Do you have to actually "jump" with Leap attack? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Do you have to actually "jump" with Leap attack? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FrostHammer
03-01-07, 08:48 PM If you can fly, can you gain the benefits of leap attack by just making a jump check as you dive toward your target?
SolenVlos
03-01-07, 09:31 PM I would say no.
Becouse you don't really use your legs for jumping, so you don't jump.
Tuah
03-01-07, 09:48 PM The point of the attack is to generate power by getting your entire body behind the attack; something very hard to do for most people. One thing that the BAB and unarmed damage count for is the fact that people often don't follow through with attacks. IRL, even I who has mostly gotten by this natural boundary due to martial art training, I can still only generate so much power in an attack, because some of my energy is going to supporting my body.

The Leap Attack is an ability designed to increase one's affinity for getting power behind an attack. Since the entire body is off the ground, there is nothing needed to assist in support, so the entire body gets behind the attack, whether you jump or not.
FrostHammer
03-01-07, 09:49 PM So you're saying the diving action of a flying creature should allow for more damage, in the form of Power Attack bonus?
Tuah
03-01-07, 09:55 PM Uh, I haven't seen the feat for it in a long time so I don't know what it would be in the form of, but I remember that it requires 10 feet of movement, a flying creature would be applicable for Leap Attack.
jaelis
03-01-07, 09:57 PM I would say you really need to jump. That's what the feat says.

So the question really is: are you allowed to jump while flying? I would probably say yes. It would represent folding your wings and hurtling through the air on your momentum only. I can think of at least one other circumstance where that might come up: if you are flying via magic, and want to pass through an antimagic field without falling.
FrostHammer
03-01-07, 09:59 PM Thank you for the clarification. Now I know I'll take Leap Attakc and Shock Trooper for my dragon mount.
ibayboy
03-02-07, 12:35 AM Maybe you want 'Diving Charge', from Races of the Wild (pg150). It does extra D6's not bonus Power Attack though.
imo, you can't jump while flying.
FrostHammer
03-02-07, 12:48 AM Those d6s suck because they're not multiplied.
ibayboy
03-02-07, 01:19 AM yes, but it is extra damage on a flying charge, which is kind what you wanted. And it's official. And there is no question about jumping while flying.
I see your point though, my Goliath warblade critted with a leap attack last weekend. sweet.:D
runestar
03-02-07, 01:33 AM I think you could make a RAW argument for first jumping at least 10ft, then flying the minimum distance required to activate diving charge, and finishing the remaining distance with the diving charge feat.

Technically, I recall the leap attack feat only requiring you to jump at least 10 ft. You do not actually have to land...

The rationale is quite retarded though, but I seem to recall seeing it somewhere on the CO board.

Does this ring a bell to anyone? My memory is quite fuzzy...:confused: Someone correct me if I am mistaken.:)
ibayboy
03-02-07, 01:36 AM I think you could make a RAW argument for first jumping at least 10ft, then flying the minimum distance required to activate diving charge, and finishing the remaining distance with the diving charge feat.

Technically, I recall the leap attack feat only requiring you to jump at least 10 ft. You do not actually have to land...

The rationale is quite retarded though, but I seem to recall seeing it somewhere on the CO board.

Does this ring a bell to anyone? My memory is quite fuzzy...:confused: Someone correct me if I am mistaken.:)

yes. you have to land your jump in a square threatening the opponent.
FrostHammer
03-02-07, 01:44 AM Right, so your mount starts the round flying, charges, "jumps" in the air, and lands in front of the victim. You and your mount impale said victim with lance and natural weapons, and then use Ride-by-Attack to keep right on going.
Tevin Kevlak
03-02-07, 03:30 AM You can't jump while flying. If you're in mid air you're not actually jumping off of anything are you?

Dictionary.com's definition of 'jump': to spring clear of the ground or other support by a sudden muscular effort; leap: to jump into the air; to jump out a window.

Since you're not on the ground to begin with (ground meaning anything you're standing on really) you can't jump while flying. If your DM lets you use leap attack without actually jumping more power to you... and less to him... but I certainly wouldn't allow it and logic dictates that it is impossible.

