Education Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Education Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AmericanPirate
12-09-07, 03:44 AM This is my first go at creating any feats. I made these for a new base character class I made (also a first), the Technologist (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=14537030#post14537030). Anyway, tell me what you think (and go check out the new class, too while you're at it ;) )

New Feats

Associate's Education
Prerequisite: Int 12, Character Creation OR Must have spent time at a College/University
Benefit: Choose one College from Table 1-2: Colleges. The associated Skills are now Class Skills. Additionally, for every 3 Skill points you put towards this Feat you receive 4 Skill points to apply to the Skills associated with the chosen College. For example, if you chose Optics and gave up 3 skill points to this Feat you would then have 4 skill points to use for the skills of Craft: Hologram, Craft: Lenses, Knowledge: Light, or Knowledge: the Planes.

Bachelor's Education
Prerequisite: Int 14, Associate's Education from the same College, Lvl. 4, must spend time at a College/University.
Benefit: As the Associate's Education with the following exception. For every 3 Skill points you put towards this Feat you receive 6 Skill points to apply to the Skills associated with the chosen College.

Master's Education
Prerequisite: Int 16, Bachelor's Education from the same College, Lvl. 8, must spend time at a College/University.
Benefit: As the Associate's Education with the following exception. For every 3 Skill points you put towards this Feat you receive 9 Skill points to apply to the Skills associated with the chosen College.

Ph.D Education
Prerequisite: Int 18, Master's Education from the same College, Lvl. 12, must spend time at a College/University.
Benefit: As the Associate's Education with the following exception. For every 3 Skill points you put towards this Feat you receive 12 Skill points to apply to the Skills associated with the chosen College.

Table 1-2: Colleges

College Craft Skills Knowledge Skills Other Skills

Athleticism none none Balance, Climb,
Jump, Swim, Tumble

Chemistry Alchemy, Chemical Engineering none
Chemicals, Poison,
Potions

Diplomacy Contract Geography, History, Bluff, Diplomacy,
Nobility & Royalty, Gather Information,
Religion Intimidate, Speak Language

Demolitions Bombs, Grenades, Civil Engineering, Disable Device (Bomb)
Ammunition, Siege Weapons
Siege Weapons

Electromagnetics Communications, Electrical Engineering Disable Device (Electric)
Electronics,
Magnetics

Engineering Clockwork, Locks, Architecture, Disable Device (Mechanical),
Trapmaking, Vehicles, Classical Physics, Open Lock
War Machines Mechanical Engineering

Medicine Bandages, Elixers Anatomy & Physiology, Heal
Disease, Herbalism,
Psychology

Optics Hologram, Illusion, Light, the Planes none
Lenses

Outdoorsmanship Bowmaking, Carpentry, Geography, Nature Handle Animal, Ride,
Leatherworking, Snares Survival, Use Rope

Smithing Advanced Metals, Metalurgy none
Armor, Iron Works,
m o n k
12-09-07, 04:00 PM The Intelligence prereqs seem high. ;)
Jaxgaret
12-09-07, 05:13 PM The Intelligence prereqs seem high. ;)

Agreed. I would change them to 8/10/12/14.

The level requirements are also too high, or actually unnecessary. Take a look at this article (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html) for some reasons for that. Also, studying in a university doesn't provide any in-game EXP. Only overcoming challenges does, which may also be happening at the same time as a university education, but the two are not linked or related in any way.
AmericanPirate
12-09-07, 11:45 PM Complete Revamp
I was looking at the system as I had it and realized that it's not very representative of how an actual education progresses from the broad to the very specific. SO, the Colleges are remaining the same, but the Feats are changing significantly.

Associate's Education
Prereq: Int 10
Benefit: Pick a College. You may choose 4 skills from that college and add them to your Skill list. Additionally, you gain 15 skill points to spend only on those skills. If there are any excess points (from reaching the skill point cap) you may spend 1/2 (round down) of those points on other skills in the College.

Bachelor's Education
Prereq: Int 12, Associate's Education
Benefit: Choose 3 of the 4 skills from your Associate's. You get up to 5 skill points to put towards those 3 skills. Additionally, you gain an inherrent +2 bonus to two of those skills.

Master's Education
Prereq: Int 14, Bachelor's Education
Benefit: You get up to 6 skill points to put towards the 2 skills from your Bachelor's Education that received the +2 bonuses. Additionally, the skill point cap for one of those skills expands to character level + 5.

Ph.D Education
Prereq: Int 16, Master's Education
Benefit: You get up to 7 skill points to put towards the skill from your Master's Education that had its skill point cap raised. Additionally, you may take a 10 on that Skill under any circumstance.

Post-Doctorate Education
Prereq: Int 18, Associate's Education, Ph.D Education
Benefit: A legend in your field, you can add 1/2 your character level to skill checks for all of the other three non-Ph.D Education skills from your Associate's Education. Additionally, you can add your whole character level to the skill selected for your Ph.D.
Jaxgaret
12-10-07, 05:41 PM You do know that a 10 Int is average, right? There are plenty of below average people with associate's degrees, and plenty of average people with bachelor's degrees.

