve feat?

If a druid can do so, Ask Wizards is wrong.
If a druid cannot do so, Ask Wizards is right.
starfire311
05-24-07, 04:06 PM I don't have the reserve feat rules in front of me. What do they say about a druid who can convert a prepared spell to spontaneously cast summon nature's ally using such spontaneous spells to power the summoning reserve feat?

If a druid can do so, Ask Wizards is wrong.
If a druid cannot do so, Ask Wizards is right.

I do think they take the stance that a cleric that can sponteaneously cast a cure spell meets the prerequisites for reserve feats, but I am not 100% sure, since i havent read it in awhile.
Mahali Audran
05-24-07, 04:23 PM I agree that being able to spontaneously cast a spell does not meet the requirements for Reserve Feats.

If you want to use the feat prepare the spell and don't cast it.
Kouk
05-24-07, 04:33 PM I think the idea behind reserve feats was that you prepare certain kinds of spells, thus tying up one of your spell slots, in order to gain the benefit. (I don't own Complete Mage, so maybe I'm wrong)

With the spontaneous casting, you would always be able to cast the spell even without devoting a spell slot to the reserve feat. If you don't have to devote a spell slot, then there is absolutely no downside for having a reserve feat (not that there really is one to begin with).

Can sorcerers use Reserve Feats? (I don't know, but it lends credence to allowing spontaneous casting to count).
Pentar
05-24-07, 04:47 PM Yes, Sorcerers can use Reserve feats. In order to meet the requirements, they simply need to have the appropriate spell in their spell list and an equal or greater spell slot available to cast it.

"...benefit can only be activated if the caster has a spell of an appropriate variety (of a particular school, subschool, or descriptor) available to cast".

It just says "available to cast". Are domain spells "available" to cast? I'd say yes. But only if the Domain spell is prepared like any other spell, or accessed by using a spontaneous spell slot.

EDIT:
Just a note; I agree with Ask Wizards in their answer regarding spontaneously converting Domain spells. You convert spells over top of an existing prepared one. Technically speaking, by the time you convert the spell, it is already cast, so it is no longer "prepared" and cannot be used to power a Reserve Feat. You cannot spontaneously convert a prepared spell without actually casting it.

In terms of the summoning aspect, they specifically state that Summon spells do not apply for descriptor base effects because the descriptor for those spells aren't determined until the spell is cast (and you choose what creature you are summoning).
The_Basilisk
05-24-07, 04:47 PM Yes, sorcerers can use reserve feats. As long as they have an unused spell slot capable of casting the required spell, the feat can be used. Using that reasoning, I think a cleric capable of spontaneously casting domain spells should be able use the appropriate reserve feats. I'm usually DM, and I would rule it so. (Yes, I own Complete Mage)
risner
05-24-07, 05:32 PM Does anyone else disagree with the Wizard's ruling? Or is it just me?

Does anyone even understand what is being said? I had to sift through the wording of the answer to understand it correctly.

I agree with it.

I read the "Sage Online" to say that the ability to spontaneously convert a spell not required by the Reserve feat into a spell required by the Reserve feat does not satisfy the Reserve feat requirement to have the spell available.

My reading of the Reserve feats is that you need to sacrifice a spell slot with the spell in order to gain the benefit.
Kusari_Gamer
05-24-07, 05:54 PM You convert spells over top of an existing prepared one. Technically speaking, by the time you convert the spell, it is already cast, so it is no longer "prepared" and cannot be used to power a Reserve Feat. You cannot spontaneously convert a prepared spell without actually casting it.

I completely agree with this statement. Well said.
Quoriil
05-24-07, 06:05 PM I completely agree with this statement. Well said.

I second!
Pentar
05-24-07, 08:03 PM I completely agree with this statement. Well said.

:)

Thanks!
Vaelan
05-24-07, 08:26 PM Does anyone else disagree with the Wizard's ruling? Or is it just me?
It is just you.

Does anyone even understand what is being said? I had to sift through the wording of the answer to understand it correctly.
Determining the effect of a Reserve feat based upon spontaneous spellcasting, which technically isn't allowed since the rules use the type of spellcaster you are rather than the type of spellcasting you are using, uses your list of spells known.

Clerics don't have a list of spells known, creating an obvious problem.
Grizzled Gryphon
05-24-07, 08:28 PM I would agree, except that kind of screws the Sorcerer on reserve feats. A Sorc can benefit from a reserve feat, but he doesn't have any spells prepared. He can, however, cast the right kind of spell. So, if that applies, then being able to spontaneously cast a spell is good enough.