Edit: While I can't find a place in the PhB that says you need to be on the ground in order to jump, I have read numerous things posted by WoTC talking about how giving characters fly speeds gives them a tactical advantage and makes a number of skills useless such as climb, and jump. So if that's the case it's safe to assume that by the rules there is no option to jump while flying. If what you're looking for is a way to incorporate the Leap Attack feat with a dive attack (I assume that is why you ask, for that nifty double damage with a piercing weapon) I'd rule that you could descend 20 feet on your mount and then jump from your mount and as long as you meet the prereqs for using the Leap Attack feat both benefits would apply.
FrostHammer
03-02-07, 03:34 AM The enemy dragons cna use this tactic too, so it's not all good for me.
Tevin Kevlak
03-02-07, 03:39 AM The enemy dragons cna use this tactic too, so it's not all good for me.

They can use this tactic if your DM gives them the feats to do so, you will obviously have them, the dragons having them might be a different story especially if your DM is running a premade module.
runestar
03-02-07, 03:55 AM You can't jump while flying. If you're in mid air you're not actually jumping off of anything are you?
You can stand on air with a successful balance skill check. I see no reason why you can't effectively "jump and land on air", so to speak. :P

And I do not think anyone is talking about jumping while flying, but rather, flying while jumping...:confused:
Vaelan
03-02-07, 08:14 AM You cannot Jump while in the air. What you want is a custom feat that works a bit differently.

Of course, chances are a DM wouldn't allow it as your plan is to dive for double damage and get a better return for your Power Attack while doing so. This would be what... +8 to damage for every -1 to hit? Not going to happen.
Fallenangel359
03-02-07, 09:42 AM whats interesting is raptorians get 3x damage on a diving charge
FrostHammer
03-02-07, 12:33 PM whats interesting is raptorians get 3x damage on a diving charge

No they don't. They get 2x.

And dragon's don't get *any* bonus for doing a diving charge attack. I'm just trying to improve his piddly 1:1 PA ratio to 2:1 so it's worth it for my mount to take shock trooper.

My character is human. None of us are getting bonus for diving except for standard charge. I'm not taking shock trooper because I myself am never charging, so I can't benefit. My mount is charging.

Please get your facts straight before commenting, Vaelan.
Tuah
03-02-07, 05:16 PM The point of the extra damage would not be generated by the simple fact that you started on the ground. The jump is simply to get all of the body off the ground, and to have enough speed to attack properly. A flying creature could easily accomplish this.

Look at the feat by logic; not by exact description of the rules. The exact description is lacking in clarification, therefore we need to use intellect to make up for it.
runestar
03-03-07, 12:27 AM Look at the feat by logic; not by exact description of the rules. The exact description is lacking in clarification, therefore we need to use intellect to make up for it.
It seems to be the other way round. The feat seems pretty much crystal clear in what you can and cannot do. It does appear, however, you are attempting to use "logic" to weasel your way out of a rules limitation...:P
Lotus Crane
03-03-07, 03:43 AM This would be what... +8 to damage for every -1 to hit? Not going to happen.
Why? That sounds fair to me, if he's going that far out of his way to use a combination of feats, racial abilities, and/or magic items to pull this off. In a world where wizards can stop time and reverse gravity, where clerics can divine persist a million self-buffs and walk around with a free undead army, where druids can wildshape then proceed to teamup on you with their animal companion and a couple dozen Ashbound summoned allies, and where any of the above can gate in solars or elemental monliths, I feel that allowing fighters (or warrior classes in general) to get a 8 to 1 ratio and deal a few hundred points of damage per round is just the beginning of what they're entitled to.

It seems to be the other way round. The feat seems pretty much crystal clear in what you can and cannot do. It does appear, however, you are attempting to use "logic" to weasel your way out of a rules limitation...:P
Well, I prioritize game balance over logic, "realism," and sometimes even the RAW. With that in mind, I'd allow flying characters to still benefit from Leap Attack, simply because I don't think it's fair to ever treat the whole as less than the sum of its parts, which would be the case if you disallowed flying creatures to benefit from Leap Attack.

Think of it this way: generally speaking, gaining the ability to fly is an upgrade for a character who previously couldn't, and there's no real drawbacks (nor should there arbitrarily be any). If there's a character whose effectiveness comes from him relying on Leap Attack, who later gains the ability to fly (magic items, template, whatever), this new ability should operate as an all-around upgrade; it's unfair to add a downside to this by saying that flying and Leap Attack are mutually exclusive.

