Domain Spontaneity and Healing Domain is better? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Domain Spontaneity and Healing Domain is better? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lyndis
02-02-08, 02:46 AM If someone has the Healing Domain, is there any reason not to take the Domain Spontaneity ACF for the Healing Domain of the cleric instead of having the normal spontenaeous casting of cure spells (assume you don't really care about the spells in your other domain)? This would allow you to spontaneous cast Heal, Rengerate, and Mass heal, in addition to what you could do before.
mplindustries
02-02-08, 02:56 AM If someone has the Healing Domain, is there any reason not to take the Domain Spontaneity ACF for the Healing Domain of the cleric instead of having the normal spontenaeous casting of cure spells (assume you don't really care about the spells in your other domain)? This would allow you to spontaneous cast Heal, Rengerate, and Mass heal, in addition to what you could do before.

Nope, its better. Assuming you want to heal of course.

With great power comes great responsibility. Or more likely, great pressure to heal and do nothing else, even though you alone are probably just as good as the rest of your party combined if they'd just quit complaining. Unless you have a druid in your party. Or a high level wizard.
Lyndis
02-02-08, 03:14 AM Forget me. This would be for my Radiant Servant of Pelor cohort who uses DMM: Reach and DMM: Quicken
mplindustries
02-02-08, 04:07 AM Forget me. This would be for my Radiant Servant of Pelor cohort who uses DMM: Reach and DMM: Quicken

Then yes, it is absolutely better in every way and I can't imagine why you wouldn't do it. I think someone at WotC must have realized that taking the Healing Domain was completely useless otherwise.

Now forgive me if you know this already, but I can already see gears turning in the heads of everyone who reads this. Just for the record, "casting a spell from the healing domain" and "casting a domain spell from the healing domain" are two different things. With this alternate feature, you do spontaneously cast spells from a domain list, but they aren't actually domain spells, and so are not empowered, maximized, or whatever else by the Radiant Servant's abilities. You can only do with actual domain slots, of which you get only one per spell level per day.
Lyndis
02-02-08, 04:16 AM And the domain slots can of course be filled with Cure spells too. Go team cleric!
Captain_Kobold
02-02-08, 07:08 PM Now forgive me if you know this already, but I can already see gears turning in the heads of everyone who reads this. Just for the record, "casting a spell from the healing domain" and "casting a domain spell from the healing domain" are two different things. With this alternate feature, you do spontaneously cast spells from a domain list, but they aren't actually domain spells, and so are not empowered, maximized, or whatever else by the Radiant Servant's abilities. You can only do with actual domain slots, of which you get only one per spell level per day.

Are you sure that the Radiant servant of Pelor's abilities do not apply to spells from the healing domain cast from normal cleric spell slots?
I can't recall the actual text of the ability, but I do know that having the Healing Domain is not a requirement for the class.
dman11235
02-02-08, 11:18 PM It's not specific as to which spells, it only says healing domain spells. I take that to mean that it applies to any spell on the healing domain list, whether cast from your normal slots or not.

Also: +1 CL for all healing spells is nice, especially at lower levels.
mplindustries
02-03-08, 04:22 AM It's not specific as to which spells, it only says healing domain spells. I take that to mean that it applies to any spell on the healing domain list, whether cast from your normal slots or not.

Also: +1 CL for all healing spells is nice, especially at lower levels.

I actually used the exact wording earlier:

its when you cast "a domain spell from the healing domain." It must fulfill two requirements:

1) It must be a domain spell
2) It must be from the healing domain

So, at best, its once per day per spell level. And while it does not require that you have the Healing Domain, it does require that you have Pelor as a deity. What else are you going to take? The Good domain? Its also not the first time a prestige class provides a benefit to something it doesn't require you to have.
Divisionbyzer0
02-03-08, 04:29 AM Where can I read about the stuff you guys are talking about in this thread? Complete Divine?

What does ACF mean in lyndis' first post?

And this is unrelated but I see this "gish" term popping up here and there. What does this mean?