Either way, it isn't that big a deal. Even the Sage mentioned that it isn't a big deal, and wouldn't be a problem if allowed. So, allow it, as it isn't a big deal.
Neutronium_Dragon
05-24-07, 09:36 PM It's a technicality. A sorcerer has spontaneous casting in a descriptive sense, but what he's doing is different from the spontaneous *conversion* which clerics and druids are using. In their case, they're taking fixed spell slots which don't have the appropriate spell and swapping them on the fly for something else, whereas the sorcerer actually has that spell available to cast all along; he's not converting some pre-selected spell into another one.
Vaelan
05-25-07, 02:10 AM I would agree, except that kind of screws the Sorcerer on reserve feats.
No, it doesn't. Reading the actual Reserve feat rules, or my post, would help clear up this misinterpretation.

It's a technicality. A sorcerer has spontaneous casting in a descriptive sense, but what he's doing is different from the spontaneous *conversion* which clerics and druids are using.
The technicality is that arcane casters have a list of spells known (Spells Known for Sorcerers, spells in a spellbook for Wizards). A Cleric has no such list.
Pentar
05-25-07, 02:20 PM I would agree, except that kind of screws the Sorcerer on reserve feats. A Sorc can benefit from a reserve feat, but he doesn't have any spells prepared. He can, however, cast the right kind of spell. So, if that applies, then being able to spontaneously cast a spell is good enough.

Either way, it isn't that big a deal. Even the Sage mentioned that it isn't a big deal, and wouldn't be a problem if allowed. So, allow it, as it isn't a big deal.

Others have already responded, but consider this as well:
There is a mechanical difference between a Sorcerer's spontaneous spells vs. a Cleric's spontaneous conversion. Sorcerer's have a free spell slot with which they can cast anything on their list. In the same "mechanic", if a Cleric had an empty spell slot (an unprepared spell for whatever reason), would they be able to spontaneously convert that empty un-used slot into a domain spell?

The answer is no.