Upgrades should be upgrades, and interact with previous abilities in the most favorable way possible. If a character can use Leap Attack when all he can do is run and jump, it's only fair that he can continue to use Leap Attack when he can also fly and divebomb, because upgrades should be upgrades, without hidden downsides. Being able to fly should make him better at combat, not actually worse.
Fireclave
03-03-07, 03:56 AM No, you can't gain the benefits from Leap Attack while flying because you need to jump prior to making the manuver. "Flying" is not "jumping."

However, you can gain the same effect by making a dive attack.

A creature that flies can make dive attacks. A dive attack works just like a charge, but the diving creature must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. It can make only claw or talon attacks, but these deal double damage. A creature can use the run action while flying, provided it flies in a straight line.

Any creature that flies and can cover the minimum speed can make a dive attack. Save yourself the feat. Have your dragon cohort pickup Improved Flight instead to maximize how often it can make dive attacks.
runestar
03-03-07, 07:19 AM Lotus Crane, you make a very compelling argument.
Your argument works on the implicit assumption that flying is a natural upgrade of jumping. I am still not quite convinced that it is necessarily so.

I will come back to this later when I have gathered my thoughts sufficiently.:)
FrostHammer
03-03-07, 12:45 PM In any case, being able to deal double damage with the claws is very good anyways, so Leap attack's bonus won't be needed.

My Dragon can still Power attack for decent damage.
Tevin Kevlak
03-05-07, 04:16 PM Why? That sounds fair to me, if he's going that far out of his way to use a combination of feats, racial abilities, and/or magic items to pull this off. In a world where wizards can stop time and reverse gravity, where clerics can divine persist a million self-buffs and walk around with a free undead army, where druids can wildshape then proceed to teamup on you with their animal companion and a couple dozen Ashbound summoned allies, and where any of the above can gate in solars or elemental monliths, I feel that allowing fighters (or warrior classes in general) to get a 8 to 1 ratio and deal a few hundred points of damage per round is just the beginning of what they're entitled to.

Well, I prioritize game balance over logic, "realism," and sometimes even the RAW. With that in mind, I'd allow flying characters to still benefit from Leap Attack, simply because I don't think it's fair to ever treat the whole as less than the sum of its parts, which would be the case if you disallowed flying creatures to benefit from Leap Attack.

Think of it this way: generally speaking, gaining the ability to fly is an upgrade for a character who previously couldn't, and there's no real drawbacks (nor should there arbitrarily be any). If there's a character whose effectiveness comes from him relying on Leap Attack, who later gains the ability to fly (magic items, template, whatever), this new ability should operate as an all-around upgrade; it's unfair to add a downside to this by saying that flying and Leap Attack are mutually exclusive.

Upgrades should be upgrades, and interact with previous abilities in the most favorable way possible. If a character can use Leap Attack when all he can do is run and jump, it's only fair that he can continue to use Leap Attack when he can also fly and divebomb, because upgrades should be upgrades, without hidden downsides. Being able to fly should make him better at combat, not actually worse.

The character in question (one that had leap attack and then gains the ability to fly) isn't losing any of the benefits of the feat what-so-ever. No one would be arbitrarily debilitating this character because he can now fly. The feat would work the same as it always did, and he would continue to gain the benefits whenever he jumped during a chrage and used power attack. What would be an arbitrary change would be to assume that just because the character can now fly all of his abilities should be upgraded to function while the character is flying. If the character gains a fly speed he can fly, no one is arbitrarily nerfing the character, is the character jumps during a charge using power attack he gains the benefits of Leap Attack so again no one is arbitrarily nerfing the character.

The only thing one would be doing by giving the character this unpresidented synergy with his new fly speed is telling the character that they should abuse this fly speed, ie if everything that normally wouldn't work while flying suddenly does work while flying why not fly at all times? At least, this is my opinion as a DM.
Shadowmind64
03-05-07, 04:33 PM meh. i dont see why couldnt houserule a feat to allow you to emulate leap attack with a flying creature

As far as jumping in midair, i can jump when on the ground by applying a larger amount of force against the ground than is needed for walking or running. I dont see why something with wings couldnt apply a larger amount of force than necessary to get a "jump" in their air speed, if only momentarily.

