elehants hide and bark skin [Archive] - Wizards Community

elehants hide and bark skin [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
0datdude0
08-05-07, 04:59 PM does bark skin stack with the elehants hide feat?
risner
08-05-07, 05:10 PM does bark skin stack with the elehants hide feat?

Dunno, does it?

Nothing stacks except Dodge bonus and circumstance bonuses from different circumstances.

So I suspect by your asking, they don't stack.
0datdude0
08-05-07, 05:30 PM Dunno, does it?

Nothing stacks except Dodge bonus and circumstance bonuses from different circumstances.

So I suspect by your asking, they don't stack.

The bark skin spell mentioned it is an enchancment bonus to a natural armor bonus. The EH feat just gives you a bonus of 7 ( and it goes on to say it does NOT stack with any natural armor bonus you already have.)

The reasone I ask is the wording of the barkskin spell.
ShinAkuma2
08-05-07, 11:03 PM As I recall, Hide gives a bonus, while Skin gives an enhancement to that bonus. They're specifically designed to stack, just like Skin and any creature's normal Natural Armor bonus
runestar
08-05-07, 11:08 PM IIRC, elephant's hide sets your base AC to +7, rather than increase it by 7.
Part-Human2
08-06-07, 04:19 AM Elephant Hide gives you "a natural armor bonus of 7" that "does not stack with any natural armor bonus you currently have."

That's really badly written because unnamed bonuses stack except this unnamed bonus doesn't stack with other named or unnamed. Seems like they wanted to override Natural AC instead of saying it was a "bonus"

In either case, Barkskin is a spell and it isn't dispelled when Elephant Hide is used so it would continue to provide an Enhancement bonus to the Druid's Natural AC (whatever it is, whatever the source).

On the other hand, the feat states that it doesn't stack with any other natural armor bonus and Barkskin does provide a natural armor bonus so therefore it doesn't work.

Thanks WotC!
tarkin
08-06-07, 11:35 AM No, you got it entirely wrong.

1. The feat As states provides a Natural Armor to you.

It does NOT provide a bonus to your Natural Armor.

What you thought it was trying to do is in fact EXACTLY what they said it does.

In effect, taking the feat is like buying Platemail. Platemail does not 'provide an enhancement to your armor' instead it PROVIDES the armor in the first place.

2. The spell barkskin is clear it does not provide a Natural Armor, instead it provides an enhacment bonus to your natural armor.

It is identical to having your armor ENCHANTED to be +5.
It does however explicetdly state that if you have no Natural Armor, that counts as having a Natural Armor of 0, so it can still get the bonus, so the spell still works.

--------

As such, you are ARE allowed to cast the spell and benefit directly from the spell Barkskin. But you have to do it in the right order

If you do a Barkskin +5 first you have normal skin Natural Armor +0 enchanted to +5. The Elephant Hide will NOT stack with that normal skin.

But if you do it Elephant Hide first, then Barkskin, you get Elepehant Hide +13, but it only lasts as long as the 10 minutes for the feat, then you get nothing.

Also, if you polymorph into something that already has Natural Armor it will not stack with this feat.
Part-Human2
08-06-07, 04:05 PM No, you got it entirely wrong.

1. The feat As states provides a Natural Armor to you.

It does NOT provide a bonus to your Natural Armor.

..

I quoted the feat right there. It says it provides a Natural Armor BONUS, not a Natural Armor Class. It's an unnamed bonus to Natural Armor.
ShinAkuma2
08-06-07, 05:15 PM I quoted the feat right there. It says it provides a Natural Armor BONUS, not a Natural Armor Class. It's an unnamed bonus to Natural Armor.

There's no such thing as a Natural Armor Class.

tarkin's analogy is correct: Just as armor provides an Armor Bonus to your Armor Class, Elephant's Hide provides a Natural Armor Bonus to your Armor Class. Just as Magic Vestment would enhance the Armor Bonus provided by armor, Bark Skin would enhance the Natural Armor Bonus of Elephant's Hide (or whatever is normally providing you with a Natural Armor Bonus).
risner
08-06-07, 06:31 PM Elephant Hide gives you "a natural armor bonus of 7" that "does not stack with any natural armor bonus you currently have."

That's really badly written because unnamed bonuses stack except this unnamed bonus doesn't stack with other named or unnamed.

If you you posted is what it does, then what is your problem?

It gives you a Natural Armour Bonus.

That is NOT an unnamed bonus.

In short, this is like Shield spell. Shield = Shield Bonus. Elephant Hide = Natural Bonus. Exactly the same. Would you use the same argument to suggest that Shield spell (identical to this) is similarly poorly written?

It's an unnamed bonus to Natural Armor.

Nope, you are confused. The spell provided Natural Armour just like Shield provides a Shield Bonus and Mage Armour provides an Armour bonus.
Part-Human2
08-06-07, 07:47 PM So it's a Elephant Hide is Natural Armor bonus (named bonus) to AC. Got it, I'm an idiot. So the confusion is why they are stating that it doesn't stack when we know named bonuses don't stack.

