Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Keladelros 06-21-07, 01:14 AM	A player recently told me that he would be able to play a warlock/rogue and that the eldritch blast damage and the sneak attack damage would stack. I brought up the issue that if that were possible that rays would stack with sneak attack... he says they would. I, in my 'wisdom', decided to consult the other knowledgable players/DM's who I continuously love to argue with... (love you guys)... Tell me your thoughts and help me out with this one... tell me what you think plz.
choant 06-21-07, 01:17 AM	yes sir... he can sneak attack with a ray.
Keladelros 06-21-07, 01:20 AM	if i could get a page number... etc... that'd really help
Kouk 06-21-07, 02:23 AM	It is not clearly explained in the PHB, other than something like "ranged weapons within 30 feet". In the book Complete Arcane, they elaborate upon using spells and various other abilities. The premise is, that spells which require attack rolls, such as touch and ranged touch (including rays) are treated as attacks for purposes of feats and most abilities. These spells are "Weapon-like", and can be treated as if they were weapons. Page 72 of the Complete Arcane goes over feats which work, including Improved Critical, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus. These are based on the "Weapon types" of Ranged Spells, and Touch Spells, such that you can take Weapon Focus(Touch) for all spells that are delivered via a touch attack roll. Ranged includes ranged touch, and rays, and spell effects that may create things requiring normal ranged attack rolls. Starting on page 85, they go over what it means to be a "Weaponlike" spell. Basically just that it requires an attack roll of some sort. It shows how they can get critical hits, and sneak attacks. Oddly enough I am not finding it clearly spelled out about invocations, but they are described in some places as being similar to spells, so they probably work the same. If you have a Warlock in your game, you probably have access to Complete Arcane, but if you don't I would recommend it as a good buy.
kalyb 06-21-07, 04:02 AM	CA doesn't specifically say invocations can be used as sneak attacks. However, it does specifically state that the warlock's eldritch blast is "weaponlike".
Kouk 06-21-07, 04:17 AM	CA doesn't specifically say invocations can be used as sneak attacks. However, it does specifically state that the warlock's eldritch blast is "weaponlike". So, if it does say that somewhere, then it would work. :D
fanitullen 06-21-07, 05:59 AM	I've always learned that rays and sneak attack can be combined, at least within 30 ft. PH 175 says that if a ray deals damage, it can also score a critical hit. And it stands to reason that if it can crit, it can be sneak attacked with.
Koretsu 06-21-07, 06:01 AM	There's even a 3.0 precedent for this, actually. See Tome and Blood (page 79). Any spell that requires an attack roll and deals damage functions as weaponlike in certain respects... ...Such spells can inflict critical hits, be used in sneak attacks, and allow a ranger to use thier favored enemy bonuses. You can even use a number of combat-enhancing feats in the Player's Handbook to improve the efficiacy of weaponlike spells.
fanitullen 06-21-07, 06:02 AM	Complete Arcane page 86 answers your question: YES, you can sneak attack with eldritch blast and other rays/weaponlike spells.
lint trap 06-21-07, 09:30 AM	Though an Eldritch Blast isn't technically a ray, you can sneak attack with any weapon that requires an attack roll. This includes things like rays, Eldritch Blasts, and even alchemist's fire.
Nezkrul 06-21-07, 10:19 AM	Though an Eldritch Blast isn't technically a ray, Reread the CA, it clearly states that the Eldritch Blast is a ray. You must have missed it.
lint trap 06-21-07, 10:25 AM	Reread the CA, it clearly states that the Eldritch Blast is a ray. You must have missed it. You're right. Not sure how I missed that one.