Does Arcane Strike work with Spell-like abilities? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Does Arcane Strike work with Spell-like abilities? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jakelslang21
07-16-07, 07:37 AM The feat Arcane Strike from Complete Warrior... Does it also work with Spell-like abilities?
Dalthbar
07-16-07, 07:59 AM Arcane Strike says that you must "sacrifice one of your spells for the day..." in order for you to gain that benefit.

Since Spell-Like Abilities are not the same thing as casting a spell, I wouldn't think that it would count.

If so, every Warlock in town would be taking it since their Eldritch Blast is an at-will SLA.

Arcane Strike really only begins to shine when you start sacrificing high level spells. For lower-level stuff, I think Blade of Blood is a much better option - especially if you have a build where you can sacrifice the 5hp to deal +3d6 damage for a 1st level spell.
jakelslang21
07-16-07, 08:11 AM Whoa that is basically what I'm looking for. And if you have fast healing... A few questions. The feat wirj with SLAs right? And can you point me to where the feat is? Thanks.
Dalthbar
07-16-07, 08:19 AM I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for, but Blade of Blood is a 1st level spell in the PHB II.

The Warlock is a base class found in Complete Arcane and their Eldritch Blast is a class ability they gain at level 1 - it can't be taken as a feat.
jakelslang21
07-16-07, 08:25 AM Oh whoops sorry hehe... I was thinking it was a feat for some reason. Hmm blade of blood isn't really what I'm looking for. Thanks for your help though.
KrisTheGreat
07-23-07, 12:13 AM my best word of advice for arcane strike is to ban it from your game it is way overpowering in any party while it may look harmless at low levels it is totally out of control at epic levels when characters can start using 10+ spells to power do your self a favor as a dm and get rid of it
runestar
07-23-07, 12:40 AM And that is broken as compared to actually casting the 10th lv spell itself how?:P
archerpwr
07-23-07, 12:53 AM my best word of advice for arcane strike is to ban it from your game it is way overpowering in any party while it may look harmless at low levels it is totally out of control at epic levels when characters can start using 10+ spells to power do your self a favor as a dm and get rid of it

A better option would be to ban hydras. 12 heads = 12 times the effectiveness of each spell lvl. AS is not broken, but polymorph et all are quite so.
KrisTheGreat
07-24-07, 09:04 PM well the point of being a wizard or multiclass wizard is to use your abiltites and spells as much as possible while arcane strike is very useful to allow you to use your spells a multiclass wizard at epic levels has no need to use anything else it is far superior to all but the most powerful of spell (wish for example ) and is better than every offensive spell in the game it requires no sr and no save and you get all of your attacks with the damage added i know that my statement may sound nuts but i found all of this out the hard way arcane strike is broke badly
gotbrain
07-24-07, 11:27 PM my best word of advice for arcane strike is to ban it from your game it is way overpowering in any party while it may look harmless at low levels it is totally out of control at epic levels when characters can start using 10+ spells to power do your self a favor as a dm and get rid of it

man i can't see that. I have a hard time thinking it's even worth taking as a feat. Why would i want to do an extra 3d4 damage when i can do upto 10d6 with a fireball? How is an extra 1d4 better than channeling shocking grasp at 5d6?
Fallenangel359
07-24-07, 11:50 PM Arcane strike is best combined with gish builds. Duskblade for example, is a decent candidate. Just a way to boost attack roll a bit.