All in all, I would allow it. Letting someone pull off this trick really isn't going to break the game.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 08:48 PM	If you can fly, can you gain the benefits of leap attack by just making a jump check as you dive toward your target?
SolenVlos 03-01-07, 09:31 PM	I would say no. Becouse you don't really use your legs for jumping, so you don't jump.
Tuah 03-01-07, 09:48 PM	The point of the attack is to generate power by getting your entire body behind the attack; something very hard to do for most people. One thing that the BAB and unarmed damage count for is the fact that people often don't follow through with attacks. IRL, even I who has mostly gotten by this natural boundary due to martial art training, I can still only generate so much power in an attack, because some of my energy is going to supporting my body. The Leap Attack is an ability designed to increase one's affinity for getting power behind an attack. Since the entire body is off the ground, there is nothing needed to assist in support, so the entire body gets behind the attack, whether you jump or not.
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 09:49 PM	So you're saying the diving action of a flying creature should allow for more damage, in the form of Power Attack bonus?
Tuah 03-01-07, 09:55 PM	Uh, I haven't seen the feat for it in a long time so I don't know what it would be in the form of, but I remember that it requires 10 feet of movement, a flying creature would be applicable for Leap Attack.
jaelis 03-01-07, 09:57 PM	I would say you really need to jump. That's what the feat says. So the question really is: are you allowed to jump while flying? I would probably say yes. It would represent folding your wings and hurtling through the air on your momentum only. I can think of at least one other circumstance where that might come up: if you are flying via magic, and want to pass through an antimagic field without falling.
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 09:59 PM	Thank you for the clarification. Now I know I'll take Leap Attakc and Shock Trooper for my dragon mount.
ibayboy 03-02-07, 12:35 AM	Maybe you want 'Diving Charge', from Races of the Wild (pg150). It does extra D6's not bonus Power Attack though. imo, you can't jump while flying.
FrostHammer 03-02-07, 12:48 AM	Those d6s suck because they're not multiplied.
ibayboy 03-02-07, 01:19 AM	yes, but it is extra damage on a flying charge, which is kind what you wanted. And it's official. And there is no question about jumping while flying. I see your point though, my Goliath warblade critted with a leap attack last weekend. sweet.:D
runestar 03-02-07, 01:33 AM	I think you could make a RAW argument for first jumping at least 10ft, then flying the minimum distance required to activate diving charge, and finishing the remaining distance with the diving charge feat. Technically, I recall the leap attack feat only requiring you to jump at least 10 ft. You do not actually have to land... The rationale is quite retarded though, but I seem to recall seeing it somewhere on the CO board. Does this ring a bell to anyone? My memory is quite fuzzy...:confused: Someone correct me if I am mistaken.:)
ibayboy 03-02-07, 01:36 AM	I think you could make a RAW argument for first jumping at least 10ft, then flying the minimum distance required to activate diving charge, and finishing the remaining distance with the diving charge feat. Technically, I recall the leap attack feat only requiring you to jump at least 10 ft. You do not actually have to land... The rationale is quite retarded though, but I seem to recall seeing it somewhere on the CO board. Does this ring a bell to anyone? My memory is quite fuzzy...:confused: Someone correct me if I am mistaken.:) yes. you have to land your jump in a square threatening the opponent.
FrostHammer 03-02-07, 01:44 AM	Right, so your mount starts the round flying, charges, "jumps" in the air, and lands in front of the victim. You and your mount impale said victim with lance and natural weapons, and then use Ride-by-Attack to keep right on going.
Tevin Kevlak 03-02-07, 03:30 AM	You can't jump while flying. If you're in mid air you're not actually jumping off of anything are you? Dictionary.com's definition of 'jump': to spring clear of the ground or other support by a sudden muscular effort; leap: to jump into the air; to jump out a window. Since you're not on the ground to begin with (ground meaning anything you're standing on really) you can't jump while flying. If your DM lets you use leap attack without actually jumping more power to you... and less to him... but I certainly wouldn't allow it and logic dictates that it is impossible. Edit: While I can't find a place in the PhB that says you need to be on the ground in order to jump, I have read numerous things posted by WoTC talking about how giving characters fly speeds gives them a tactical advantage and makes a number of skills useless such as climb, and jump. So if that's the case it's safe to assume that by the rules there is no option to jump while flying. If what you're looking for is a way to incorporate the Leap Attack feat with a dive attack (I assume that is why you ask, for that nifty double damage with a piercing weapon) I'd rule that you could descend 20 feet on your mount and then jump from your mount and as long as you meet the prereqs for using the Leap Attack feat both benefits would apply.