I'm kinda new to abbreviations and slang terms for D&D.
Captain_Kobold
02-03-08, 04:39 AM The Radiant servant of Pelor Prestige class is in Complete Divine.

ACF I think means Alternative Class Feature or something similar. It might be in the Players Handbook II.

I think the term 'gish' is used for an Arcane spellcaster/fighter mix. Took me yonks to work that one out.
Divisionbyzer0
02-03-08, 05:04 AM thank you.

these books have been going for under five bucks on ebay, so I'll probably get the Divine next.
dman11235
02-03-08, 02:33 PM If you need to brush up on board abbreviations, I have a link in my sig called the Dictionary of Terms. It'll help you out.

Now, I don't know of any other PrC that gives you a benefit to something you don't necessarily have. Care to enlighten me? And clever ways around the prereqs don't count.

If you play it that way, the class is restricted too much. Your two domain choices are already chosen for you (sun and healing). If you play it the way I do (and everyone I game with), you have the ability to choose one of your domains, thus giving yourself some variation on play style of the class. Also, I'd say that the prereqs (and playing restrictions) are not worth it if it's not done this way. Granted, it's quite powerful this way, but I'd rather have an overly powerful class that can be played down in power than an underpowered class that you just don't play (look at the druid and then the samurai).
Lyndis
02-03-08, 04:06 PM Maybe youcan empower/maximie *all* of your healing spells up to your Wisdom modifier multiplied by X, where X is the highest level of the divine spell you can cast?

So, if you can cast 6th level divine spells, you can use the empower/Maximize ability 6 * wisdom bonus times per day.
kalstrand
02-03-08, 10:04 PM The PrC specifically says a "domain spell from the healing domain" so it is only 1 spell/level and only if you have the healing domain.

I played a Radiant Servent with the Strenght and Sun domains knowing when I started that I would not be able to access those class abilities because the PrC is strong enough without them to make it worthwhile.

It gives a Cleric all martial weapons, full turning progression, full casting progression, a third domain, extra greater turnings, and a slew of other abilities besides the healing bonus.
mplindustries
02-03-08, 10:41 PM Maybe youcan empower/maximie *all* of your healing spells up to your Wisdom modifier multiplied by X, where X is the highest level of the divine spell you can cast?

So, if you can cast 6th level divine spells, you can use the empower/Maximize ability 6 * wisdom bonus times per day.

I have no idea where your numbers are coming from.

Now, I don't know of any other PrC that gives you a benefit to something you don't necessarily have. Care to enlighten me? And clever ways around the prereqs don't count.
Gladly. Of course, if you know me, I am going to go all out to prove this point. Sorry in advance (Sort of).

Ollam (CAdv) gets +spellcasting levels without requiring any spell casting.

Alienist (CArc) gives bonuses to your familiar (quite a few actually), but you are not required to have a familiar to get into the class. Several other class features provide bonuses to the Summon Monster line of spells, and not only can you qualify for the class as a Sorcerer who never decides to know any Summon Monster spells, you can easily qualify as a Druid who doesn't even get access to Summon Monster (or a familiar for that matter).i

Argent Savant (CArc) gets bonuses to attack and damage rolls with force spells, but you don't need to know force spells that utilize either kind of roll. They also get a bonus to force spells that give AC bonuses, but you could certainly take levels in argent savant without knowing any AC buffs. Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, for example would get no benefit from either ability.

Suel Arcanamach (CArc) gives you the ability to reduce arcane spell failure on armor, but does not require nor provide any armor proficiencies of any kind. Much as a cleric intending to take Radiant Servant of Pelor does not have to take the Healing domain and thus get benefit from several of their abilities, any character who wants to take Suel Arcanamach is equally free to not wear any armor and thus not get benefit from several of their abilities.

Wild Mage (CArc) gets the ability to roll twice when using "random" magic items, but never is required to own or use one.

Fist of the Forest (CChamp) gets its Con bonus to AC, but doesn't have to have a Con bonus. This can be said of many classes that I don't feel like listing. Invisible Blade gets Int to AC, a number of classes get Cha to saves, etc.