I'm personally a fan of jade phoenix mages. I've DMed for 1, and it was a little crazy when a dreadnecro jade pheonix that was level 8 punched a 41 hp phase spider, and turned it into goo with arcane wrath, a 4th level spell, and negetive energy touch, along with a gauntlet punch, on an attack of opprotunity against a charge. He prepared the arcane strike ahead of time, readied.
KrisTheGreat
07-25-07, 12:06 AM what makes it crazy is the epic repurcutions for example a delayed blast fireball cand do 20 d6 so and average of a60 if a character made for epic which is what my crew plans for has 4 attacks and with two weapon fighting he has seven and with haste 8 so if he sacraficed the same spell he would get a possible amount of damge of 64 d 4 and a +8 to hit on top of his already exceptional combat abilities with an average of 128 arcane strike damge plus weapon
MareltEkiran
07-25-07, 12:19 AM You need quite a build to be able to get the entire two-weapon fighting chain, a BAB of +16 at 20th level and access to 9th level spells at that point. In fact, I think even the best Gish build barely makes it with a 17th level wizard equivalent.

At that level, your individual little knives will do so little damage (not to mention DR) that it's hardly worth the effort and your last attacks will more likely miss than hit.

So with a lot of luck on attack rolls, the slashes in melee of an extremely focussed Gish build will do slightly more damage in total with a given spell level than a standard spell that is cast from a distance... I fail to see how exactly this is broken. Delayed Blast Fireball is a terrible spell if you look at it from a sheer damage perspective anyway.

I'll take a Sorcerer with Arcane Thesis: Orb of Acid or Enervation and a few metamagic feats any day... whatever damage Arcane strike could do is easily trumped by the orb and I won't even mention the world of hurt that Enervation could do. And all from a save distance and requiring only one easy touch attack roll.

