Draconic Cohort Feat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Draconic Cohort Feat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xippendollom Krakenwarren
02-28-07, 11:53 AM So, I have a character who is designed pretty much exclusively as a "leader type", but is a Dragonfire Adept/Marshal that is really (story wise) focused on exploring her draconic heritage and her different draconic abilities. At the end of our next session, we will be going up to level 6 (for me), and I will have to pick my new feat. The plan all along was for me to take Leadership and get a follower. I realized as I was flipping through some books before yesterday's session that I could take Draconic Cohort instead and get a Dragon as a follower instead of (or in addition to, I suppose) my regular follower.

So when I got home, I grabbed my Draconomicon and started looking up Draconic Cohort, and the way I'm reading it must be wrong. It's either that I'm reading something incorrectly or it is absolutely the most useless feat in the entire game.

Here's how I understand it:

At level 9, I will have 22 Charsima + whatever from magic items. Without any, that will put my leadership ability at 15, upgraded to 17 for "Great Renown" (checked with my DM already - it's a spoiled noble thing).

That means I could have a 12th level follower by the leadership rules, but it's capped at 7.

If I used the Draconic Cohort feat instead, I could have an ECL 10 cohort minus the 3 for the feat, putting it at 7.

Story wise, I really want a blue dragon. Reasons aren't important, but that means that my cohort will be a wyrmling blue dragon?

Wyrmling?

That's a CR 3 encounter (yes, I know the difference between ECL, EL and CR), and could be thoroughly mopped up by the level 7 follower that I would pick up, let alone by any CR 9 monsters that we might come across.

So am I doing something wrong, or is the feat just terribly underpowered?
tarkin
02-28-07, 03:57 PM The feat is a bit underpowered for your level. At higher levels, it is not underpowered at all. Part of the problem is they tried to use a formula, and the creatures are a bit too variable. The other part is that Dragons, and Blue Dragons in particular, have lots of things that are great for characters, but not so great for Cohorts. Things like a Burrow speed, a really nice fly speed, and blue dragons have a pretty high breath weapon.

Also, you care a lot about a high leadership score, and frankly, that is worthless. You need a high Character level, the leadership score boost does nothing for you without that CL.

Forget about trying to boost your Leadership score, it is not worth it unless you are the kind of person who really should not be taking leadership in the first place.
tiluvias99
02-28-07, 05:48 PM Uh... what? You treat the ECL of the Dragon as 3 lower than normal. That means, if you could normally only get an ECL 7 Dragon, you can instead get an ECL 10 one.
runestar
02-28-07, 09:56 PM Cohorts are a little underpowered at lower lvs. Wait until you are higher lv.:)
At lv20, for example, you can attract a ECL20 dragon.:)
Enderlaand
03-01-07, 02:00 PM I'm confused about the function of this ability. Does it stack with Leadership or replace it? Can I have a regular cohort (human fighter, say) AND a dragon cohort?

Also, is Dragon Cohort the best way to get a dragon as a mount?
Xippendollom Krakenwarren
03-01-07, 06:03 PM The feat is a bit underpowered for your level. At higher levels, it is not underpowered at all. Part of the problem is they tried to use a formula, and the creatures are a bit too variable. The other part is that Dragons, and Blue Dragons in particular, have lots of things that are great for characters, but not so great for Cohorts. Things like a Burrow speed, a really nice fly speed, and blue dragons have a pretty high breath weapon.

Also, you care a lot about a high leadership score, and frankly, that is worthless. You need a high Character level, the leadership score boost does nothing for you without that CL.

Forget about trying to boost your Leadership score, it is not worth it unless you are the kind of person who really should not be taking leadership in the first place.

Believe me, I'm not trying to boost my leadership score. My 'role' is to basically be the face, and that tends to lend itself to a good leadership score.

I'm not so sure that I agree that the feat is really good at high levels. If I look ahead to 19th level, I would be able to pick up a Juvenile Green Dragon. It's a CR 8 monster. No damage reduction, 1st level spells, no frightful presence, nothing fantastic for a breath weapon, etc.

I can't think of a single EL 19 encounter that said cohort isn't going to be killed in. For a different feat (leadership instead of draconic cohort), I could have a 17th level wizard throwing around meteor swarms or a 17th level dwarven defender with 6/- damage reduction and 300+ hit points.