Abjurant Champion (CMage) requires only one abjuration spell, which could just as easily be alarm as Shield, but gets a massive boost to spells that provide armor or shield bonuses. Why would you want to be an Abjurant Champion if you don't know shield? I don't know, why would you want to be a Radiant Servant of Pelor without the Healing Domain?

Unseen Seer (CMage) provides a bonus to sneak attack, sudden strike, or skirmish, if you have any of those abilities. But you don't need to have them to qualify.

Cloaked Dancer (CScoundel) gives +caster levels without requiring any. Actually, from the same book, so does Fortune's Friend, Gray Guard, and Master of Masks.

Dervish (CW) gets bonuses to wielding scimitars, but does not have to, and is pretty likely to wield better weapons.

Duelist (DMG) Precise Strike only applies to light or one handed piercing weapons, but you are not required to wield one or even to be proficient in their use to qualify for the class.

I'm getting bored now, but I only glanced at about half of my books. If you need more examples, I can do more later. The end result is there are plenty of prestige classes that expect you to do X so as to take advantage of their features, but do not require X to take the class.

If you play it that way, the class is restricted too much. Your two domain choices are already chosen for you (sun and healing).
The class is not restricted too much, you simple don't get to use three of their abilities without picking a particular Domain. There are still 6 other abilities the Radiant Servant gets without taking the Healing Domain. Most prestige classes expect you to sacrifice a little variety for certain perks.

If you play it the way I do (and everyone I game with), you have the ability to choose one of your domains, thus giving yourself some variation on play style of the class. Also, I'd say that the prereqs (and playing restrictions) are not worth it if it's not done this way. Granted, it's quite powerful this way, but I'd rather have an overly powerful class that can be played down in power than an underpowered class that you just don't play (look at the druid and then the samurai).

You don't think that its worth taking unless you get virtually unlimited maximized empowered cure spells? Wow, what are your criteria for whether a class is worth it or not?
Lyndis
02-03-08, 10:46 PM My numbers? A proposal for a fair middle ground between: "All of my core healing spells are auto-maximized" and "They are only Maximized once and then that's it"

