Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tivs 04-04-08, 04:42 AM	Question: Aside from role playing someone who uses 2 weapons, what is the point of Dual-Wielding from a damage point of view? (only using the PHB for feats) Case A: Fighter 1 Two mundane Short Swords Two-Weapon Fighting Ambidexterity Result: Attack: -1/-1 Damage: 1d6 19-20/x2 Average Damage assuming you hit: 7 ---- Case B: Fighter 1 Great Sword Weapon Focus Result: Attack: +2 Damage: 2d6 19-20/x2 Average Damage assuming you hit: 7 Thoughts: It seems like wielding one 2 handed weapon is more effective causes of equivalent damage (assuming you hit with both while dual wielding) Chance to hit with 2handed is higher Dual wielding requires multiple feats Dual wielding requires a full attack action. 2 weapons are more expensive than one
Sockslayer 04-04-08, 06:16 AM	It's mostly for characters who get bonus damage on each attack, like sneak attack for rogues. I think the math has been done more than a few times on these forums, so if you want to know the details you should look for those. Also, 2-weapon fighting is just cool :cool:
BugHunter 04-04-08, 09:04 AM	If you are saying that ambidexterity is required for two-weapon fighting that feat was removed in 3.5 so that would give an other feat to be used for something like two-weapon defense. Your other statements are true.
Tordak 04-04-08, 09:30 AM	well perhaps at first level it isn't, and it is if you weild a long sword in your primary hand instead (not by much though). At higher level, you get the possibility to use more attack action feat, even if only using th PHB, like improved sunder for example. Also you could have 2 magic weapon granting you different bonus (like one could be defending and wounding, while the other as the speed and mighty cleaving enchantement). But you're right, using 2 weapon as no real advantage over a good 2-handed or else everyone would use 2 weapon. It requires a lot of feat to become a really good 2-weapon weilder. 2-handed only require a good strengh.
Krusk 04-04-08, 10:10 AM	It is for people with precision based damage, such as rogues and the like. As sneak attack damage is done with both hits the total damage dealt stacks up very quickly.
HARLEYDUDE 04-04-08, 11:41 AM	To expand on what BugHunter and Tordak mentioned, having 2 weapons also lets you have 2 types of damage to bypass DR. Like a mace in one hand and sword in other. (bludgeoning and slashing) Also it allows for different materials for bypassing DR. (cold iron and silver) HD
sundance8503 04-04-08, 02:19 PM	That and you aren't putting all your eggs in one basket in one hit. You now have two hits could hit or miss, instead of just one. D
ciaran 04-05-08, 02:21 PM	Your math is missing too many factors, such as strength damge.
dagerron 04-07-08, 08:46 PM	the difference between the 2h swords and dw is that w/ 2h swords, u can get more dmg w/ one swing, not quite as consistant dmg as dw. so it can mean all or nothing. w/ dw u hav a somewhat closer dmg range. i choose greatswords but thats wut i like.
StruckingFuggle 04-07-08, 10:48 PM	To expand on what BugHunter and Tordak mentioned, having 2 weapons also lets you have 2 types of damage to bypass DR. Like a mace in one hand and sword in other. (bludgeoning and slashing) Also it allows for different materials for bypassing DR. (cold iron and silver) HD Arguably, logically, you can do the same thing without using Two Weapon Fighting by just using the basic attacks with either a weapon in one hand, or a different weapon in the other; though that's just kinda silly.
Divisionbyzer0 04-08-08, 01:23 AM	So why would the fighter go with two mundane short swords? To max his weapon focus I'm assuming? I go with a long sword and a short sword or a battle axe and a hand axe or a heavy flail and a handaxe or something like this.