I just don't see the balance.
runestar
03-02-07, 01:42 AM I'm confused about the function of this ability. Does it stack with Leadership or replace it? Can I have a regular cohort (human fighter, say) AND a dragon cohort?
I think you are allowed to have both. I see nothing prohibiting you from acquiring both.:)
The_Shaman
03-02-07, 09:37 AM BTW, a draconic cohort can get class levels, right? I'm thinking about getting a pseudodragon and making a bard out of it :D
Manus
03-02-07, 01:59 PM If you have both the leadership and dragon cohort feats, then you get followers (from leadership) a normal cohort (from leadership) and a second, draconic, cohort (from dragon cohort).

Is this the best way to get a dragon mount? Only at high levels. Remember, your mount has to be one size category bigger than you. So if you're a halfling or other small size race, you can probably get a dragon mount with feat between 10th and 14th level (if memory serves from the last time I figured this out. I don't have my books handy.) If you're human sized, you're looking at mid to late teens.
Enderlaand
03-04-07, 07:19 AM Thanks,
I've got a player looking forward to the Dragon Rider PrC. I don't remember now what level he qualifies exactly, but I think it's around 8 or 9. He'll likely want to have a befriended dragon before that. I'm just looking for the best way to get one.
keith187
03-04-07, 02:10 PM Hopefully your PC is small sized otherwise he'll be waiting a long time to be able to use his dragon cohort as a mount.

A small sized PC would need to be lvl 11, and have a leadership score capable of getting an ECL 8. A medium sized PC would need to be lvl 15, and have a leadership score capable of getting an ECL 12. You'll never get a dragon cohort that can carry a large rider pre epic. Add three to all those numbers if your PC takes leadership over dragon cohort, which means he's spending most of his non epic adventuring carrier without a dragon mount.

This is all assuming that the PC doesn't have access to any size altering magic. If the PC asks the party wizard I'm sure he could research a spell that acts like enlarge person but for dragons, or could just use reduce person to make the rider smaller.