Drop all of the requisite Int scores by at least 2.
AmericanPirate
12-10-07, 06:42 PM Yes, I do know 10 is average. And yes, I know a few below average people with associates degrees; and I would say that the vast majority of undergrads at 4-year institutions are just about at the average mark. That's why they call it "average", because most everybody is rather similar to their neighbor. Anyway, this is a preface into my reasoning for the Int prereq as staying as it is.

1) The first (and probably most primitive) argument against the change is that this is a game in which the characters can ultimately ascend into godhood. As such, things don't necessarily have to conform to the precise reality of the situation.

I did read the article you presented on D&D vs. Reality, and, as an asside, I would like to thank you for showing that to me. It was quite good. Regardless though, if you paid attention to the stats they were using, they were basically comparing an average person in D&D to an average person out here. The whole "levels 1 though 5 are perfectly representable as normal, and above normal" argument works great as long as you stick to the Average array. Most D&D characters already begin at 1st level as well above average. Therefore, from a metagame perspective, these prereqs need to be commensurable with the PC abilities, and not the NPCs.

2) Secondly, these feats were created for a steampunk or otherwise Victorian setting where just about the only ones that went to college were the ones that could afford it. By being able to afford a university at that time period, it generally also meant that they were able to afford prep-schooling as well, meaning that their intellect was generally already superior to the common laborer. Furthermore, considder that it was not that long ago when all that was required of a person to have, not just a job, but a good job, was a high school diploma, much less a college degree of some sort.

Now, the two points above being said, if you like the feats but disagree with the Int requirements, then by all means, change them for your campaign. I happen to feel that they are accurate for both the metagame (PC's compared to the world around them), and the my in game environment (Victorian steampunk).

All of the above asside, what do you think of the actual feats and what they do?

Thanks for your input.
StevenO
12-10-07, 06:58 PM Are these "feats" intended for use in DnD as they seem like they'd be more appropriate in D20 Modern or such?

All the feats I can think of have ODD ability score prereqs which means you need to add/subtract one point from all those even numbers. While you may be able to justify a prereq of Int 9/11 at that point I'd drop the prereq entirely; plenty of less intelligent people can get associate degrees. After that I'd step the prereqs at Int 13/15/17/...