DrakoShade 04-08-08, 03:57 PM	Personally, I've always liked EWP'd bastard sword x2 with Oversized TWF. Example: Fighter 20 Two-Weapon Fighting Improved Two-Weapon Fighting Greater Two-Weapon Fighting Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting Exotic Weapon Prof. (Bastard Sword) Result: +18/+13/+8/+3 main hand, +18/+13/+8 off-hand. Both weapons deal base 1d10, crit 19-20/x2. One out of every ten swings should crit, and you're taking seven swings a round. Average damage, if all swings hit, is 38.5 without crits. IIRC, it's 1x Str for the main-hand, and 0.5 Str for the off-hand, so add 5.5x your Str modifier. Let's make it cheesier. Both bastard swords are keen. One is flaming burst, the other shocking burst. Both are also +1 bastard swords of speed. Thus, +7 weapons total, roughly 200,000 gp spent. That's now +18/+18/+13/+8/+3 and +18/+18/+13/+8. 9d10 slashing + 5d6 fire + 4d6 lightning, plus strength bonus x 7 with odds at 1/5 swung 9 times leaving a high likelihood of at least 1 crit per round, which adds another 1d10 slashing and 1d10 fire/electricity and another 1 or 1/2 x your strength bonus. Average without crit: 81 + str mod x 7. Average with crit: 92 + str mod x 7.75. Overall average: 83.2 + str mod x 7.1. Average per-round output, barring misses: 748.8 + str mod x 7.1. If the fighter's strength is 15(+2), that'll be 763 damage per full attack. Now, let's compare vs. a greatsword. I used 5 feats to get the damage above, so let's look at how we can boost here. Weapon Focus (Greatsword) Weapon Specialization (Greatsword) Greater Weapon Focus (Greatsword) Greater Weapon Specialization (Greatsword) Improved Critical (Greatsword) Let's also build a Greatsword that hurts the target a lot, worth about 200,000 gp. We don't need Keen, which saves us a +1, so let's give it Flaming Burst, Icy Burst, Shocking Burst, Speed, +1 weapon. Total +10, the sword now deals 2d6 slashing, 1d6 fire, 1d6 ice, and 1d6 electricity on every hit. On top of those 5d6, you have a 1/5 shot of critting and adding an extra 2d6 + 3d10 (thanks to your feat doubling your range.) I'll be generous. This fighter doesn't need a 19 in Dex, so I'll say he has a 23 in Str instead of a 15. Bam, he now has a +6. We swing 5 times a round for 165.5 damage overall. Please, somebody, tell me if I'm doing my math wrong. I'm completely exhausted. If I didn't screw up royally, then the TWF wins over mr. Greatsword by almost 600 damage per round. Edit: Crap, I didn't include the bonuses for Weapon Specialization. Greatsword deals an extra 24 damage per round in that case, dropping the difference to only about 570.
Salla 04-08-08, 07:26 PM	So why would the fighter go with two mundane short swords? To max his weapon focus I'm assuming? I go with a long sword and a short sword or a battle axe and a hand axe or a heavy flail and a handaxe or something like this. And Specialization, and Improved Critical, and ... basically, all those 'pick a weapon' feats that fighters get saddled with because Fighters Can't Have Nice Things.
ciaran 04-08-08, 09:03 PM	This requires a level playing field. 32 point buy, 20th level, human, +10 weapon, 1 item of ability score +6 Let at least one person max out either the two-weapon style or the two-handed style but not both.
squidyak 04-08-08, 10:43 PM	As everyone's pointed out, two-weapon fighting is generally inferior to a two handed weapon. The only time I have a fighter using two weapons is if I focus on defense and want two-weapon defense.
BronzeBeard 04-09-08, 06:35 AM	Question: Aside from role playing someone who uses 2 weapons, what is the point of Dual-Wielding from a damage point of view? (only using the PHB for feats) Case A: Fighter 1 Two mundane Short Swords Two-Weapon Fighting Ambidexterity Result: Attack: -1/-1 Damage: 1d6 19-20/x2 Average Damage assuming you hit: 7 ---- Case B: Fighter 1 Great Sword Weapon Focus Result: Attack: +2 Damage: 2d6 19-20/x2 Average Damage assuming you hit: 7 Thoughts: It seems like wielding one 2 handed weapon is more effective causes of equivalent damage (assuming you hit with both while dual wielding) Chance to hit with 2handed is higher Dual wielding requires multiple feats Dual wielding requires a full attack action. 2 weapons are more expensive than one First thing first - Ambidexterity has been deleted on the 3 -> 3.5 transfer (yay! :D ) As for the real question, the answer is not a strait-forward (spelling) one. As you can take each of them and build a different type each and everytime you start. For example: 2-handed Biggest weapon availabe + monkey grip + power attack = Damage. Reach weapon + imp. trip feat = Locking down enemies. 2-Weapon Chain spike. More attacks with a monk An interesting build with Halberd + Short Haft feat. So... you see, the answer you actually need answered is, what the heck should I use ____ for? And the answer is: 2-handed You have low abilities. You want to deal high damage. You have access to 30+ feats to enhance you weapon use. 2-Weapon You have increasment in damage when you strike (like, Sudden strike, sneak attack) And that's from the top of my head. I bet others can give you more.
narack 04-09-08, 07:39 AM	Two weapon fighting is obviously dealing more damage since you can have 3 extra attack at the end that mean 3 more chance to crit plus the extra damage from all those attacks. The main difference is the feat usage. A good two weapon fighting fighter will throw at least 50% of their feat in this branch while the normal fighter using shield and sword or two handed weapon will invest in other feats.
BronzeBeard 04-09-08, 09:36 AM	Two weapon fighting is obviously dealing more damage since you can have 3 extra attack at the end that mean 3 more chance to crit plus the extra damage from all those attacks. The main difference is the feat usage. A good two weapon fighting fighter will throw at least 50% of their feat in this branch while the normal fighter using shield and sword or two handed weapon will invest in other feats. You're forgettin that you are doing less damage since you have less chance of hitting. And even thought the -2 doesn't seem such a big fuss - normal fighter would already have a couple of feats invested that would benefit him with +2 or more to his non-2-weapon-style. =D