FrostHammer 03-02-07, 03:34 AM	The enemy dragons cna use this tactic too, so it's not all good for me.
Tevin Kevlak 03-02-07, 03:39 AM	The enemy dragons cna use this tactic too, so it's not all good for me. They can use this tactic if your DM gives them the feats to do so, you will obviously have them, the dragons having them might be a different story especially if your DM is running a premade module.
runestar 03-02-07, 03:55 AM	You can't jump while flying. If you're in mid air you're not actually jumping off of anything are you? You can stand on air with a successful balance skill check. I see no reason why you can't effectively "jump and land on air", so to speak. :P And I do not think anyone is talking about jumping while flying, but rather, flying while jumping...:confused:
Vaelan 03-02-07, 08:14 AM	You cannot Jump while in the air. What you want is a custom feat that works a bit differently. Of course, chances are a DM wouldn't allow it as your plan is to dive for double damage and get a better return for your Power Attack while doing so. This would be what... +8 to damage for every -1 to hit? Not going to happen.
Fallenangel359 03-02-07, 09:42 AM	whats interesting is raptorians get 3x damage on a diving charge
FrostHammer 03-02-07, 12:33 PM	whats interesting is raptorians get 3x damage on a diving charge No they don't. They get 2x. And dragon's don't get any bonus for doing a diving charge attack. I'm just trying to improve his piddly 1:1 PA ratio to 2:1 so it's worth it for my mount to take shock trooper. My character is human. None of us are getting bonus for diving except for standard charge. I'm not taking shock trooper because I myself am never charging, so I can't benefit. My mount is charging. Please get your facts straight before commenting, Vaelan.
Tuah 03-02-07, 05:16 PM	The point of the extra damage would not be generated by the simple fact that you started on the ground. The jump is simply to get all of the body off the ground, and to have enough speed to attack properly. A flying creature could easily accomplish this. Look at the feat by logic; not by exact description of the rules. The exact description is lacking in clarification, therefore we need to use intellect to make up for it.
runestar 03-03-07, 12:27 AM	Look at the feat by logic; not by exact description of the rules. The exact description is lacking in clarification, therefore we need to use intellect to make up for it. It seems to be the other way round. The feat seems pretty much crystal clear in what you can and cannot do. It does appear, however, you are attempting to use "logic" to weasel your way out of a rules limitation...:P
Lotus Crane 03-03-07, 03:43 AM	This would be what... +8 to damage for every -1 to hit? Not going to happen. Why? That sounds fair to me, if he's going that far out of his way to use a combination of feats, racial abilities, and/or magic items to pull this off. In a world where wizards can stop time and reverse gravity, where clerics can divine persist a million self-buffs and walk around with a free undead army, where druids can wildshape then proceed to teamup on you with their animal companion and a couple dozen Ashbound summoned allies, and where any of the above can gate in solars or elemental monliths, I feel that allowing fighters (or warrior classes in general) to get a 8 to 1 ratio and deal a few hundred points of damage per round is just the beginning of what they're entitled to. It seems to be the other way round. The feat seems pretty much crystal clear in what you can and cannot do. It does appear, however, you are attempting to use "logic" to weasel your way out of a rules limitation...:P Well, I prioritize game balance over logic, "realism," and sometimes even the RAW. With that in mind, I'd allow flying characters to still benefit from Leap Attack, simply because I don't think it's fair to ever treat the whole as less than the sum of its parts, which would be the case if you disallowed flying creatures to benefit from Leap Attack. Think of it this way: generally speaking, gaining the ability to fly is an upgrade for a character who previously couldn't, and there's no real drawbacks (nor should there arbitrarily be any). If there's a character whose effectiveness comes from him relying on Leap Attack, who later gains the ability to fly (magic items, template, whatever), this new ability should operate as an all-around upgrade; it's unfair to add a downside to this by saying that flying and Leap Attack are mutually exclusive. Upgrades should be upgrades, and interact with previous abilities in the most favorable way possible. If a character can use Leap Attack when all he can do is run and jump, it's only fair that he can continue to use Leap Attack when he can also fly and divebomb, because upgrades should be upgrades, without hidden downsides. Being able to fly should make him better at combat, not actually worse.