Of course, once you enter epic levels, all game balance has been thrown out of the window. In that case, a few extra d4's from Arcane Strike are the least of your worries.
KrisTheGreat
07-25-07, 01:30 AM the spell choice was weak but the theory applies my crew plays campaigns that last until the late 30 and early 40 lvls so everyone makes characters that have at least a 16 ba while arcane strike is no problem if you only play till to 20 whenu reach truly epic lvl you are just an arcane strike machine cause at that point spells dont work anymore unless you have epic magic which is a whole other thing
strenoth
07-25-07, 02:46 AM Up, pretty much, those high level spells, if meta-magiced properly and cast by a pure-caster, are MORE powerful that any 9 attacks a gish build of that level is likely to get, and land.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jakelslang21 07-16-07, 07:37 AM	The feat Arcane Strike from Complete Warrior... Does it also work with Spell-like abilities?
Dalthbar 07-16-07, 07:59 AM	Arcane Strike says that you must "sacrifice one of your spells for the day..." in order for you to gain that benefit. Since Spell-Like Abilities are not the same thing as casting a spell, I wouldn't think that it would count. If so, every Warlock in town would be taking it since their Eldritch Blast is an at-will SLA. Arcane Strike really only begins to shine when you start sacrificing high level spells. For lower-level stuff, I think Blade of Blood is a much better option - especially if you have a build where you can sacrifice the 5hp to deal +3d6 damage for a 1st level spell.
jakelslang21 07-16-07, 08:11 AM	Whoa that is basically what I'm looking for. And if you have fast healing... A few questions. The feat wirj with SLAs right? And can you point me to where the feat is? Thanks.
Dalthbar 07-16-07, 08:19 AM	I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for, but Blade of Blood is a 1st level spell in the PHB II. The Warlock is a base class found in Complete Arcane and their Eldritch Blast is a class ability they gain at level 1 - it can't be taken as a feat.
jakelslang21 07-16-07, 08:25 AM	Oh whoops sorry hehe... I was thinking it was a feat for some reason. Hmm blade of blood isn't really what I'm looking for. Thanks for your help though.
KrisTheGreat 07-23-07, 12:13 AM	my best word of advice for arcane strike is to ban it from your game it is way overpowering in any party while it may look harmless at low levels it is totally out of control at epic levels when characters can start using 10+ spells to power do your self a favor as a dm and get rid of it
runestar 07-23-07, 12:40 AM	And that is broken as compared to actually casting the 10th lv spell itself how?:P
archerpwr 07-23-07, 12:53 AM	my best word of advice for arcane strike is to ban it from your game it is way overpowering in any party while it may look harmless at low levels it is totally out of control at epic levels when characters can start using 10+ spells to power do your self a favor as a dm and get rid of it A better option would be to ban hydras. 12 heads = 12 times the effectiveness of each spell lvl. AS is not broken, but polymorph et all are quite so.
KrisTheGreat 07-24-07, 09:04 PM	well the point of being a wizard or multiclass wizard is to use your abiltites and spells as much as possible while arcane strike is very useful to allow you to use your spells a multiclass wizard at epic levels has no need to use anything else it is far superior to all but the most powerful of spell (wish for example ) and is better than every offensive spell in the game it requires no sr and no save and you get all of your attacks with the damage added i know that my statement may sound nuts but i found all of this out the hard way arcane strike is broke badly
gotbrain 07-24-07, 11:27 PM	my best word of advice for arcane strike is to ban it from your game it is way overpowering in any party while it may look harmless at low levels it is totally out of control at epic levels when characters can start using 10+ spells to power do your self a favor as a dm and get rid of it man i can't see that. I have a hard time thinking it's even worth taking as a feat. Why would i want to do an extra 3d4 damage when i can do upto 10d6 with a fireball? How is an extra 1d4 better than channeling shocking grasp at 5d6?
Fallenangel359 07-24-07, 11:50 PM	Arcane strike is best combined with gish builds. Duskblade for example, is a decent candidate. Just a way to boost attack roll a bit. I'm personally a fan of jade phoenix mages. I've DMed for 1, and it was a little crazy when a dreadnecro jade pheonix that was level 8 punched a 41 hp phase spider, and turned it into goo with arcane wrath, a 4th level spell, and negetive energy touch, along with a gauntlet punch, on an attack of opprotunity against a charge. He prepared the arcane strike ahead of time, readied.
KrisTheGreat 07-25-07, 12:06 AM	what makes it crazy is the epic repurcutions for example a delayed blast fireball cand do 20 d6 so and average of a60 if a character made for epic which is what my crew plans for has 4 attacks and with two weapon fighting he has seven and with haste 8 so if he sacraficed the same spell he would get a possible amount of damge of 64 d 4 and a +8 to hit on top of his already exceptional combat abilities with an average of 128 arcane strike damge plus weapon
MareltEkiran 07-25-07, 12:19 AM	You need quite a build to be able to get the entire two-weapon fighting chain, a BAB of +16 at 20th level and access to 9th level spells at that point. In fact, I think even the best Gish build barely makes it with a 17th level wizard equivalent. At that level, your individual little knives will do so little damage (not to mention DR) that it's hardly worth the effort and your last attacks will more likely miss than hit. So with a lot of luck on attack rolls, the slashes in melee of an extremely focussed Gish build will do slightly more damage in total with a given spell level than a standard spell that is cast from a distance... I fail to see how exactly this is broken. Delayed Blast Fireball is a terrible spell if you look at it from a sheer damage perspective anyway. I'll take a Sorcerer with Arcane Thesis: Orb of Acid or Enervation and a few metamagic feats any day... whatever damage Arcane strike could do is easily trumped by the orb and I won't even mention the world of hurt that Enervation could do. And all from a save distance and requiring only one easy touch attack roll. Of course, once you enter epic levels, all game balance has been thrown out of the window. In that case, a few extra d4's from Arcane Strike are the least of your worries.
KrisTheGreat 07-25-07, 01:30 AM	the spell choice was weak but the theory applies my crew plays campaigns that last until the late 30 and early 40 lvls so everyone makes characters that have at least a 16 ba while arcane strike is no problem if you only play till to 20 whenu reach truly epic lvl you are just an arcane strike machine cause at that point spells dont work anymore unless you have epic magic which is a whole other thing
strenoth 07-25-07, 02:46 AM	Up, pretty much, those high level spells, if meta-magiced properly and cast by a pure-caster, are MORE powerful that any 9 attacks a gish build of that level is likely to get, and land.