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lyndis 02-02-08, 02:46 AM	If someone has the Healing Domain, is there any reason not to take the Domain Spontaneity ACF for the Healing Domain of the cleric instead of having the normal spontenaeous casting of cure spells (assume you don't really care about the spells in your other domain)? This would allow you to spontaneous cast Heal, Rengerate, and Mass heal, in addition to what you could do before.
mplindustries 02-02-08, 02:56 AM	If someone has the Healing Domain, is there any reason not to take the Domain Spontaneity ACF for the Healing Domain of the cleric instead of having the normal spontenaeous casting of cure spells (assume you don't really care about the spells in your other domain)? This would allow you to spontaneous cast Heal, Rengerate, and Mass heal, in addition to what you could do before. Nope, its better. Assuming you want to heal of course. With great power comes great responsibility. Or more likely, great pressure to heal and do nothing else, even though you alone are probably just as good as the rest of your party combined if they'd just quit complaining. Unless you have a druid in your party. Or a high level wizard.
Lyndis 02-02-08, 03:14 AM	Forget me. This would be for my Radiant Servant of Pelor cohort who uses DMM: Reach and DMM: Quicken
mplindustries 02-02-08, 04:07 AM	Forget me. This would be for my Radiant Servant of Pelor cohort who uses DMM: Reach and DMM: Quicken Then yes, it is absolutely better in every way and I can't imagine why you wouldn't do it. I think someone at WotC must have realized that taking the Healing Domain was completely useless otherwise. Now forgive me if you know this already, but I can already see gears turning in the heads of everyone who reads this. Just for the record, "casting a spell from the healing domain" and "casting a domain spell from the healing domain" are two different things. With this alternate feature, you do spontaneously cast spells from a domain list, but they aren't actually domain spells, and so are not empowered, maximized, or whatever else by the Radiant Servant's abilities. You can only do with actual domain slots, of which you get only one per spell level per day.
Lyndis 02-02-08, 04:16 AM	And the domain slots can of course be filled with Cure spells too. Go team cleric!
Captain_Kobold 02-02-08, 07:08 PM	Now forgive me if you know this already, but I can already see gears turning in the heads of everyone who reads this. Just for the record, "casting a spell from the healing domain" and "casting a domain spell from the healing domain" are two different things. With this alternate feature, you do spontaneously cast spells from a domain list, but they aren't actually domain spells, and so are not empowered, maximized, or whatever else by the Radiant Servant's abilities. You can only do with actual domain slots, of which you get only one per spell level per day. Are you sure that the Radiant servant of Pelor's abilities do not apply to spells from the healing domain cast from normal cleric spell slots? I can't recall the actual text of the ability, but I do know that having the Healing Domain is not a requirement for the class.
dman11235 02-02-08, 11:18 PM	It's not specific as to which spells, it only says healing domain spells. I take that to mean that it applies to any spell on the healing domain list, whether cast from your normal slots or not. Also: +1 CL for all healing spells is nice, especially at lower levels.
mplindustries 02-03-08, 04:22 AM	It's not specific as to which spells, it only says healing domain spells. I take that to mean that it applies to any spell on the healing domain list, whether cast from your normal slots or not. Also: +1 CL for all healing spells is nice, especially at lower levels. I actually used the exact wording earlier: its when you cast "a domain spell from the healing domain." It must fulfill two requirements: 1) It must be a domain spell 2) It must be from the healing domain So, at best, its once per day per spell level. And while it does not require that you have the Healing Domain, it does require that you have Pelor as a deity. What else are you going to take? The Good domain? Its also not the first time a prestige class provides a benefit to something it doesn't require you to have.
Divisionbyzer0 02-03-08, 04:29 AM	Where can I read about the stuff you guys are talking about in this thread? Complete Divine? What does ACF mean in lyndis' first post? And this is unrelated but I see this "gish" term popping up here and there. What does this mean? I'm kinda new to abbreviations and slang terms for D&D.
Captain_Kobold 02-03-08, 04:39 AM	The Radiant servant of Pelor Prestige class is in Complete Divine. ACF I think means Alternative Class Feature or something similar. It might be in the Players Handbook II. I think the term 'gish' is used for an Arcane spellcaster/fighter mix. Took me yonks to work that one out.
Divisionbyzer0 02-03-08, 05:04 AM	thank you. these books have been going for under five bucks on ebay, so I'll probably get the Divine next.
dman11235 02-03-08, 02:33 PM	If you need to brush up on board abbreviations, I have a link in my sig called the Dictionary of Terms. It'll help you out. Now, I don't know of any other PrC that gives you a benefit to something you don't necessarily have. Care to enlighten me? And clever ways around the prereqs don't count. If you play it that way, the class is restricted too much. Your two domain choices are already chosen for you (sun and healing). If you play it the way I do (and everyone I game with), you have the ability to choose one of your domains, thus giving yourself some variation on play style of the class. Also, I'd say that the prereqs (and playing restrictions) are not worth it if it's not done this way. Granted, it's quite powerful this way, but I'd rather have an overly powerful class that can be played down in power than an underpowered class that you just don't play (look at the druid and then the samurai).
