Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Firedale 02-20-08, 06:35 AM	Just a question... The question I want to ask is concerning the last ability of the Elusive Target feat... When I provoke an attack of opportunity, if it misses, I gain a free trip attempt against the opponent Will this ability also work with the part of the Improved Trip feat that allows me a free automatic attack when I trip an opponent, if I haven't used a standard action that round? As an aside as to how this answer may affect gameplay Could I Attack someone, move away 10ft, thus provoking, they miss, I trip, and then attack them again, since I tripped... then I'm 10ft away. Could I run down the middle of a 15 foot wide hallway with people on both sides, provoking from them all and trip them all and attack them all?
Tordak 02-20-08, 08:51 AM	Yes it would, nothing in the trip or the improved trip feat description says it need to be a standard action (if I remember correctly, I might have missed something). Like attack of opportunity, the ability interups the 'normal' flow of even. So you would start you move, be attacked which happens before your move, make your free trip attempt, make your free attack, then finish your move. There might have been a FAQ about something similar saying you'd not get the extra attack, but I'm not sure and I don't see why they would rule that way. All I'm saying is you get to do what you thought you could do. For the last question, I'm not sure cause I don't remember the details of the feat. If you do it for free (not consuming AoO doing so), you could, but your DM might limit the number of similar free action you can take in a round.
mplindustries 02-20-08, 05:37 PM	Just a question... The question I want to ask is concerning the last ability of the Elusive Target feat... When I provoke an attack of opportunity, if it misses, I gain a free trip attempt against the opponent Will this ability also work with the part of the Improved Trip feat that allows me a free automatic attack when I trip an opponent, if I haven't used a standard action that round? Could I Attack someone, move away 10ft, thus provoking, they miss, I trip, and then attack them again, since I tripped... then I'm 10ft away. Could I run down the middle of a 15 foot wide hallway with people on both sides, provoking from them all and trip them all and attack them all? Its funny, when I first started to respond, I was going to explain why it should work by RAW because you weren't actually 10' away when you provoked, you were still 5', and the AoO happened just before you moved. However, when i looked up Improved Trip to get a quote to support it, I found I was actually wrong. Improved Trip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTrip) reads: "If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt." So while you would get the +4 bonus to the actual trip attempt from Improved Trip, you are not actually "tripping them in melee combat." Instead, it is a free trip triggered by something else. Thats kind of sad, I really liked the idea of this. You could, however, trip anyone and everyone who misses you during your movement though. There is no limit on that.
jaelis 02-20-08, 05:47 PM	People argue about this a lot. My own opinion is that the "as if you hadn't used your attack on the trip attempt" means that you only get the free attack if the trip is replacing an attack you could have had.
Tordak 02-21-08, 08:42 AM	I disagree with mplindustries about the 'in melee combat' part. You're in melee combat when you're fighting, not only when you're the one attacking. If you're attack by a melee weapon, you are also in melee combat. You must however threaten to make you melee attack (if you're using a bow you won't be able to take advantage of this ability, same if you're attack by a reach melee weapon and don't have one yourself). I would wonder about the meaning of 'as if you hadn't use your attack', because there is a difference between an attack action and a free attack, but since trip replaces any melee attack, I would say this qualifies as an attack.
jaelis 02-21-08, 08:51 AM	...but since trip replaces any melee attack, I would say this qualifies as an attack. In this particular case though, it is not replacing a melee attack... if you didn't take the trip, you would have nothing. (Again though, that's just my opinion about what it means... trying to clarify my reasoning, not argue with you if you get it but just don't buy it.)
JamesMaissen 02-21-08, 11:17 AM	Just a question... The question I want to ask is concerning the last ability of the Elusive Target feat... When I provoke an attack of opportunity, if it misses, I gain a free trip attempt against the opponent Will this ability also work with the part of the Improved Trip feat that allows me a free automatic attack when I trip an opponent, if I haven't used a standard action that round? No there is a difference between trip attempt and trip attack. A wolf (or similar creature) does not get an extra attack from having the improved trip feat (assuming it could qualify for it.. like being awakened or a druid wildshaped, etc). The line in the feat is also reinforcing here. In fact I believe it was added to the 3.5 description to answer this very thing (pity they didn't do the same with cleave) as this is a question that dates back to at least Sword and Fist. -James
sally_jones 02-21-08, 11:33 AM	elusive target is the sweetest feat to take as a dervish