Does Mindsight require line of effect? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Does Mindsight require line of effect? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheCobra
05-09-07, 05:24 PM If not, the feat is amazing. Both Blindsense and Blindsight require line of effect.
Tempest Stormwind
05-09-07, 06:36 PM If not, the feat is amazing. Both Blindsense and Blindsight require line of effect.

Look at the feat. Actually think about what goes into it.

It says you can pinpoint anyone thinking in range of your telepathy. Telepathy isn't blocked by line of sight or even line of effect -- you can communicate with any creature who has a language within range of your telepathy if you are aware of it (if my buddy is a floor below me but within range of my telepathy, I can talk to him even if I don't have line of effect and even if I don't know where he is; he's in range, he's a valid target. I'd just need to be aware of his presence somehow to know that I *could* talk to him, otherwise I'd just be babbling telepathically all the time). Thus, it apparently seems to inherit the lack of LoE dependence from telepathy

It then goes on to say it functions "much like blindsense", which implies it might require line of effect. However, this part of the sentence could easily be an example, as it goes on to illustrate HOW it functions like blindsense -- that is, it lets you know where things are but doesn't count as seeing them (meaning concealment still applies). Since it doesn't inherit the rest of blindsense's requirements -- such as a dependence on a physical sense (i.e. sound) -- I can't see why it would inherit anything from blindsense except what it says it does.

Thus it appears that it doesn't need LoE to operate. Given how it's a feat obviously intended for monsters (it's not in Lords of Madness' PC feat chapter), it probably wasn't tested with PCs in mind (especially with the Mindbender out there, which makes 100' telepathy as easy as a few cross-class skill ranks, not banning Enchantment, and gaining a Fort save boost.
TheCobra
05-09-07, 06:46 PM Well, I've got a PC who has the feat. Perhaps I should have thought a little more before allowing that.

Hey, at least mind blank should stop it.

Considering that Mindsight does seem to ignore line of effect, using shapechange to become a formian queen is totally nuts. With 50 mile telepathy, you'd see a good chunk of the Underdark. Sounds like fun.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheCobra 05-09-07, 05:24 PM	If not, the feat is amazing. Both Blindsense and Blindsight require line of effect.
Tempest Stormwind 05-09-07, 06:36 PM	If not, the feat is amazing. Both Blindsense and Blindsight require line of effect. Look at the feat. Actually think about what goes into it. It says you can pinpoint anyone thinking in range of your telepathy. Telepathy isn't blocked by line of sight or even line of effect -- you can communicate with any creature who has a language within range of your telepathy if you are aware of it (if my buddy is a floor below me but within range of my telepathy, I can talk to him even if I don't have line of effect and even if I don't know where he is; he's in range, he's a valid target. I'd just need to be aware of his presence somehow to know that I could talk to him, otherwise I'd just be babbling telepathically all the time). Thus, it apparently seems to inherit the lack of LoE dependence from telepathy It then goes on to say it functions "much like blindsense", which implies it might require line of effect. However, this part of the sentence could easily be an example, as it goes on to illustrate HOW it functions like blindsense -- that is, it lets you know where things are but doesn't count as seeing them (meaning concealment still applies). Since it doesn't inherit the rest of blindsense's requirements -- such as a dependence on a physical sense (i.e. sound) -- I can't see why it would inherit anything from blindsense except what it says it does. Thus it appears that it doesn't need LoE to operate. Given how it's a feat obviously intended for monsters (it's not in Lords of Madness' PC feat chapter), it probably wasn't tested with PCs in mind (especially with the Mindbender out there, which makes 100' telepathy as easy as a few cross-class skill ranks, not banning Enchantment, and gaining a Fort save boost.
TheCobra 05-09-07, 06:46 PM	Well, I've got a PC who has the feat. Perhaps I should have thought a little more before allowing that. Hey, at least mind blank should stop it. Considering that Mindsight does seem to ignore line of effect, using shapechange to become a formian queen is totally nuts. With 50 mile telepathy, you'd see a good chunk of the Underdark. Sounds like fun.