An Enhancement Bonus to Natural Armor is a named bonus to a named bonus to AC. So they both work fine.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
0datdude0 08-05-07, 04:59 PM	does bark skin stack with the elehants hide feat?
risner 08-05-07, 05:10 PM	does bark skin stack with the elehants hide feat? Dunno, does it? Nothing stacks except Dodge bonus and circumstance bonuses from different circumstances. So I suspect by your asking, they don't stack.
0datdude0 08-05-07, 05:30 PM	Dunno, does it? Nothing stacks except Dodge bonus and circumstance bonuses from different circumstances. So I suspect by your asking, they don't stack. The bark skin spell mentioned it is an enchancment bonus to a natural armor bonus. The EH feat just gives you a bonus of 7 ( and it goes on to say it does NOT stack with any natural armor bonus you already have.) The reasone I ask is the wording of the barkskin spell.
ShinAkuma2 08-05-07, 11:03 PM	As I recall, Hide gives a bonus, while Skin gives an enhancement to that bonus. They're specifically designed to stack, just like Skin and any creature's normal Natural Armor bonus
runestar 08-05-07, 11:08 PM	IIRC, elephant's hide sets your base AC to +7, rather than increase it by 7.
Part-Human2 08-06-07, 04:19 AM	Elephant Hide gives you "a natural armor bonus of 7" that "does not stack with any natural armor bonus you currently have." That's really badly written because unnamed bonuses stack except this unnamed bonus doesn't stack with other named or unnamed. Seems like they wanted to override Natural AC instead of saying it was a "bonus" In either case, Barkskin is a spell and it isn't dispelled when Elephant Hide is used so it would continue to provide an Enhancement bonus to the Druid's Natural AC (whatever it is, whatever the source). On the other hand, the feat states that it doesn't stack with any other natural armor bonus and Barkskin does provide a natural armor bonus so therefore it doesn't work. Thanks WotC!
tarkin 08-06-07, 11:35 AM	No, you got it entirely wrong. 1. The feat As states provides a Natural Armor to you. It does NOT provide a bonus to your Natural Armor. What you thought it was trying to do is in fact EXACTLY what they said it does. In effect, taking the feat is like buying Platemail. Platemail does not 'provide an enhancement to your armor' instead it PROVIDES the armor in the first place. 2. The spell barkskin is clear it does not provide a Natural Armor, instead it provides an enhacment bonus to your natural armor. It is identical to having your armor ENCHANTED to be +5. It does however explicetdly state that if you have no Natural Armor, that counts as having a Natural Armor of 0, so it can still get the bonus, so the spell still works. -------- As such, you are ARE allowed to cast the spell and benefit directly from the spell Barkskin. But you have to do it in the right order If you do a Barkskin +5 first you have normal skin Natural Armor +0 enchanted to +5. The Elephant Hide will NOT stack with that normal skin. But if you do it Elephant Hide first, then Barkskin, you get Elepehant Hide +13, but it only lasts as long as the 10 minutes for the feat, then you get nothing. Also, if you polymorph into something that already has Natural Armor it will not stack with this feat.
Part-Human2 08-06-07, 04:05 PM	No, you got it entirely wrong. 1. The feat As states provides a Natural Armor to you. It does NOT provide a bonus to your Natural Armor. .. I quoted the feat right there. It says it provides a Natural Armor BONUS, not a Natural Armor Class. It's an unnamed bonus to Natural Armor.
ShinAkuma2 08-06-07, 05:15 PM	I quoted the feat right there. It says it provides a Natural Armor BONUS, not a Natural Armor Class. It's an unnamed bonus to Natural Armor. There's no such thing as a Natural Armor Class. tarkin's analogy is correct: Just as armor provides an Armor Bonus to your Armor Class, Elephant's Hide provides a Natural Armor Bonus to your Armor Class. Just as Magic Vestment would enhance the Armor Bonus provided by armor, Bark Skin would enhance the Natural Armor Bonus of Elephant's Hide (or whatever is normally providing you with a Natural Armor Bonus).
risner 08-06-07, 06:31 PM	Elephant Hide gives you "a natural armor bonus of 7" that "does not stack with any natural armor bonus you currently have." That's really badly written because unnamed bonuses stack except this unnamed bonus doesn't stack with other named or unnamed. If you you posted is what it does, then what is your problem? It gives you a Natural Armour Bonus. That is NOT an unnamed bonus. In short, this is like Shield spell. Shield = Shield Bonus. Elephant Hide = Natural Bonus. Exactly the same. Would you use the same argument to suggest that Shield spell (identical to this) is similarly poorly written? It's an unnamed bonus to Natural Armor. Nope, you are confused. The spell provided Natural Armour just like Shield provides a Shield Bonus and Mage Armour provides an Armour bonus.
Part-Human2 08-06-07, 07:47 PM	So it's a Elephant Hide is Natural Armor bonus (named bonus) to AC. Got it, I'm an idiot. So the confusion is why they are stating that it doesn't stack when we know named bonuses don't stack. An Enhancement Bonus to Natural Armor is a named bonus to a named bonus to AC. So they both work fine.