Now for the actual feat mechanics I think the earlier ones offer too much bang (skill points) for the buck (feat) as the conversion has been set at five skill points for a feat. After that these feats may focus all those skill points into a single skill but if any "normal" skill points get put into that skill it will easily hit its cap.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AmericanPirate 12-09-07, 03:44 AM	This is my first go at creating any feats. I made these for a new base character class I made (also a first), the Technologist (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=14537030#post14537030). Anyway, tell me what you think (and go check out the new class, too while you're at it ;) ) New Feats Associate's Education Prerequisite: Int 12, Character Creation OR Must have spent time at a College/University Benefit: Choose one College from Table 1-2: Colleges. The associated Skills are now Class Skills. Additionally, for every 3 Skill points you put towards this Feat you receive 4 Skill points to apply to the Skills associated with the chosen College. For example, if you chose Optics and gave up 3 skill points to this Feat you would then have 4 skill points to use for the skills of Craft: Hologram, Craft: Lenses, Knowledge: Light, or Knowledge: the Planes. Bachelor's Education Prerequisite: Int 14, Associate's Education from the same College, Lvl. 4, must spend time at a College/University. Benefit: As the Associate's Education with the following exception. For every 3 Skill points you put towards this Feat you receive 6 Skill points to apply to the Skills associated with the chosen College. Master's Education Prerequisite: Int 16, Bachelor's Education from the same College, Lvl. 8, must spend time at a College/University. Benefit: As the Associate's Education with the following exception. For every 3 Skill points you put towards this Feat you receive 9 Skill points to apply to the Skills associated with the chosen College. Ph.D Education Prerequisite: Int 18, Master's Education from the same College, Lvl. 12, must spend time at a College/University. Benefit: As the Associate's Education with the following exception. For every 3 Skill points you put towards this Feat you receive 12 Skill points to apply to the Skills associated with the chosen College. Table 1-2: Colleges College Craft Skills Knowledge Skills Other Skills Athleticism none none Balance, Climb, Jump, Swim, Tumble Chemistry Alchemy, Chemical Engineering none Chemicals, Poison, Potions Diplomacy Contract Geography, History, Bluff, Diplomacy, Nobility & Royalty, Gather Information, Religion Intimidate, Speak Language Demolitions Bombs, Grenades, Civil Engineering, Disable Device (Bomb) Ammunition, Siege Weapons Siege Weapons Electromagnetics Communications, Electrical Engineering Disable Device (Electric) Electronics, Magnetics Engineering Clockwork, Locks, Architecture, Disable Device (Mechanical), Trapmaking, Vehicles, Classical Physics, Open Lock War Machines Mechanical Engineering Medicine Bandages, Elixers Anatomy & Physiology, Heal Disease, Herbalism, Psychology Optics Hologram, Illusion, Light, the Planes none Lenses Outdoorsmanship Bowmaking, Carpentry, Geography, Nature Handle Animal, Ride, Leatherworking, Snares Survival, Use Rope Smithing Advanced Metals, Metalurgy none Armor, Iron Works,
m o n k 12-09-07, 04:00 PM	The Intelligence prereqs seem high. ;)
Jaxgaret 12-09-07, 05:13 PM	The Intelligence prereqs seem high. ;) Agreed. I would change them to 8/10/12/14. The level requirements are also too high, or actually unnecessary. Take a look at this article (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html) for some reasons for that. Also, studying in a university doesn't provide any in-game EXP. Only overcoming challenges does, which may also be happening at the same time as a university education, but the two are not linked or related in any way.
AmericanPirate 12-09-07, 11:45 PM	Complete Revamp I was looking at the system as I had it and realized that it's not very representative of how an actual education progresses from the broad to the very specific. SO, the Colleges are remaining the same, but the Feats are changing significantly. Associate's Education Prereq: Int 10 Benefit: Pick a College. You may choose 4 skills from that college and add them to your Skill list. Additionally, you gain 15 skill points to spend only on those skills. If there are any excess points (from reaching the skill point cap) you may spend 1/2 (round down) of those points on other skills in the College. Bachelor's Education Prereq: Int 12, Associate's Education Benefit: Choose 3 of the 4 skills from your Associate's. You get up to 5 skill points to put towards those 3 skills. Additionally, you gain an inherrent +2 bonus to two of those skills. Master's Education Prereq: Int 14, Bachelor's Education Benefit: You get up to 6 skill points to put towards the 2 skills from your Bachelor's Education that received the +2 bonuses. Additionally, the skill point cap for one of those skills expands to character level + 5. Ph.D Education Prereq: Int 16, Master's Education Benefit: You get up to 7 skill points to put towards the skill from your Master's Education that had its skill point cap raised. Additionally, you may take a 10 on that Skill under any circumstance. Post-Doctorate Education Prereq: Int 18, Associate's Education, Ph.D Education Benefit: A legend in your field, you can add 1/2 your character level to skill checks for all of the other three non-Ph.D Education skills from your Associate's Education. Additionally, you can add your whole character level to the skill selected for your Ph.D.
Jaxgaret 12-10-07, 05:41 PM	You do know that a 10 Int is average, right? There are plenty of below average people with associate's degrees, and plenty of average people with bachelor's degrees. Drop all of the requisite Int scores by at least 2.
AmericanPirate 12-10-07, 06:42 PM	Yes, I do know 10 is average. And yes, I know a few below average people with associates degrees; and I would say that the vast majority of undergrads at 4-year institutions are just about at the average mark. That's why they call it "average", because most everybody is rather similar to their neighbor. Anyway, this is a preface into my reasoning for the Int prereq as staying as it is. 1) The first (and probably most primitive) argument against the change is that this is a game in which the characters can ultimately ascend into godhood. As such, things don't necessarily have to conform to the precise reality of the situation. I did read the article you presented on D&D vs. Reality, and, as an asside, I would like to thank you for showing that to me. It was quite good. Regardless though, if you paid attention to the stats they were using, they were basically comparing an average person in D&D to an average person out here. The whole "levels 1 though 5 are perfectly representable as normal, and above normal" argument works great as long as you stick to the Average array. Most D&D characters already begin at 1st level as well above average. Therefore, from a metagame perspective, these prereqs need to be commensurable with the PC abilities, and not the NPCs. 2) Secondly, these feats were created for a steampunk or otherwise Victorian setting where just about the only ones that went to college were the ones that could afford it. By being able to afford a university at that time period, it generally also meant that they were able to afford prep-schooling as well, meaning that their intellect was generally already superior to the common laborer. Furthermore, considder that it was not that long ago when all that was required of a person to have, not just a job, but a good job, was a high school diploma, much less a college degree of some sort. Now, the two points above being said, if you like the feats but disagree with the Int requirements, then by all means, change them for your campaign. I happen to feel that they are accurate for both the metagame (PC's compared to the world around them), and the my in game environment (Victorian steampunk). All of the above asside, what do you think of the actual feats and what they do? Thanks for your input.
StevenO 12-10-07, 06:58 PM	Are these "feats" intended for use in DnD as they seem like they'd be more appropriate in D20 Modern or such? All the feats I can think of have ODD ability score prereqs which means you need to add/subtract one point from all those even numbers. While you may be able to justify a prereq of Int 9/11 at that point I'd drop the prereq entirely; plenty of less intelligent people can get associate degrees. After that I'd step the prereqs at Int 13/15/17/... Now for the actual feat mechanics I think the earlier ones offer too much bang (skill points) for the buck (feat) as the conversion has been set at five skill points for a feat. After that these feats may focus all those skill points into a single skill but if any "normal" skill points get put into that skill it will easily hit its cap.