Fireclave 03-03-07, 03:56 AM	No, you can't gain the benefits from Leap Attack while flying because you need to jump prior to making the manuver. "Flying" is not "jumping." However, you can gain the same effect by making a dive attack. A creature that flies can make dive attacks. A dive attack works just like a charge, but the diving creature must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. It can make only claw or talon attacks, but these deal double damage. A creature can use the run action while flying, provided it flies in a straight line. Any creature that flies and can cover the minimum speed can make a dive attack. Save yourself the feat. Have your dragon cohort pickup Improved Flight instead to maximize how often it can make dive attacks.
runestar 03-03-07, 07:19 AM	Lotus Crane, you make a very compelling argument. Your argument works on the implicit assumption that flying is a natural upgrade of jumping. I am still not quite convinced that it is necessarily so. I will come back to this later when I have gathered my thoughts sufficiently.:)
FrostHammer 03-03-07, 12:45 PM	In any case, being able to deal double damage with the claws is very good anyways, so Leap attack's bonus won't be needed. My Dragon can still Power attack for decent damage.
Tevin Kevlak 03-05-07, 04:16 PM	Why? That sounds fair to me, if he's going that far out of his way to use a combination of feats, racial abilities, and/or magic items to pull this off. In a world where wizards can stop time and reverse gravity, where clerics can divine persist a million self-buffs and walk around with a free undead army, where druids can wildshape then proceed to teamup on you with their animal companion and a couple dozen Ashbound summoned allies, and where any of the above can gate in solars or elemental monliths, I feel that allowing fighters (or warrior classes in general) to get a 8 to 1 ratio and deal a few hundred points of damage per round is just the beginning of what they're entitled to. Well, I prioritize game balance over logic, "realism," and sometimes even the RAW. With that in mind, I'd allow flying characters to still benefit from Leap Attack, simply because I don't think it's fair to ever treat the whole as less than the sum of its parts, which would be the case if you disallowed flying creatures to benefit from Leap Attack. Think of it this way: generally speaking, gaining the ability to fly is an upgrade for a character who previously couldn't, and there's no real drawbacks (nor should there arbitrarily be any). If there's a character whose effectiveness comes from him relying on Leap Attack, who later gains the ability to fly (magic items, template, whatever), this new ability should operate as an all-around upgrade; it's unfair to add a downside to this by saying that flying and Leap Attack are mutually exclusive. Upgrades should be upgrades, and interact with previous abilities in the most favorable way possible. If a character can use Leap Attack when all he can do is run and jump, it's only fair that he can continue to use Leap Attack when he can also fly and divebomb, because upgrades should be upgrades, without hidden downsides. Being able to fly should make him better at combat, not actually worse. The character in question (one that had leap attack and then gains the ability to fly) isn't losing any of the benefits of the feat what-so-ever. No one would be arbitrarily debilitating this character because he can now fly. The feat would work the same as it always did, and he would continue to gain the benefits whenever he jumped during a chrage and used power attack. What would be an arbitrary change would be to assume that just because the character can now fly all of his abilities should be upgraded to function while the character is flying. If the character gains a fly speed he can fly, no one is arbitrarily nerfing the character, is the character jumps during a charge using power attack he gains the benefits of Leap Attack so again no one is arbitrarily nerfing the character. The only thing one would be doing by giving the character this unpresidented synergy with his new fly speed is telling the character that they should abuse this fly speed, ie if everything that normally wouldn't work while flying suddenly does work while flying why not fly at all times? At least, this is my opinion as a DM.
Shadowmind64 03-05-07, 04:33 PM	meh. i dont see why couldnt houserule a feat to allow you to emulate leap attack with a flying creature As far as jumping in midair, i can jump when on the ground by applying a larger amount of force against the ground than is needed for walking or running. I dont see why something with wings couldnt apply a larger amount of force than necessary to get a "jump" in their air speed, if only momentarily. All in all, I would allow it. Letting someone pull off this trick really isn't going to break the game.