Lyndis 02-03-08, 04:06 PM	Maybe youcan empower/maximie all of your healing spells up to your Wisdom modifier multiplied by X, where X is the highest level of the divine spell you can cast? So, if you can cast 6th level divine spells, you can use the empower/Maximize ability 6 * wisdom bonus times per day.
kalstrand 02-03-08, 10:04 PM	The PrC specifically says a "domain spell from the healing domain" so it is only 1 spell/level and only if you have the healing domain. I played a Radiant Servent with the Strenght and Sun domains knowing when I started that I would not be able to access those class abilities because the PrC is strong enough without them to make it worthwhile. It gives a Cleric all martial weapons, full turning progression, full casting progression, a third domain, extra greater turnings, and a slew of other abilities besides the healing bonus.
mplindustries 02-03-08, 10:41 PM	Maybe youcan empower/maximie all of your healing spells up to your Wisdom modifier multiplied by X, where X is the highest level of the divine spell you can cast? So, if you can cast 6th level divine spells, you can use the empower/Maximize ability 6 * wisdom bonus times per day. I have no idea where your numbers are coming from. Now, I don't know of any other PrC that gives you a benefit to something you don't necessarily have. Care to enlighten me? And clever ways around the prereqs don't count. Gladly. Of course, if you know me, I am going to go all out to prove this point. Sorry in advance (Sort of). Ollam (CAdv) gets +spellcasting levels without requiring any spell casting. Alienist (CArc) gives bonuses to your familiar (quite a few actually), but you are not required to have a familiar to get into the class. Several other class features provide bonuses to the Summon Monster line of spells, and not only can you qualify for the class as a Sorcerer who never decides to know any Summon Monster spells, you can easily qualify as a Druid who doesn't even get access to Summon Monster (or a familiar for that matter).i Argent Savant (CArc) gets bonuses to attack and damage rolls with force spells, but you don't need to know force spells that utilize either kind of roll. They also get a bonus to force spells that give AC bonuses, but you could certainly take levels in argent savant without knowing any AC buffs. Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, for example would get no benefit from either ability. Suel Arcanamach (CArc) gives you the ability to reduce arcane spell failure on armor, but does not require nor provide any armor proficiencies of any kind. Much as a cleric intending to take Radiant Servant of Pelor does not have to take the Healing domain and thus get benefit from several of their abilities, any character who wants to take Suel Arcanamach is equally free to not wear any armor and thus not get benefit from several of their abilities. Wild Mage (CArc) gets the ability to roll twice when using "random" magic items, but never is required to own or use one. Fist of the Forest (CChamp) gets its Con bonus to AC, but doesn't have to have a Con bonus. This can be said of many classes that I don't feel like listing. Invisible Blade gets Int to AC, a number of classes get Cha to saves, etc. Abjurant Champion (CMage) requires only one abjuration spell, which could just as easily be alarm as Shield, but gets a massive boost to spells that provide armor or shield bonuses. Why would you want to be an Abjurant Champion if you don't know shield? I don't know, why would you want to be a Radiant Servant of Pelor without the Healing Domain? Unseen Seer (CMage) provides a bonus to sneak attack, sudden strike, or skirmish, if you have any of those abilities. But you don't need to have them to qualify. Cloaked Dancer (CScoundel) gives +caster levels without requiring any. Actually, from the same book, so does Fortune's Friend, Gray Guard, and Master of Masks. Dervish (CW) gets bonuses to wielding scimitars, but does not have to, and is pretty likely to wield better weapons. Duelist (DMG) Precise Strike only applies to light or one handed piercing weapons, but you are not required to wield one or even to be proficient in their use to qualify for the class. I'm getting bored now, but I only glanced at about half of my books. If you need more examples, I can do more later. The end result is there are plenty of prestige classes that expect you to do X so as to take advantage of their features, but do not require X to take the class. If you play it that way, the class is restricted too much. Your two domain choices are already chosen for you (sun and healing). The class is not restricted too much, you simple don't get to use three of their abilities without picking a particular Domain. There are still 6 other abilities the Radiant Servant gets without taking the Healing Domain. Most prestige classes expect you to sacrifice a little variety for certain perks. If you play it the way I do (and everyone I game with), you have the ability to choose one of your domains, thus giving yourself some variation on play style of the class. Also, I'd say that the prereqs (and playing restrictions) are not worth it if it's not done this way. Granted, it's quite powerful this way, but I'd rather have an overly powerful class that can be played down in power than an underpowered class that you just don't play (look at the druid and then the samurai). You don't think that its worth taking unless you get virtually unlimited maximized empowered cure spells? Wow, what are your criteria for whether a class is worth it or not?
Lyndis 02-03-08, 10:46 PM	My numbers? A proposal for a fair middle ground between: "All of my core healing spells are auto-maximized" and "They are only Maximized once and then that's it"