So the Sorcerer mechanic does not apply to the Cleric conversions. They are similar on the surface, but very different in reality.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RavingDork 05-24-07, 11:20 AM	Dear Sage, Does the ability to spontaneously cast domain spells granted by the Domain Spontaneity feat (Complete Divine) fulfill the spell requirement of the reserve feats from Complete Mage? - Key Not technically. Since you don’t have a list of spells known, only a list of spells prepared and the ability to cast some spells spontaneously, having the ability to spontaneously cast domain spells that fulfill the requirements for reserve feats does not fulfill the reserve feat requirements. That said, there’s probably no harm in allowing it, and an unflinching DM confident in his ability to challenge you at every turn may have no problem hand-waving the technicality away. Does anyone else disagree with the Wizard's ruling? Or is it just me? Does anyone even understand what is being said? I had to sift through the wording of the answer to understand it correctly.
Vegepygmy 05-24-07, 11:35 AM	I don't have the reserve feat rules in front of me. What do they say about a druid who can convert a prepared spell to spontaneously cast summon nature's ally using such spontaneous spells to power the summoning reserve feat? If a druid can do so, Ask Wizards is wrong. If a druid cannot do so, Ask Wizards is right.
starfire311 05-24-07, 04:06 PM	I don't have the reserve feat rules in front of me. What do they say about a druid who can convert a prepared spell to spontaneously cast summon nature's ally using such spontaneous spells to power the summoning reserve feat? If a druid can do so, Ask Wizards is wrong. If a druid cannot do so, Ask Wizards is right. I do think they take the stance that a cleric that can sponteaneously cast a cure spell meets the prerequisites for reserve feats, but I am not 100% sure, since i havent read it in awhile.
Mahali Audran 05-24-07, 04:23 PM	I agree that being able to spontaneously cast a spell does not meet the requirements for Reserve Feats. If you want to use the feat prepare the spell and don't cast it.
Kouk 05-24-07, 04:33 PM	I think the idea behind reserve feats was that you prepare certain kinds of spells, thus tying up one of your spell slots, in order to gain the benefit. (I don't own Complete Mage, so maybe I'm wrong) With the spontaneous casting, you would always be able to cast the spell even without devoting a spell slot to the reserve feat. If you don't have to devote a spell slot, then there is absolutely no downside for having a reserve feat (not that there really is one to begin with). Can sorcerers use Reserve Feats? (I don't know, but it lends credence to allowing spontaneous casting to count).
Pentar 05-24-07, 04:47 PM	Yes, Sorcerers can use Reserve feats. In order to meet the requirements, they simply need to have the appropriate spell in their spell list and an equal or greater spell slot available to cast it. "...benefit can only be activated if the caster has a spell of an appropriate variety (of a particular school, subschool, or descriptor) available to cast". It just says "available to cast". Are domain spells "available" to cast? I'd say yes. But only if the Domain spell is prepared like any other spell, or accessed by using a spontaneous spell slot. EDIT: Just a note; I agree with Ask Wizards in their answer regarding spontaneously converting Domain spells. You convert spells over top of an existing prepared one. Technically speaking, by the time you convert the spell, it is already cast, so it is no longer "prepared" and cannot be used to power a Reserve Feat. You cannot spontaneously convert a prepared spell without actually casting it. In terms of the summoning aspect, they specifically state that Summon spells do not apply for descriptor base effects because the descriptor for those spells aren't determined until the spell is cast (and you choose what creature you are summoning).
The_Basilisk 05-24-07, 04:47 PM	Yes, sorcerers can use reserve feats. As long as they have an unused spell slot capable of casting the required spell, the feat can be used. Using that reasoning, I think a cleric capable of spontaneously casting domain spells should be able use the appropriate reserve feats. I'm usually DM, and I would rule it so. (Yes, I own Complete Mage)
risner 05-24-07, 05:32 PM	Does anyone else disagree with the Wizard's ruling? Or is it just me? Does anyone even understand what is being said? I had to sift through the wording of the answer to understand it correctly. I agree with it. I read the "Sage Online" to say that the ability to spontaneously convert a spell not required by the Reserve feat into a spell required by the Reserve feat does not satisfy the Reserve feat requirement to have the spell available. My reading of the Reserve feats is that you need to sacrifice a spell slot with the spell in order to gain the benefit.
Kusari_Gamer 05-24-07, 05:54 PM	You convert spells over top of an existing prepared one. Technically speaking, by the time you convert the spell, it is already cast, so it is no longer "prepared" and cannot be used to power a Reserve Feat. You cannot spontaneously convert a prepared spell without actually casting it. I completely agree with this statement. Well said.
Quoriil 05-24-07, 06:05 PM	I completely agree with this statement. Well said. I second!
Pentar 05-24-07, 08:03 PM	I completely agree with this statement. Well said. :) Thanks!
Vaelan 05-24-07, 08:26 PM	Does anyone else disagree with the Wizard's ruling? Or is it just me? It is just you. Does anyone even understand what is being said? I had to sift through the wording of the answer to understand it correctly. Determining the effect of a Reserve feat based upon spontaneous spellcasting, which technically isn't allowed since the rules use the type of spellcaster you are rather than the type of spellcasting you are using, uses your list of spells known. Clerics don't have a list of spells known, creating an obvious problem.
Grizzled Gryphon 05-24-07, 08:28 PM	I would agree, except that kind of screws the Sorcerer on reserve feats. A Sorc can benefit from a reserve feat, but he doesn't have any spells prepared. He can, however, cast the right kind of spell. So, if that applies, then being able to spontaneously cast a spell is good enough. Either way, it isn't that big a deal. Even the Sage mentioned that it isn't a big deal, and wouldn't be a problem if allowed. So, allow it, as it isn't a big deal.
Neutronium_Dragon 05-24-07, 09:36 PM	It's a technicality. A sorcerer has spontaneous casting in a descriptive sense, but what he's doing is different from the spontaneous conversion which clerics and druids are using. In their case, they're taking fixed spell slots which don't have the appropriate spell and swapping them on the fly for something else, whereas the sorcerer actually has that spell available to cast all along; he's not converting some pre-selected spell into another one.
Vaelan 05-25-07, 02:10 AM	I would agree, except that kind of screws the Sorcerer on reserve feats. No, it doesn't. Reading the actual Reserve feat rules, or my post, would help clear up this misinterpretation. It's a technicality. A sorcerer has spontaneous casting in a descriptive sense, but what he's doing is different from the spontaneous conversion which clerics and druids are using. The technicality is that arcane casters have a list of spells known (Spells Known for Sorcerers, spells in a spellbook for Wizards). A Cleric has no such list.
Pentar 05-25-07, 02:20 PM	I would agree, except that kind of screws the Sorcerer on reserve feats. A Sorc can benefit from a reserve feat, but he doesn't have any spells prepared. He can, however, cast the right kind of spell. So, if that applies, then being able to spontaneously cast a spell is good enough. Either way, it isn't that big a deal. Even the Sage mentioned that it isn't a big deal, and wouldn't be a problem if allowed. So, allow it, as it isn't a big deal. Others have already responded, but consider this as well: There is a mechanical difference between a Sorcerer's spontaneous spells vs. a Cleric's spontaneous conversion. Sorcerer's have a free spell slot with which they can cast anything on their list. In the same "mechanic", if a Cleric had an empty spell slot (an unprepared spell for whatever reason), would they be able to spontaneously convert that empty un-used slot into a domain spell? The answer is no. So the Sorcerer mechanic does not apply to the Cleric conversions. They are similar on the surface, but very different in reality.