A small sized creature reduced could ride his dragon cohort as soon as he gets the feat provided he aquires a white dragon, or level 10 if he doesn't want a white.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xippendollom Krakenwarren 02-28-07, 11:53 AM	So, I have a character who is designed pretty much exclusively as a "leader type", but is a Dragonfire Adept/Marshal that is really (story wise) focused on exploring her draconic heritage and her different draconic abilities. At the end of our next session, we will be going up to level 6 (for me), and I will have to pick my new feat. The plan all along was for me to take Leadership and get a follower. I realized as I was flipping through some books before yesterday's session that I could take Draconic Cohort instead and get a Dragon as a follower instead of (or in addition to, I suppose) my regular follower. So when I got home, I grabbed my Draconomicon and started looking up Draconic Cohort, and the way I'm reading it must be wrong. It's either that I'm reading something incorrectly or it is absolutely the most useless feat in the entire game. Here's how I understand it: At level 9, I will have 22 Charsima + whatever from magic items. Without any, that will put my leadership ability at 15, upgraded to 17 for "Great Renown" (checked with my DM already - it's a spoiled noble thing). That means I could have a 12th level follower by the leadership rules, but it's capped at 7. If I used the Draconic Cohort feat instead, I could have an ECL 10 cohort minus the 3 for the feat, putting it at 7. Story wise, I really want a blue dragon. Reasons aren't important, but that means that my cohort will be a wyrmling blue dragon? Wyrmling? That's a CR 3 encounter (yes, I know the difference between ECL, EL and CR), and could be thoroughly mopped up by the level 7 follower that I would pick up, let alone by any CR 9 monsters that we might come across. So am I doing something wrong, or is the feat just terribly underpowered?
tarkin 02-28-07, 03:57 PM	The feat is a bit underpowered for your level. At higher levels, it is not underpowered at all. Part of the problem is they tried to use a formula, and the creatures are a bit too variable. The other part is that Dragons, and Blue Dragons in particular, have lots of things that are great for characters, but not so great for Cohorts. Things like a Burrow speed, a really nice fly speed, and blue dragons have a pretty high breath weapon. Also, you care a lot about a high leadership score, and frankly, that is worthless. You need a high Character level, the leadership score boost does nothing for you without that CL. Forget about trying to boost your Leadership score, it is not worth it unless you are the kind of person who really should not be taking leadership in the first place.
tiluvias99 02-28-07, 05:48 PM	Uh... what? You treat the ECL of the Dragon as 3 lower than normal. That means, if you could normally only get an ECL 7 Dragon, you can instead get an ECL 10 one.
runestar 02-28-07, 09:56 PM	Cohorts are a little underpowered at lower lvs. Wait until you are higher lv.:) At lv20, for example, you can attract a ECL20 dragon.:)
Enderlaand 03-01-07, 02:00 PM	I'm confused about the function of this ability. Does it stack with Leadership or replace it? Can I have a regular cohort (human fighter, say) AND a dragon cohort? Also, is Dragon Cohort the best way to get a dragon as a mount?
Xippendollom Krakenwarren 03-01-07, 06:03 PM	The feat is a bit underpowered for your level. At higher levels, it is not underpowered at all. Part of the problem is they tried to use a formula, and the creatures are a bit too variable. The other part is that Dragons, and Blue Dragons in particular, have lots of things that are great for characters, but not so great for Cohorts. Things like a Burrow speed, a really nice fly speed, and blue dragons have a pretty high breath weapon. Also, you care a lot about a high leadership score, and frankly, that is worthless. You need a high Character level, the leadership score boost does nothing for you without that CL. Forget about trying to boost your Leadership score, it is not worth it unless you are the kind of person who really should not be taking leadership in the first place. Believe me, I'm not trying to boost my leadership score. My 'role' is to basically be the face, and that tends to lend itself to a good leadership score. I'm not so sure that I agree that the feat is really good at high levels. If I look ahead to 19th level, I would be able to pick up a Juvenile Green Dragon. It's a CR 8 monster. No damage reduction, 1st level spells, no frightful presence, nothing fantastic for a breath weapon, etc. I can't think of a single EL 19 encounter that said cohort isn't going to be killed in. For a different feat (leadership instead of draconic cohort), I could have a 17th level wizard throwing around meteor swarms or a 17th level dwarven defender with 6/- damage reduction and 300+ hit points. I just don't see the balance.
runestar 03-02-07, 01:42 AM	I'm confused about the function of this ability. Does it stack with Leadership or replace it? Can I have a regular cohort (human fighter, say) AND a dragon cohort? I think you are allowed to have both. I see nothing prohibiting you from acquiring both.:)
The_Shaman 03-02-07, 09:37 AM	BTW, a draconic cohort can get class levels, right? I'm thinking about getting a pseudodragon and making a bard out of it :D
Manus 03-02-07, 01:59 PM	If you have both the leadership and dragon cohort feats, then you get followers (from leadership) a normal cohort (from leadership) and a second, draconic, cohort (from dragon cohort). Is this the best way to get a dragon mount? Only at high levels. Remember, your mount has to be one size category bigger than you. So if you're a halfling or other small size race, you can probably get a dragon mount with feat between 10th and 14th level (if memory serves from the last time I figured this out. I don't have my books handy.) If you're human sized, you're looking at mid to late teens.
Enderlaand 03-04-07, 07:19 AM	Thanks, I've got a player looking forward to the Dragon Rider PrC. I don't remember now what level he qualifies exactly, but I think it's around 8 or 9. He'll likely want to have a befriended dragon before that. I'm just looking for the best way to get one.
keith187 03-04-07, 02:10 PM	Hopefully your PC is small sized otherwise he'll be waiting a long time to be able to use his dragon cohort as a mount. A small sized PC would need to be lvl 11, and have a leadership score capable of getting an ECL 8. A medium sized PC would need to be lvl 15, and have a leadership score capable of getting an ECL 12. You'll never get a dragon cohort that can carry a large rider pre epic. Add three to all those numbers if your PC takes leadership over dragon cohort, which means he's spending most of his non epic adventuring carrier without a dragon mount. This is all assuming that the PC doesn't have access to any size altering magic. If the PC asks the party wizard I'm sure he could research a spell that acts like enlarge person but for dragons, or could just use reduce person to make the rider smaller. A small sized creature reduced could ride his dragon cohort as soon as he gets the feat provided he aquires a white dragon, or level 10 if he doesn't want a white.